Opera 8.5 just out

Discussion in 'Java' started by Roedy Green, Sep 22, 2005.

  1. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    Opera 8.5 a small fast browser is now out. It is now free and the
    adware has been removed. I guess firefox/Mozilla/Netscape were
    putting too much pressure by being free.

    http://www.opera.com/download/

    It works with any version of Java.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 22, 2005
    #1
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  2. Roedy Green

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Opera 8.5 a small fast browser is now out. It is now free and the
    > adware has been removed. I guess firefox/Mozilla/Netscape were
    > putting too much pressure by being free.


    VIP A: Damn, we're not making as much money because FireFox/Mozilla/Netscape
    is free!
    VIP B: I know, let's make our release our products for free!
    VIP A: Genius!

    I guess this is why I never got a management degree.

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Sep 22, 2005
    #2
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  3. Roedy Green

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Oliver Wong <> wrote or quoted:
    > "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message


    > > Opera 8.5 a small fast browser is now out. It is now free and the
    > > adware has been removed. I guess firefox/Mozilla/Netscape were
    > > putting too much pressure by being free.

    >
    > VIP A: Damn, we're not making as much money because FireFox/Mozilla/Netscape
    > is free!
    > VIP B: I know, let's make our release our products for free!
    > VIP A: Genius!
    >
    > I guess this is why I never got a management degree.


    The browser wars were never about revenue.

    They were always about mindshare, power, and about who is in control of
    the planet's gateway to the internet.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/ Remove lock to reply.
     
    Tim Tyler, Sep 22, 2005
    #3
  4. Roedy Green

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Tim Tyler" <> wrote in message news:...
    > The browser wars were never about revenue.
    >
    > They were always about mindshare, power, and about who is in control of
    > the planet's gateway to the internet.


    Mindshare: This is only advantageous in a business context if, for
    example, after trying out and liking Microsoft Internet Explorer, I decided
    to buy other Microsoft products. AFAIK, the company that produces Opera
    offers no other products (though they offer technical support for Opera as
    service).

    Power, control: I'm not sure how a browser can give a business power or
    control over the Internet (or even just the web subset of it). There are
    some very good open source web browsers out there which can serve as
    "reference implementations". Any deviation from the behaviour of these
    references that can be deemed detrimental to the user (e.g. censorship of
    certain pages) would likely only cause a scandal.

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Sep 22, 2005
    #4
  5. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:09:26 GMT, "Oliver Wong" <>
    wrote or quoted :

    >VIP A: Damn, we're not making as much money because FireFox/Mozilla/Netscape
    >is free!
    >VIP B: I know, let's make our release our products for free!
    >VIP A: Genius!
    >
    > I guess this is why I never got a management degree.


    It is amazing how there can be so much free stuff. Google grew huge
    without any visible means of support.

    You wonder how Sun can possibly support the philanthropy of Java.

    Free stuff forces the for pay stuff to be great or else die
    altogether.

    I see a sort of split that mirrors the wealth split in society with
    the high end stuff getting ever more expensive and the low end stuff
    becoming cheaper and cheaper.

    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 22, 2005
    #5
  6. Roedy Green

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > It is amazing how there can be so much free stuff. Google grew huge
    > without any visible means of support.
    >
    > You wonder how Sun can possibly support the philanthropy of Java.
    >
    > Free stuff forces the for pay stuff to be great or else die
    > altogether.
    >
    > I see a sort of split that mirrors the wealth split in society with
    > the high end stuff getting ever more expensive and the low end stuff
    > becoming cheaper and cheaper.


    Getting off topic here, but as a social experiment back in highschool, I
    went around offering a $5 bill to my classmates who were not close
    acquaintances of mine.

    Nobody would take it. They had all assumed there must be some sort of
    trap or trick involved.

    These days, I don't pretend to try to understand why things are given
    away for free; I just gratefully accept them. [*]

    - Oliver

    [*] Of course, I always make sure to read the fine print, if applicable.
     
    Oliver Wong, Sep 22, 2005
    #6
  7. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:09:26 GMT, "Oliver Wong" <>
    wrote or quoted :

    >VIP A: Damn, we're not making as much money because FireFox/Mozilla/Netscape
    >is free!
    >VIP B: I know, let's make our release our products for free!
    >VIP A: Genius!


    I think it works like this:

    1. making it free increases desktop penetration.

    2. Ad revenue from google searches increases making up for the lost
    browser sales.

    3. Opera gets more name recognition which will help it sell the
    cellphone version.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 22, 2005
    #7
  8. Roedy Green

    Oliver Wong Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 17:09:26 GMT, "Oliver Wong" <>
    > wrote or quoted :
    >
    >>VIP A: Damn, we're not making as much money because
    >>FireFox/Mozilla/Netscape
    >>is free!
    >>VIP B: I know, let's make our release our products for free!
    >>VIP A: Genius!

