Opera and List-style-type?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Samuël van Laere, Oct 30, 2004.

  1. Does anyone know if Opera supports
    list-style-types to begin with?

    I've tried the following:
    list-style: decimal outside none;
    list-style: lower-roman outside none;

    But neither work under Opera.
    IE and Mozilla/Firefox display's them though.

    Any solutions?

    Regards,
    Samuël
     
    Samuël van Laere, Oct 30, 2004
    #1
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  2. On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:18:46 GMT, Samuël van Laere <>
    wrote:

    > Does anyone know if Opera supports
    > list-style-types to begin with?


    Opera supports all of the list types specified in CSS 1. I haven't tested
    that, but they state in the Specifications section that new CSS 2 types
    are not currently available.

    > I've tried the following:
    > list-style: decimal outside none;
    > list-style: lower-roman outside none;


    Opera supports both decimal and lower-roman types, amongst others, but it
    does appear to object to your use of none. At that point, it reverts to
    decimal. However, those rules are equivalent to:

    list-style-type: decimal;
    list-style-type: lower-roman;

    which avoids the problem.

    Mike


    Anyone happen to know if Opera Software is aware of this bug?

    --
    Michael Winter
    Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
     
    Michael Winter, Oct 30, 2004
    #2
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  3. "Michael Winter" <> wrote:

    >> Does anyone know if Opera supports list-style-types to begin with?

    >
    > Opera supports all of the list types specified in CSS 1. I haven't
    > tested that, but they state in the Specifications section that new
    > CSS 2 types are not currently available.


    Oh? They seem to be supported, though, even lower-greek and
    decimal-leading-zero.

    > Opera supports both decimal and lower-roman types, amongst others,
    > but it does appear to object to your use of none.


    So it seems.

    > At that point, it
    > reverts to decimal.


    Or bullets, if used for <ul>.

    > However, those rules are equivalent to:
    >
    > list-style-type: decimal;
    > list-style-type: lower-roman;
    >
    > which avoids the problem.


    Yes, and
    list-style: decimal outside;
    list-style: lower-roman outside;
    work too, and so do these without the word 'outside'. So it's reall
    'none' that creates a problem. I guess it's because list-style
    is a shorthand for specifying 1, 2 or 3 three of list-style-type,
    list-style-position and list-style-image, in any order, and processing
    this gets a bit tricky since 'none' is a possible value for
    list-style-type _and_ for list-style-image. So maybe Opera just gets
    confused and doesn't know which one it relates to, or something.

    > Anyone happen to know if Opera Software is aware of this bug?


    I dunno. I think you need to register in order to access their bug data
    base, and as a matter of principle, I won't.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Oct 30, 2004
    #3
  4. in alt.html, Samuël van Laere wrote:
    > Does anyone know if Opera supports
    > list-style-types to begin with?


    Yes, it seems to have good support.

    > I've tried the following:
    > list-style: decimal outside none;
    > list-style: lower-roman outside none;


    Why none? Leave it out, and it works like you want.
    http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/about.html#shorthand

    > But neither work under Opera.


    Yes, as it knows it CSS.

    > IE and Mozilla/Firefox display's them though.


    I'm not sure if it is bug... It seems to be that value is correct, but
    error handling is not defined...

    > Any solutions?


    Read spec:
    http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    | A value of 'none' for the 'list-style' property sets both 'list-style-
    | type' and 'list-style-image' to 'none':



    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Lauri Raittila, Oct 30, 2004
    #4
  5. "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > > Any solutions?

    >
    > Read spec:
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    > | A value of 'none' for the 'list-style' property sets both 'list-style-
    > | type' and 'list-style-image' to 'none':
    >


    Offcourse you're right, i should have read the specs.
    But still it won't work:
    All of the following make Opera 7.54 crash on my W2K system:

    list-style: decimal inside;
    list-style: decimal;
    list-style-type: decimal;
    list-style-position: inside;

    Neither of them make it even to the screen,
    so for now i must asume Opera has a nasty bug.

    When the value none is added it won't crash,
    though it won't display any roman or decimal numbers.

    Perhaps a newer version of Opera solved it,
    maybe someone knows?


    Regards,
    Samuël
     
    Samuël van Laere, Oct 30, 2004
    #5
  6. in alt.html, Samuël van Laere wrote:
    >
    > "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > > Any solutions?

