"Open letter" to jake

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Sarah Wren, May 27, 2012.

  1. Sarah Wren

    Sarah Wren Guest

    Give it up. You do not have the time.
    Sarah Wren, May 27, 2012
    #1
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  2. Sarah Wren

    jacob navia Guest

    Le 27/05/12 12:26, Sarah Wren a écrit :
    > Give it up. You do not have the time.
    >
    >

    Hi "Sarah"

    I am profoundly touched by your interest in the time I have.

    Thanks a lot but I have to confess you something: I decide
    what do I do with my time.

    Pathetic...

    "Jake"
    jacob navia, May 27, 2012
    #2
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  3. Sarah Wren

    Sarah Wren Guest

    "jacob navia" <> wrote in message
    news:jpu1l8$ubn$...
    > Le 27/05/12 12:26, Sarah Wren a écrit :
    >> Give it up. You do not have the time.
    >>
    >>

    > Hi "Sarah"
    >
    > I am profoundly touched by your interest in the time I have.
    >
    > Thanks a lot but I have to confess you something: I decide
    > what do I do with my time.
    >
    > Pathetic...


    I am or you are? Explain.
    Sarah Wren, May 29, 2012
    #3
  4. Sarah Wren

    Sarah Wren Guest

    "jacob navia" <> wrote in message
    news:jpu1l8$ubn$...
    > Le 27/05/12 12:26, Sarah Wren a écrit :
    >> Give it up. You do not have the time.
    >>
    >>

    > Hi "Sarah"
    >
    > I am profoundly touched by your interest in the time I have.


    I'll tell Jesus about that. Remember him? He died for your sins.

    >
    > Thanks a lot but I have to confess you something:


    You mistake me for your priest.

    > I decide
    > what do I do with my time.


    That is a lie, and you know it.
    Sarah Wren, May 29, 2012
    #4
  5. Sarah Wren

    Sarah Wren Guest

    "jacob navia" <> wrote in message
    news:jpu1l8$ubn$...
    > Le 27/05/12 12:26, Sarah Wren a écrit :
    >> Give it up. You do not have the time.
    >>
    >>

    > Hi "Sarah"
    >
    > I am profoundly touched by your interest in the time I have.
    >
    > Thanks a lot but I have to confess you something: I decide
    > what do I do with my time.
    >
    > Pathetic...
    >
    > "Jake"
    >
    >


    I see you flail wildly. That said, I see you noted in a book as some stupid
    **** that helped another write a book!? You would not be happy if I offered
    you a job, and I wouldn't do that even if I had the budget.

    I am bad at math. (I reject the second chapter of compiler books). I do a
    little and then some more, isn't that the hardest part? Don't you want to be
    that and don't I **** up your plans of such celebrity at every step. I said
    5 years. It's been 2 now or 3? But you were all on about the imminence of
    your inventions. Did you invent anything? Don't come back at me and say
    "read my paper", I read it. It would cost you a lot of money for me to
    critique, but of course I won't do that.

    Are you playing on the lost scribes? What did you invent Mr. Navia?
    (rhetorical).

    I am suggesting that maybe if you stop "shooting from the hip" (yes, at your
    age), well I'm not suggesting that at all, because of course I am much older
    and wiser than your. Save for that, you can't put leggos together in a
    meanigful way, but I, of course, can...

    Anyway, what the **** are you crying about Jacob Navia? You got your name in
    a book. What the **** else you want? Hmm?
    Sarah Wren, May 29, 2012
    #5
  6. "Sarah Wren" <> writes:
    [...]

    *plonk*

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    Will write code for food.
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, May 30, 2012
    #6
  7. In article <>,
    Keith Thompson <> wrote:
    >"Sarah Wren" <> writes:
    >[...]
    >
    >*plonk*


    Keith, Keith, Keith...

    How many times I gotta tell ya? Like Fight Club, ya don't *talk* about yer
    killfile - or who's in it or who's not in it. Spoils the whole effect.

    --
    > No, I haven't, that's why I'm asking questions. If you won't help me,
    > why don't you just go find your lost manhood elsewhere.


    CLC in a nutshell.
    Kenny McCormack, May 30, 2012
    #7
  8. Sarah Wren

    Quentin Pope Guest

    On Tue, 29 May 2012 01:34:28 -0600, Sarah Wren wrote:
    > "jacob navia" <> wrote in message
    > news:jpu1l8$ubn$...
    >> Le 27/05/12 12:26, Sarah Wren a écrit :
    >>> Give it up. You do not have the time.
    >>>
    >>>

    >> Hi "Sarah"
    >>
    >> I am profoundly touched by your interest in the time I have.
    >>
    >> Thanks a lot but I have to confess you something: I decide what do I do
    >> with my time.
    >>
    >> Pathetic...

    >
    > I am or you are? Explain.