    >
    > I think it works like this:


    > 2. Ad revenue from google searches increases making up for the lost
    > browser sales.


    Not sure I understand this point: Wouldn't the Opera company have to PAY
    to get their ads to show up on Google? And I don't think Google pays the
    Opera company just because more people are searching for the keywords "Opera
    web browser".

    - Oliver
     
    Oliver Wong, Sep 22, 2005
    #8
  9. Oliver Wong wrote:

    > AFAIK, the company that produces Opera offers no other products


    Opera Software has a lot of adaptations of their browser that they want
    to earn money on, they has sized it down to a lot of different handhelds
    and i had a demo of opera on my sony-ericcson p800 and that worked like
    a sharm. In this field there are no firefox, mozilla, explorer, safari,
    konqueror in sight with leads to a lot of attention in the handheld
    market, and that gives opera power.

    > Power, control: I'm not sure how a browser can give a business power or
    > control over the Internet (or even just the web subset of it).


    Im not sure either but i think that opera is sure by giving the browser
    away they can retain mindshare and concentrate on the hanheld market

    Karl
     
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Karl_=D8ie?=, Sep 22, 2005
    #9
  10. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 21:15:49 GMT, "Oliver Wong" <>
    wrote or quoted :

    > Not sure I understand this point: Wouldn't the Opera company have to PAY
    >to get their ads to show up on Google? And I don't think Google pays the
    >Opera company just because more people are searching for the keywords "Opera
    >web browser".


    Google wants hits. Opera is in a great position to give them hits by
    setting up features in the browser to make Google the easiest search
    engine to use. Google gets ad revenue for those hits, so presumably
    Google would be willing to pay Opera for directing that traffic to
    them.

    On my site, searches to google don't generate revenue, but ads posted
    on at the foot of each page (with my permission) by google do.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 23, 2005
    #10
  11. Roedy Green

    E11 Guest

    Back to the topic, how's it compared to firefox?



    Regards,
    Edwin
     
    E11, Sep 23, 2005
    #11
  12. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On 22 Sep 2005 18:20:08 -0700, "E11" <> wrote or
    quoted :

    >Back to the topic, how's it compared to firefox?


    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/opera.html

    Opera is my favourite browser. The main reason I like it is that I
    click start, and instantly it is up and has a page displayed. All the
    other browsers take forever by comparison to load.

    It is highly configurable. I can get every panel and button just the
    way I want it. And the ini files are easy to manipulate with at text
    editor.

    I has a feature to fill in forms. This is not such a novelty, but it
    originally was.

    It is clever about downloads. It starts right away, even before you
    have got the name of the save file typed, so often the download is
    ready by the time you have selected it.

    I can label files with 4NT describe during download. Other browsers
    don't make them visible until the download is over.

    Like firefox it has fun skins.

    I keep testing my stuff in a number of browsers:
    Opera, Netscape, Mozilla, Firefox, and IE, but the one I keep falling
    back on is Opera. I use IE for banking because the website is set up
    only to work with that one browser. Other than that, I use Opera for
    everything else.

    All those browsers use the Sun Java and all automatically switch to
    the most recently installed Java without fuss.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 23, 2005
    #12
  13. Roedy Green

    Stefan Ram Guest

    Roedy Green <> writes:
    >Opera is my favourite browser. The main reason I like it is that I
    >click start, and instantly it is up and has a page displayed. All the
    >other browsers take forever by comparison to load.


    What really annoyed me the last time I tried "Opera":

    - I start "Opera". (It was configured to start with no
    page opened.)

    - I wanted to open a web page, so I activated "File"/"Open ...".

    - An "Open"-dialogue appeared.

    - I entered a URI like "http://www.google.com/"

    - It said "invalid filename".

    I believe a web browser should accept a URI when the only
    "open" operation it offers in its menus is invoked.

    So how does one open a URI?

    It does not seem to be contained in a menu.

    One has to know the "secret": One has to press the key [F2].
     
    Stefan Ram, Sep 23, 2005
    #13
  14. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On 23 Sep 2005 02:54:01 GMT, -berlin.de (Stefan Ram) wrote
    or quoted :

    > So how does one open a URI?

    You must have turned off the address bar. That is the easiest place to
    enter one.
    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 23, 2005
    #14
  15. Roedy Green

    Dag Sunde Guest

    "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 22 Sep 2005 18:20:08 -0700, "E11" <> wrote or
    > quoted :
    >
    >>Back to the topic, how's it compared to firefox?