    > >
    > > Read spec:
    > > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    > > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    > > | A value of 'none' for the 'list-style' property sets both 'list-style-
    > > | type' and 'list-style-image' to 'none':
    > >

    >
    > Offcourse you're right, i should have read the specs.
    > But still it won't work:
    > All of the following make Opera 7.54 crash on my W2K system:
    >
    > list-style: decimal inside;
    > list-style: decimal;
    > list-style-type: decimal;
    > list-style-position: inside;
    >
    > Neither of them make it even to the screen,
    > so for now i must asume Opera has a nasty bug.


    URL? Never seen the bug, and seen 2 messgaes related to this thread say
    that they would work. But you might have somethign special that makes
    things crash.



    --
    Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>
     
    Lauri Raittila, Oct 30, 2004
    #6
  7. On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:03:31 +0300, Lauri Raittila
    <> wrote:

    [snip]

    > Read spec:
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#propdef-list-style
    > | A value of 'none' for the 'list-style' property sets both 'list-style-
    > | type' and 'list-style-image' to 'none':


    [Taken from my post to opera.page-display, slightly abridged]

    However, the specific example in the Recommendation is:

    list-style: none;

    In such a case, it is reasonable to assume that "none" should apply to
    both -image and -style.

    Whilst I'll admit that having to determine which value applies to which
    property in a shorthand rule probably won't be achieved by elegant code,
    it is feasible. In the rule:

    list-style: none inside lower-alpha;

    the first token, "none" could provisionally be applied to both -image and
    -style properties as it is a legal value for either. The next token,
    inside, is only valid for -position, so that can be applied without issue.
    The final token, lower-alpha, is only applicable to -style, so its
    provisional value of "none" is changed to "lower-alpha", and the
    provisional value for -image is left as-is.

    Similarly:

    list-style: none inside url(...);

    except that now, it is -image that has the unambiguous value.

    If, as in your example, none is specified once, the provisional values for
    both -image and -style will remain unchanged.

    Mike

    --
    Michael Winter
    Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
     
    Michael Winter, Oct 30, 2004
    #7
  8. "Lauri Raittila" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > URL? Never seen the bug, and seen 2 messgaes related to this thread say
    > that they would work. But you might have somethign special that makes
    > things crash.
    >


    Its online on my website for now:
    http://www.fortron.net/jessica/
    the stylesheet:
    http://www.fortron.net/jessica/style.css

    Each time i connect to it with Opera 7.54 it crashes.
    Mozilla and IE, no problemo.
    Besides that list problem everything works fine in Opera :))

    The HTML code:

    <div id="nieuws">
    <h3>Laatste nieuws:</h3>
    <ul>
    <li>Item 1</li>
    <li>Item 2</li>
    <li>Item 3</li>
    <li>Item 4</li>
    <li>Item 5</li>
    </ul>
    </div

    The offending CSS Opera code:

    #nieuws {
    background-color: #F5F5F5;
    border-bottom: 1px dashed #808080;
    border-left: 1px dashed #808080;
    color: #333333;
    float: right;
    width: 200px;
    }

    #nieuws h3{
    background-color: #FFF5EE;
    border-bottom: 1px dashed #808080;
    color: #778899;
    font: 100% Courier, sans-serif;
    margin: 0px;
    text-align: center;
    }

    #nieuws li{
    list-style-position: inside;
    list-style-type: decimal;
    }


    Thanks in advance for looking into this problem.

    Regards,
    Samuël
     
    Samuël van Laere, Oct 30, 2004
    #8
  9. On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:31:41 +0000 (UTC), Jukka K. Korpela
    <> wrote:

    > "Michael Winter" <> wrote:


    [snip]

    >> Opera [...] state in the Specifications section that new CSS 2 types
    >> are not currently available.

    >
    > Oh? They seem to be supported, though, even lower-greek and
    > decimal-leading-zero.


    That's what they say. From <URL:http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/css/>:

    "Opera doesn't support the new list styles in CSS2 (e.g. Georgian
    or Hiragana)."

    I thought it supported some of the newer values when I made my previous
    post, but I wasn't certain. I could have been confused with tests on other
    browsers. Perhaps that document is out-of-date.

    >> Opera supports both decimal and lower-roman types, amongst others, but
    >> it does appear to object to your use of none.


    [snip]

    > I guess it's because list-style is a shorthand for specifying 1, 2 or 3
    > three of list-style-type, list-style-position and list-style-image, in
    > any order, and processing this gets a bit tricky since 'none' is a
    > possible value for list-style-type _and_ for list-style-image.


    Yeah. I gave my impression of the required parsing process in my follow-up
    to Lauri.

