ok so spacers are old hat..

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Paul Watt, Oct 5, 2005.

  1. Paul Watt

    Paul Watt Guest

    hi,
    Seeing as everyone here poured scorn on my use of a transparant spacer
    image, what would you guys sugest i use instead?
    The only way I can think of is to put them each in a <div> and position them
    on the page.
    Maybe styling a <p> tag or something?
    Situation: I'm trying to seperate two different
    tables in a cloumn vertically.

    cheers!
    Paul
     
    Paul Watt, Oct 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. "Paul Watt" <> wrote in
    news:di0hfv$uql$:

    > hi,
    > Seeing as everyone here poured scorn on my use of a transparant spacer
    > image, what would you guys sugest i use instead?
    > The only way I can think of is to put them each in a <div> and
    > position them on the page.
    > Maybe styling a <p> tag or something?
    > Situation: I'm trying to seperate two different
    > tables in a cloumn vertically.


    Have you tried using a transparant spacer image ?


    <BFG>

    Sorry, couldn't resist :)

    Seriously: If it works for you, go for it - there's about a million other,
    worse, transgressions in web design that are far worse.

    I've found that in several applications, using a spacer image can often be
    the only way to get a layout *just* right when it comes to cross-browser
    compatibility :(



    --
    Marc Bissonnette
    CGI / Database / Web Management Tools: http://www.internalysis.com
    Looking for a new ISP? http://www.canadianisp.com
     
    Marc Bissonnette, Oct 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Writing in news:alt.html,alt.websites,alt.www.webmaster
    From the safety of the cafeteria
    Paul Watt <> said:

    > hi,


    How do you do?

    > Seeing as everyone here poured scorn on my use of a transparant spacer
    > image, what would you guys sugest i use instead?


    margin?

    > ...
    > Situation: I'm trying to seperate two different
    > tables in a cloumn vertically.


    perhaps a URL would help?

    --
    William Tasso

    .... we can't pick up the fragments of our broken friendship till you pick
    up the fragments of your broken teeth ... (Donna in tpol&apoc)
     
    William Tasso, Oct 5, 2005
    #3
  4. |-|erc wrote:

    > "Paul Watt" <> wrote in ...
    > : hi,
    > : Seeing as everyone here poured scorn on my use of a transparant spacer
    > : image, what would you guys sugest i use instead?
    > : The only way I can think of is to put them each in a <div> and position them
    > : on the page.
    > : Maybe styling a <p> tag or something?
    > : Situation: I'm trying to seperate two different
    > : tables in a cloumn vertically.
    >
    > <tr height=50>

    <snip>
    height attribute is deprecated, give us a URL and we can best give you a
    solution


    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Oct 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Paul Watt wrote:

    > Seeing as everyone here poured scorn on my use of a transparant spacer
    > image, what would you guys sugest i use instead?


    I answered that when I poured scored on your spacer image:

    "Apply a margin-bottom."

    -- <dhum2s$ikp$1$>

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Oct 5, 2005
    #5
  6. On Wed, 5 Oct 2005, |-|erc wrote:

    > spacers can be a last resort if you want to stop a fluid design from
    > shrinking too much


    Without seeing a concrete demonstration of what you're trying to
    avoid, and just how effective your "solution" would be in various
    browsing situations, my only comment would have to be that you'd do
    better to define some margins or padding with CSS - and stop worrying
    about what this or that browser might do in the hands of this or that
    reader.

    I have been known to insert the odd &nbsp; in some text for what
    seemed to be adequate reasons at the time, but I wouldn't recommend it
    as a general technique. Spacer images even LESS so. IMHO anyway.
     
    Alan J. Flavell, Oct 5, 2005
    #6
  7. Paul Watt

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Paul Watt quothed:

    > hi,
    > Seeing as everyone here poured scorn on my use of a transparant spacer
    > image, what would you guys sugest i use instead?
    > The only way I can think of is to put them each in a <div> and position them
    > on the page.


    Yeah, if you have to, put at least one in a div and pad the div.

    From your previous, I gather that the sole objective is to vertically
    space 2 tables???


    > Maybe styling a <p> tag or something?
    > Situation: I'm trying to seperate two different
    > tables in a cloumn vertically.
    >
    > cheers!
    > Paul
    >
    >
    >


    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Neredbojias, Oct 5, 2005
    #7
  8. |-|erc wrote:

    > : height attribute is deprecated,


    > stop giving phony advice.


    That wasn't advice, it was a statement[1]. The advice "don't use the height
    attribute" could be implied from it, but wasn't actually stated.

    "Don't use the height attribute" is, however, good advice in this instance,
    and is certainly not phony (unlike your name ("Pipe dash pipe erc"!) and
    email address).