    What puzzles me is the thinking behind Mr Navia's obsession with re-
    inventing C++ badly.

    Judging from his behavior in this group, he is mainly interested in
    making as much money for himself as possible. Maybe he has a secret
    patent on his "containers library" and his hope is to get it standardized
    then sue other compiler vendors? It's a delusional plan, but his posts in
    this group suggest he is a delusional person in many respects.

    Or maybe it's just an eccentric hobby for him.

    //QP
    Quentin Pope, May 30, 2012
    #8
  9. Sarah Wren

    Eric Sosman Guest

    On 5/30/2012 2:15 PM, Quentin Pope wrote:
    > [... stupid strawman smear ...]
    > //QP


    Quickly Plonked.

    --
    Eric Sosman
    d
    Eric Sosman, May 30, 2012
    #9
  10. Sarah Wren

    James Kuyper Guest

    On 05/30/2012 02:15 PM, Quentin Pope wrote:
    ....
    > What puzzles me is the thinking behind Mr Navia's obsession with re-
    > inventing C++ badly.


    I have to agree.

    > Judging from his behavior in this group, he is mainly interested in
    > making as much money for himself as possible. ...


    I've seen no evidence to support that judgment. His compiler is
    available free to non-commercial users. Others have occasionally talked
    about such things as the responsibilities he bears toward his paying
    customers - to which he has responded by vehemently denying having any
    paying customers. I pointed out that this logically implies that he has
    never actually succeeded in convincing anybody to actually pay for a
    commercial license. He responded with scatology and an assertion that he
    does have customers, but failed to address the issue of whether or not
    he has any paying customers. I assume that he does have some paying
    customers, and was exaggerating when he claimed to have none.

    > Or maybe it's just an eccentric hobby for him.


    I think he honestly considers the language compiled by lcc-win to be an
    improvement over both C and C++, and is promoting it for that reason,
    and not for his own monetary advantage.
    James Kuyper, May 30, 2012
    #10
  11. Sarah Wren

    jacob navia Guest

    Le 30/05/12 21:46, James Kuyper a écrit :
    > I've seen no evidence to support that judgment. His compiler is
    > available free to non-commercial users. Others have occasionally talked
    > about such things as the responsibilities he bears toward his paying
    > customers - to which he has responded by vehemently denying having any
    > paying customers. I pointed out that this logically implies that he has
    > never actually succeeded in convincing anybody to actually pay for a
    > commercial license. He responded with scatology and an assertion that he
    > does have customers, but failed to address the issue of whether or not
    > he has any paying customers. I assume that he does have some paying
    > customers, and was exaggerating when he claimed to have none.


    I do not see any point in giving to this group a detailed list of my
    customers so that they can start sending them email messages denigrating
    me, telling them lies, and trying to destroy me as they try in this
    group to destroy me.

    This "Sarah Wren" troll speaks about me in the worst terms, but you
    do not deemed necesssary to answer that, why would you?

    It is just OK to insult jacob navia, the "evil doer". since he
    is not GNU, refuses to pass to C++ and insists that C is a worthwhile
    programming language.

    I am not reinventing C++. I am proving that C is as good as C++
    to program a container library, and I am proving it by doing it,
    not just speaking about it.
    jacob navia, May 30, 2012
    #11
  12. Sarah Wren

    Stefan Ram Guest

    C's share (was: ...)

    jacob navia <> writes:
    >It is just OK to insult jacob navia, the "evil doer". since he
    >is not GNU, refuses to pass to C++ and insists that C is a worthwhile
    >programming language.


    C++ has a share of of 9.825 % at TIOBE, down from 17.5 % in 2004,
    while C now has 17,346 % and is at position 1. So there is little
    need to convince anyone of a language that already is recognized
    as the leading language.

    http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html

    C++ might be dying and todays template-ridden C++ code might
    become tomorrows unmaintainable legacy nightmare.

    If you have some kind of »competition«, then it's called
    »Objective-C«, look at that chart again:

    http://www.tiobe.com/content/paperinfo/tpci/images/tpci_trends.png
    Stefan Ram, May 30, 2012
    #12
  13. Sarah Wren

    Noob Guest

    Re: C's share

    Stefan Ram wrote:

    > If you have some kind of "competition", then it's called "Objective-C"


    Thanks to the Apple lemmings. Meaning the popularity of Objective-C
    is just a fad.
    Noob, May 30, 2012
    #13
  14. Quentin Pope <> writes:
    [...]
    > What puzzles me is the thinking behind Mr Navia's obsession with re-
    > inventing C++ badly.

    [...]

    Quentin, even assuming there's some validity to what you write
    about jacob, you lose a great deal of credibility by posting it as
    a followup to an obvious troll.

    (Not that your thoughts about jacob were either particularly credible
    or relevant here in the first place.)