    > So maybe Opera just gets confused and doesn't know which one it relates
    > to, or something.


    It appears that Opera perceives

    list-style: <type> none;

    as invalid as it ignores the rule.

    list-style: inside none;
    list-style: inside circle;

    both result in the marker moving inside the principle box, but

    list-style: circle inside none;

    doesn't.

    >> Anyone happen to know if Opera Software is aware of this bug?

    >
    > I dunno. I think you need to register in order to access their bug data
    > base, and as a matter of principle, I won't.


    From what I've been told, their tracking system is closed. As I've been
    lucky enough to encounter people who've logged bugs when I've mentioned
    them, I thought I'd try my luck again.

    Mike

    --
    Michael Winter
    Replace ".invalid" with ".uk" to reply by e-mail.
     
    Michael Winter, Oct 31, 2004
    #9
  10. Samuël van Laere

    Spartanicus Guest

    "Jukka K. Korpela" <> wrote:

    >> Anyone happen to know if Opera Software is aware of this bug?

    >
    >I dunno. I think you need to register in order to access their bug data
    >base, and as a matter of principle, I won't.


    Opera's bug database cannot be viewed by non authorized people.
    Reporting bugs does not require registration.

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Oct 31, 2004
    #10
  11. Samuël van Laere

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Samuël van Laere wrote:

    > Does anyone know if Opera supports list-style-types to begin with?


    It supports all list-style-types in the CSS 2.1 candidate recommendation.
    Those are:

    disc | circle | square | decimal | decimal-leading-zero |
    lower-roman | upper-roman | lower-latin | upper-latin |
    none | inherit

    It also supports the following list-style-types from the CSS 2.0 spec,
    which were dropped:

    lower-greek | lower-alpha | upper-alpha | armenian | georgian

    It does not support:

    hebrew | cjk-ideographic | hiragana | katakana |
    hiragana-iroha | katakana-iroha

    (yet)

    > I've tried the following:
    > list-style: decimal outside none;
    > list-style: lower-roman outside none;


    I would suggest that Opera is getting confused about the 'none' which is a
    valid value for both list-style-type and list-style-image. I would count
    this as an Opera bug. However, it is easy to work around. Simply don't use
    the shorthand.

    list-style-type: lower-roman;
    list-style-position: outside;
    list-style-image: none;

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Oct 31, 2004
    #11
  12. "Michael Winter" <> wrote:

    >> "Michael Winter" <> wrote:

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >>> Opera [...] state in the Specifications section that new CSS 2
    >>> types are not currently available.

    >>
    >> Oh? They seem to be supported, though, even lower-greek and
    >> decimal-leading-zero.

    >
    > That's what they say. From
    > <URL:http://www.opera.com/docs/specs/css/>:
    >
    > "Opera doesn't support the new list styles in CSS2 (e.g. Georgian
    > or Hiragana)."


    Oh, I seem to have missed those, probably because I never gave those
    values much attention, due to virtually nonexistent support. But Opera
    supports _some_ of the CSS 2 novelties, like those that I mentioned. For
    further confusion, the CSS 2.1 draft seems to have dropped hiragana but
    kept georgian. Yet another arbitrary decision.

    > I thought it supported some of the newer values when I made my
    > previous post, but I wasn't certain.


    Yes, that seems to be the situation.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
     
    Jukka K. Korpela, Oct 31, 2004
    #12
  13. Samuël van Laere

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 00:43:52 +0100, Spartanicus <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > Opera's bug database cannot be viewed by non authorized people.
    > Reporting bugs does not require registration.


    Sounds like a recipe for a myriad of duplicates.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
     
    Mark Parnell, Oct 31, 2004
    #13
  14. Samuël van Laere

    Spartanicus Guest

    Mark Parnell <> wrote:

    >> Opera's bug database cannot be viewed by non authorized people.
    >> Reporting bugs does not require registration.

    >
    >Sounds like a recipe for a myriad of duplicates.


    That's a consequence Opera is willing and able to deal with.

    --
    Spartanicus
     
    Spartanicus, Nov 1, 2004
    #14
  15. Samuël van Laere

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Mon, 01 Nov 2004 07:57:10 +0000, Spartanicus <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > That's a consequence Opera is willing and able to deal with.


    Fair enough. Wouldn't be my preference, but I don't own Opera. :)

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    "Never drink rum&coke whilst reading usenet" - rf 2004
     
    Mark Parnell, Nov 1, 2004
    #15
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