    [1] Not actually a correct one as it happens, HTML didn't have a height
    attribute for <tr> elements in the first place, so such an attribute
    couldn't be deprecated.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Oct 6, 2005
    #8
  9. David Dorward wrote:

    <snip>
    > [1] Not actually a correct one as it happens, HTML didn't have a height
    > attribute for <tr> elements in the first place, so such an attribute
    > couldn't be deprecated.
    >


    Misread, thought he wrote TH not TR. I guess *I* was giving the phony
    advice ;-)

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Oct 6, 2005
    #9
  10. On 06/10/2005 18:47, |-|erc wrote:

    > "David Dorward" <> wrote in


    [snip]

    >> [...] HTML didn't have a height attribute for <tr> elements in the
    >> first place, so such an attribute couldn't be deprecated.

    >
    > [Jonathan Little] said height [was deprecated], not <tr height>.


    His words were written directly after you presented a table row start
    tag containing a height attribute. I don't think the context could have
    been much clearer.

    > and if you claim height is deprecated cite something,


    David didn't claim that height (applied to a TR element) was deprecated;
    Jonathan did. David said, quite correctly, that it didn't exist. See for
    yourself. Read the 'official' Strict or Transitional DTDs (table-related
    elements are near the end), or look at the attribute index after the
    appendices. You won't find the attribute applied to TR elements in either.

    [snip]

    Mike

    --
    Michael Winter
    Prefix subject with [News] before replying by e-mail.
     
    Michael Winter, Oct 6, 2005
    #10
  11. |-|erc wrote:

    > "David Dorward" <> wrote in
    > : |-|erc wrote:
    > :
    > : > : height attribute is deprecated,
    > :
    > : > stop giving phony advice.
    > :
    > : That wasn't advice, it was a statement[1]. The advice "don't use the height
    > : attribute" could be implied from it, but wasn't actually stated.
    > :
    > : "Don't use the height attribute" is, however, good advice in this instance,
    > : and is certainly not phony (unlike your name ("Pipe dash pipe erc"!) and
    > : email address).
    > :
    > :
    > : [1] Not actually a correct one as it happens, HTML didn't have a height
    > : attribute for <tr> elements in the first place, so such an attribute
    > : couldn't be deprecated.
    >
    > he said height, not <tr height>. and if you claim height is deprecated cite something,
    > because I've never heard such a total figment of anyones imagination like yours. maybe its a tumor?


    Pardon but no, you Herc said '<tr height=50>'

    http://www.message-id.net/4343d2ba$0$13403$

    I misread your TR as TH (Table Heading) which like TD (Table Data) use
    to allow a height attribute, but is now deprecated in HTML 4.01

    http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/tables.html#edef-TD

    Ready for a MRI now are we? ;-)

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Oct 6, 2005
    #11
  12. Paul Watt

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, |-|erc quothed:

    > "David Dorward" <> wrote in
    > : |-|erc wrote:
    > :
    > : > : height attribute is deprecated,
    > :
    > : > stop giving phony advice.
    > :
    > : That wasn't advice, it was a statement[1]. The advice "don't use the height
    > : attribute" could be implied from it, but wasn't actually stated.
    > :
    > : "Don't use the height attribute" is, however, good advice in this instance,
    > : and is certainly not phony (unlike your name ("Pipe dash pipe erc"!) and
    > : email address).
    > :
    > :
    > : [1] Not actually a correct one as it happens, HTML didn't have a height
    > : attribute for <tr> elements in the first place, so such an attribute
    > : couldn't be deprecated.
    >
    > he said height, not <tr height>. and if you claim height is deprecated cite something,
    > because I've never heard such a total figment of anyones imagination like yours. maybe its a tumor?


    *Height is deprecated.*

    "Twinkle, twinkle, little star.
    How I wonder where you are.
    Only deprecated high,
    So you'll fall down by-the-by."

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
     
    Neredbojias, Oct 6, 2005
    #12
  13. Writing in news:alt.html,alt.www.webmaster
    From the safety of the Read Free News cafeteria
    |-|erc <> said:

    > ...
    > style="margins:0" is also redundant,


    redundant? never heard of it.

    > but its not deprecated simply because its the new way to do it.


    obviously incredibly new: http://tinyurl.com/8xygl

    --
    William Tasso

    .... we can't pick up the fragments of our broken friendship till you pick
    up the fragments of your broken teeth ... (Donna in tpol&apoc)
     
    William Tasso, Oct 6, 2005
    #13
  14. |-|erc wrote:

