Open Source quality better then closed?

E

Elhanan

hi...

i just wondered, does the fact you write a product as open source,
forces you to write better code, in the hopes (fears?) that who ever
may see you code in the future will be impressed (shocked?)
 
E

Ed Kirwan

Elhanan said:
hi...

i just wondered, does the fact you write a product as open source,
forces you to write better code, in the hopes (fears?) that who ever
may see you code in the future will be impressed (shocked?)

No.
 
O

Oliver Wong

Ed Kirwan said:

To expand on that a bit, while it certainly is no guarantee of better
code, those hopes and fears may be a factor. Another is that closed source
software is typically written by people who code for money, whereas open
source software is typically written by people who code 'cause they love to
code.

- Oliver
 
T

Thomas Fritsch

Elhanan said:
i just wondered, does the fact you write a product as open source,
forces you to write better code, in the hopes (fears?) that who ever
may see you code in the future will be impressed (shocked?)
No, not necessarily. In my opinion it is not primarily a question of
open or closed source, but more a question of whether code-reviews are
part of the development/maintenance process or not. Note that a
closed-source project may or may not have code-reviews. The same applies
to an open-source project.
 
A

Amfur Kilnem

Elhanan said:
hi...

i just wondered, does the fact you write a product as open source,
forces you to write better code, in the hopes (fears?) that who ever
may see you code in the future will be impressed (shocked?)

Authors of open source programs do it for the kudos. Their primary
motivation is to impress people by adding one "cool feature" after another.
Most can't be bothered to fix bugs -- adding yet more "cool features" is way
more fun. The result is feature-laden programs that are buggy as hell.

Take OpenOffice, for example. I won't use that program any more. Each time
that I have used it, I have been rewarded by it simply vanishing without
trace, taking my document with it.
 
D

Daniel Dyer

hi...

i just wondered, does the fact you write a product as open source,
forces you to write better code, in the hopes (fears?) that who ever
may see you code in the future will be impressed (shocked?)

You'd hope so, but it doesn't seem to be the case. However, there is some
pretty poor code out there in some high-profile projects.

See http://www.jroller.com/page/fate/20060420 (contains strong language)..

Dan.
 
O

Oliver Wong

Amfur Kilnem said:
Authors of open source programs do it for the kudos. Their primary
motivation is to impress people by adding one "cool feature" after
another. Most can't be bothered to fix bugs -- adding yet more "cool
features" is way more fun. The result is feature-laden programs that are
buggy as hell.

Generalizations like these tend to have many exceptions. There are very
stable open source programs out there as well. Examples: Linux, Apache
HTTPD, Eclipse, Hibernate, phpBB, Azureus, Firefox, Thunderbird, GAIM,
ZSNES, BSD, etc.

Some projects take bug reports very seriously, with their developers
taking an oath to prioritize the elimination of bugs over the introduction
of new features. Also, because of the open source nature, it's possible for
the users to contribute bug fixes too. I've done it a couple of times for
some of the Java applications I've used.

- Oliver
 
T

Timo Stamm

Oliver said:
To expand on that a bit, while it certainly is no guarantee of better
code, those hopes and fears may be a factor. Another is that closed
source software is typically written by people who code for money,
whereas open source software is typically written by people who code
'cause they love to code.

People who code for money do not necessarily write better code than
people who just love to code. In fact, I think that you have to get paid
*and* love to code to achive the best possible quality.

Yes, there is a lot of open source software written by non-professionals
that is of very low quality. But how does one know whether the closed
source competition is any better?


Timo
 
P

Patricia Shanahan

Timo said:
People who code for money do not necessarily write better code than
people who just love to code. In fact, I think that you have to get paid
*and* love to code to achive the best possible quality.

Yes, there is a lot of open source software written by non-professionals
that is of very low quality. But how does one know whether the closed
source competition is any better?
....

I don't think there is any automatic answer in either direction. You MAY
have more recourse if paid software does not do what it is supposed to
do, depending on license terms, contracted support etc.

Development processes are often designed to ensure that more than one
person sees each piece of code before it is shipped. Traditional,
heavyweight processes include coding reviews. Extreme programming uses
pair programmer, so that two programmers consider each line as it is
being typed.

Patricia
 
M

Monique Y. Mudama

hi...

i just wondered, does the fact you write a product as open source,
forces you to write better code, in the hopes (fears?) that who ever
may see you code in the future will be impressed (shocked?)

I don't think there's any one answer to this, just as not every
programmer has exactly the same personality and motivations.
 
S

Scott Ellsworth

Elhanan said:
i just wondered, does the fact you write a product as open source,
forces you to write better code, in the hopes (fears?) that who ever
may see you code in the future will be impressed (shocked?)

For me, this is not a motivator. What makes me write good code is,
well, pride in workmanship. Occasionally, I have written something ugly
in order to get the overall structure to a working state, but those tend
to be pretty well documented. In the main, I want to have written
something to be proud of, whether it is going on my hard drive for me,
on the Alodar server for others here, to a client for a paid project, or
to an open source project for all to see.

Every line of code you write is a an expression of an idea, using time
you will never, ever get back. It thus behooves you to write the best
stuff you can. Since life is a series of trade offs, people optimize
for different things at different times - speed, space, prior knowledge,
what they want to learn next, but the wise are aware of that, and at
least try to select the optimization mix based on real needs, rather
than the voices in their head.

If I know something is going into an open source project, I may spend
more time making it maintainable, as many such projects have a wide
array of contributors. I may also pick an implementation method that I
judge least likely to cause controversy, as time spent arguing about
trivia is time spent not fixing important things.

I may also have different amounts of time to spend, if I am working on
my own time, as opposed to working for a client.

If public acclaim and disdain motivate you strongly, then you may well
find that your open source work looks very different than your closed
source work. Nothing wrong with that, as long as you are aware of the
motivation, and weigh it accordingly.

Scott
 
T

Timo Stamm

Patricia said:
...

I don't think there is any automatic answer in either direction.

Neither do I.

You MAY
have more recourse if paid software does not do what it is supposed to
do, depending on license terms, contracted support etc.

Companies like to have someone to take responsibility. They pay for a
Microsoft Software Assurance to get telephone support, trainings, and
software updates. Most linux distributors have similar offerings. On a
smaller scale, software companies can offer consulting and support for
an open source project. Take jetty for example.

They create revenue by taking responsibility for the software. Customers
will have a comparable recourse, provided that license terms, contracted
support etc. are comparable.

Development processes are often designed to ensure that more than one
person sees each piece of code before it is shipped. Traditional,
heavyweight processes include coding reviews.

I am sure there are a lot more open source projects with a flawed or
incomplete development process than closed source projects. Some people
love to code free software, but few people love free testing.

Extreme programming uses
pair programmer, so that two programmers consider each line as it is
being typed.

I tried that once. My coworker gave up after 5 minutes :)


Timo
 
T

Timo Stamm

Oliver said:
Which one of you two was typing at the time?

He was typing. He is a very capable programmer, but a terrible
team-player. We are back to code reviews.


Timo
 
G

geletine

A lot of open source projects are supported by big companies, such as
IBM, SUN, Novell, so in effect a lot is done by paid coders opposed to
spare time people may have.
Lets not forget GPL,BSD/MIT etc is not free food,
 

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