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    Will write code for food.
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, May 30, 2012
    #14
  15. בת×ריך ×™×•× ×¨×‘×™×¢×™, 30 במ××™ 2012 20:46:04 UTC+1, מ×ת James Kuyper:
    >
    > I think he honestly considers the language compiled by lcc-win to be an
    > improvement over both C and C++, and is promoting it for that reason,
    > and not for his own monetary advantage.
    >

    I think Jacob likes to eat occasionally. Maybe even likes the odd beer. So he's decided to do that by selling compilers. The problem is, he has to compete with high quality free offerings, even from Microsoft. So one option is to offer extensions to the language that no-one else has. Then commercialusers will possibly pay for a licence, and he can have those beers.
    The extensions don't have to be better than standard C in any absolute sense. They just have to offer an advantage to enough people to form a customerbase, for Jacob's strategy to be reasonable.
    Malcolm McLean, May 31, 2012
    #15
  16. Sarah Wren

    James Kuyper Guest

    On 05/31/2012 01:03 AM, Malcolm McLean wrote:
    ....
    > I think Jacob likes to eat occasionally. Maybe even likes the odd
    > beer. So he's decided to do that by selling compilers. The problem
    > is, he has to compete with high quality free offerings, even from
    > Microsoft. So one option is to offer extensions to the language that
    > no-one else has. Then commercial users will possibly pay for a
    > licence, and he can have those beers. The extensions don't have to be
    > better than standard C in any absolute sense. They just have to offer
    > an advantage to enough people to form a customer base, for Jacob's
    > strategy to be reasonable.


    What you're suggesting is called "niche marketing", and it can be
    profitable, but only if the niche you're trying to exploit is big
    enough. Producing random extensions in the vague hopes that someone
    might like them would be a good way to go broke fast. Possibly that is
    exactly what is going on, which would explain his foul moods, but I
    don't think so. The fact that he's still in business implies that he's
    meeting at least some people's needs; of course, the fact that it has
    remained a one-man operation for so long implies an upper limit on how
    profitable the business has been.

    I don't get the impression that jacob is targeting any specific niche;
    he seems to believe that everyone should want to use his extensions. He
    could be lying, but I think he honestly believes that.
    --
    James Kuyper
    James Kuyper, May 31, 2012
    #16
  17. Sarah Wren

    Quentin Pope Guest

    On Wed, 30 May 2012 15:06:21 -0700, Keith Thompson wrote:
    > Quentin Pope <> writes: [...]
    >> What puzzles me is the thinking behind Mr Navia's obsession with re-
    >> inventing C++ badly.

    > [...]
    >
    > Quentin, even assuming there's some validity to what you write about
    > jacob, you lose a great deal of credibility by posting it as a followup
    > to an obvious troll.
    >
    > (Not that your thoughts about jacob were either particularly credible or
    > relevant here in the first place.)


    Keith

    A fair point. In fact I was hoping to steer the thread, albeit a thread
    started with a trollish post, into a more constructive direction.

    I'm genuinely interested to understand Mr Navia's motivations. He is
    obviously an intelligent person, yet sometimes he comes across as someone
    living in an alternate reality, so delusional is his view of his own role
    in the development of C.

    It's similar to the way a large number of otherwise sensible and
    reasonable people claim to believe in christianity or other religious
    hocus-pocus. I find that willful self-delusion is also fascinating to
    study.

    //QP
    Quentin Pope, May 31, 2012
    #17
  18. Quentin Pope <> writes:
    [...]
    > A fair point. In fact I was hoping to steer the thread, albeit a thread
    > started with a trollish post, into a more constructive direction.
    >
    > I'm genuinely interested to understand Mr Navia's motivations. He is
    > obviously an intelligent person, yet sometimes he comes across as someone
    > living in an alternate reality, so delusional is his view of his own role
    > in the development of C.


    Any reasonable person would take that as a personal insult. I have
    to seriously doubt that you're trying to elicit information.

    > It's similar to the way a large number of otherwise sensible and
    > reasonable people claim to believe in christianity or other religious
    > hocus-pocus. I find that willful self-delusion is also fascinating to
    > study.


    I am now nearly certain that you're not trying to engage in any kind
    of constructive discussion -- or, if you are, that you're very bad
    at it.

    My suggestion: Take a few minutes to step away from your keyboard
    and consider whether insulting people's deeply held beliefs on a
    topic that has absolutely nothing to do with C can possibly lead
    to anything useful. (I have no objection to discussing religion,
    but this is not the place for it.)

    Are you trying to engage in constructive discussion, or are you
    just showing off how reasonable you think you are?

    (I may have opinions on some or all of the points you raise; I
    will not discuss them here, nor will I continue this discussion
    for much longer.)

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <http://www.ghoti.net/~kst>
    Will write code for food.
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, May 31, 2012
    #18
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