    >
    > See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/opera.html
    >
    > Opera is my favourite browser. The main reason I like it is that I
    > click start, and instantly it is up and has a page displayed. All the
    > other browsers take forever by comparison to load.
    >


    Hmmm...

    I must be doing something wrong here. I have caching turned off in
    all my browsers (IE6, NN7.2, FF1.02 and Opera 5.5). All browsers
    are set up to use Google as the default start-page.

    IE takes about 0.5 sec to open and show the page.
    FF takes about 3 sec., and Opera 5-6 seconds.
    Netscape use 8 to 10 seconds.

    This on a 1.3GHz AMD with 512Mb Ram, running XP...

    You have any clue what I'm doing wrong?

    When developing Wep applications I always use FF, and then
    test in the other 3 browsers afterwards. and when it comes
    to rendering, Opera is what gives me most trouble (with css)
    I'm not saying Opera is wrong, here... Its just that it often
    behaves slightly different than the others...

    --
    Dag.
     
    Dag Sunde, Sep 23, 2005
    #15
  16. Roedy Green

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:49:43 GMT, "Dag Sunde" <> wrote
    or quoted :

    >Opera 5.5).


    I don't know. I would try uninstalling and installing the latest 8.5
    You have machine similar to mine, and Opera loads in under 2 seconds
    on mine.

    I got quite a boost in speed by tweaking my RWIN to 255552,

    You can do that with TweakDUN. See
    http://mindprod.com/jgloss/tweakdun.html

    Have you done a defrag recently? do you have it on a very slow drive?

    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    http://mindprod.com Again taking new Java programming contracts.
     
    Roedy Green, Sep 23, 2005
    #16
  17. Roedy Green

    dnasmars Guest

    I've tried opera 5 sec on http://maps.google.com
    and it had strange behavoir so I uninstalled it
    and upgraded firefox :)
    E11 wrote:
    > Back to the topic, how's it compared to firefox?
    >
    >
    >
    > Regards,
    > Edwin
    >
     
    dnasmars, Sep 23, 2005
    #17
  18. Roedy Green

    Chris Uppal Guest

    Dag Sunde wrote:

    > I must be doing something wrong here. I have caching turned off in
    > all my browsers (IE6, NN7.2, FF1.02 and Opera 5.5). All browsers
    > are set up to use Google as the default start-page.
    >
    > IE takes about 0.5 sec to open and show the page.
    > FF takes about 3 sec., and Opera 5-6 seconds.
    > Netscape use 8 to 10 seconds.


    Probably just a consequence of how much code needs to be loaded from either the
    file system or from pagefile as the application starts. Most of IE is
    probably in memory anyway since it's used in lots of things. FF is smaller
    than Netscape so it should load faster -- and if you use it as your primary
    browser then there's a fair chance that its code is in memory, or at least
    still present in the pagefile, when you start it up, even if no other FF
    instance was running at that time. I'd guess the difference between Opera and
    Netscape is a mixture of Opera being smaller (I presume it is) and perhaps also
    having had more effort put into optimising its startup sequence (which might
    have been more important to Opera -- wishing to retain a reputation for
    producing a small, fast, browser, than for Netscape whose product is not
    intended to seem "small").

    FF and Netscape both have the option to keep the main executable always active,
    allowing fast startup. I don't know if Opera has a similar option. IE hardly
    needs it -- the dammed lump's code is pervasive anyway...

    -- chris
     
    Chris Uppal, Sep 23, 2005
    #18
  19. Roedy Green

    Stefan Ram Guest

    Roedy Green <> writes:
    >>So how does one open a URI?

    >You must have turned off the address bar. That is the easiest
    >place to enter one.


    I am not aware of the keys that I would press to place the
    cursor in the address bar (using a pointing device would slow
    me down). Anyway - It could not get any easier to get there
    than by pressing just a single key. Entering a single key to
    open a URI is already possible now ([F2]), so I do not see how
    the visibility of the address bar would help me.

    Moreover: I have started Opera now with no initial page, so
    the main window is empty. And both "Address bar" and
    "Navigation bar" are grayed out in this state. Now, I am not
    able to turne on the address bar, even if this would help me
    to enter an address without a pointing device in this state.
     
    Stefan Ram, Sep 23, 2005
    #19
  20. -berlin.de (Stefan Ram) writes:

    > - I wanted to open a web page, so I activated "File"/"Open ...".


    But web pages are not files, even though Windows tries to wash out the
    distinction by merging Explorer and Internet Explorer...

    > So how does one open a URI?


    By typing into an address bar, as you have done in every GUI browser
    since ViolaWWW for X11.
     
    Tor Iver Wilhelmsen, Sep 23, 2005
    #20
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