    > Here's your problem
    >
    > w3
    > Deprecated
    > A deprecated element or attribute is one that has been outdated by newer constructs. Deprecated elements are defined in the
    > reference manual in appropriate locations, but are clearly marked as deprecated. Deprecated elements may become obsolete in future
    > versions of HTML.
    >
    > Answers
    > deprecate
    > To make invalid or obsolete by removing or flagging the item. When commands or statements in a language are planned for deletion in
    > future releases of the compiler or rendering engine, they are said to be deprecated. Programmers should begin to remove them from
    > the source code in subsequent revisions of their programs
    >
    >
    > Any HTML that a class can achieve is by definition redundant, so by definition it MAY become obselete
    > (as its function is doubled up)
    >
    > So because w3 want attention, they call 'redundant' 'deprecated' as if they control HTML, but their definition
    > of deprecated is weak, all they say is it MAY become obsolete, meaning its redundant. The real meaning
    > is it WILL become obselete.
    >
    > So all you nitwits are reading about redundant code going..... its deprecated!
    >
    > Of course, considering style sheets are just a secondary system, redundancy is fine and so are the original HTML tags.
    >
    > style="margins:0" is also redundant, but its not deprecated simply because its the new way to do it.
    > "been outdated by newer constructs"
    >
    > Herc
    >
    >
    >


    Yeah, oooooookay... <backs away slowly for he may be accompanied by
    rabbit monkeys armed with nuclear bananas>

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Oct 6, 2005
    #14
  15. Paul Watt

    |-|erc Guest

    "Paul Watt" <> wrote in ...
    : hi,
    : Seeing as everyone here poured scorn on my use of a transparant spacer
    : image, what would you guys sugest i use instead?
    : The only way I can think of is to put them each in a <div> and position them
    : on the page.
    : Maybe styling a <p> tag or something?
    : Situation: I'm trying to seperate two different
    : tables in a cloumn vertically.

    <tr height=50>

    spacers can be a last resort if you want to stop a fluid design from shrinking too much

    Herc
     
    |-|erc, Oct 6, 2005
    #15
  16. Paul Watt

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Paul Watt wrote:

    > Situation: I'm trying to seperate two different
    > tables in a cloumn vertically.


    Add a margin to each:

    TABLE {
    margin: 1em 0;
    }

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Oct 6, 2005
    #16
  17. Paul Watt

    Toby Inkster Guest

    |-|erc wrote:

    > w3 are calling everything redundant deprecated.


    No -- there are plenty of redundant things that aren't deprecated.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Oct 6, 2005
    #17
  18. |-|erc wrote:
    > "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote in
    > :
    > : Yeah, oooooookay... <backs away slowly for he may be accompanied by
    > : rabbit monkeys armed with nuclear bananas>
    > :
    >
    > What I meant to say was, just because its redundant doesn't mean its going to be obselete, (deprecated).
    > w3 are calling everything redundant deprecated.
    >
    > Are you all involved in some movement to change HTML or something, forcing people to use style sheets?
    > Getting more programming work perhaps?
    >
    > Herc
    >
    >
    >


    Actually when you start exploring CSS you will being to appreciate how
    separating the style from content can save a lot of work and code.
    Getting a website full of 'bgcolor', 'align' and 'font' and 'table's and
    the client says 'I wish it were green with...' Changing 1 stylesheet vs
    all those pages...


    Take a gander at:

    http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/alldesigns/

    Oh and BTW that was supposed to be *rabid*, way too late last night!

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Oct 6, 2005
    #18
  19. Paul Watt

    GreyWyvern Guest

    And lo, Jonathan N. Little didst speak in alt.html,alt.www.webmaster:
    > |-|erc wrote:
    >> "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote...
    >>
    >>> Yeah, oooooookay... <backs away slowly for he may be accompanied by
    >>> rabbit monkeys armed with nuclear bananas>

    >>
    >> What I meant to say was...

    >
    > Oh and BTW that was supposed to be *rabid*, way too late last night!


    "Rabbit monkeys" makes for a more amusing mental image ;)

    Grey

    --
    The technical axiom that nothing is impossible sinisterly implies the
    pitfall corollory that nothing is ridiculous.
    - http://www.greywyvern.com/orca#ring - Orca Ringmaker: Host a webring
    from your website!
     
    GreyWyvern, Oct 6, 2005
    #19
  20. GreyWyvern wrote:

    > And lo, Jonathan N. Little didst speak in alt.html,alt.www.webmaster:
    >
    >> |-|erc wrote:
    >>
    >>> "Jonathan N. Little" <> wrote...
    >>>
    >>>> Yeah, oooooookay... <backs away slowly for he may be accompanied by
    >>>> rabbit monkeys armed with nuclear bananas>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> What I meant to say was...

    >>
    >>
    >> Oh and BTW that was supposed to be *rabid*, way too late last night!

    >
    >
    > "Rabbit monkeys" makes for a more amusing mental image ;)
    >
    > Grey
    >

    Except there is no defense against 'rabid monkeys', with 'rabbit
    monkeys' you can always distract them with carrots! ;-D

    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
     
    Jonathan N. Little, Oct 6, 2005
    #20
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