OSX IDE usability issues

Discussion in 'Python' started by Alex Holcombe, Jun 7, 2004.

  1.  One thing that attracted me to Python was the prospect of
    significantly shorter debugging times and debug-execution cycles
    thanks to Python being an interpreted rather than compiled language.
    In the case of MATLAB, the interpreted language I use currently,
    programming is quite speedy because one can test small sets of lines
    of code by copying them directly from the program file to the command
    line and debugging them in isolation- e.g. allowing one to easily set
    individual variables manually and checking the result.  

    I was disappointed to find that I was not able to do this with Python
    programs using OSX's PythonIDE (also I didn't find any alternative
    IDEs on the web that might take care of this).  I am a newbie, so I
    may be wrong, but there appear to be three reasons for this.  

    1. when I copy text from a Python script (using command-C or the menu)
    and paste it in on the command line, only the first line of the text
    is actually executed, even though manually entering the same lines one
    by one with carriage returns between them does execute the code
    perfectly.  Why the problem with pasting occurs I don't know- does
    anyone know?  

    2.Even if the above did work, trying to execute a few lines of code
    out of a Python script should typically not work, if I understand
    Python syntax correctly.  Because to Python indentation whitespace is
    meaningful, one cannot e.g. copy the contents out of a nested if-then
    statement and expect it to execute, because when you paste the text it
    will have that level of indentation still rather than having no
    indentation as it should.  Am I right about this and is there a way
    around it?

    3. One nice thing about MATLAB is I can execute a script and then
    query the values of all the script's variables from the command line.
    By just typing the variable name, I can see its value.  In contrast,
    it appears that in Python variables have more restricted scope such
    that the command line can't "see" the variables executed in a Python
    script.  Is there some way to make the variables in a Python script
    global so that I can play with them on the command line?

    Without solutions or workarounds to the above three issues, much of
    the everyday efficiency advantage of using an interpreted language
    seems to me to be lost.  So despite the beauty of Python, for my new
    laboratory I might end up using MATLAB and Psychophysics toolbox
    instead (presuming they someday get that to work with OSX!).  

    Thanks in advance for any corrections comments etc.,
    Alex Holcombe
     
    Alex Holcombe, Jun 7, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. (Alex Holcombe) wrote in message news:<>...

    > 1. when I copy text from a Python script (using command-C or the menu)
    > and paste it in on the command line, only the first line of the text
    > is actually executed, even though manually entering the same lines one


    This depends on the IDE. Most console applications use the stupid
    method of one line after the other, not thinking about the reasons
    that lead to this technique a few decades ago. I don't think an
    interactive console should be implemented any more in this way.

    > 2.Even if the above did work, trying to execute a few lines of code
    > out of a Python script should typically not work, if I understand
    > Python syntax correctly.  Because to Python indentation whitespace is


    You can, this is also possible if the IDE indentifies your initial
    indentation and unindent the code before feeding the it to the
    interpreter. Should be a few lines of code.

    > 3. One nice thing about MATLAB is I can execute a script and then
    > query the values of all the script's variables from the command line.
    > By just typing the variable name, I can see its value.  In contrast,
    > it appears that in Python variables have more restricted scope such
    > that the command line can't "see" the variables executed in a Python
    > script.  Is there some way to make the variables in a Python script
    > global so that I can play with them on the command line?


    Can you explain this a little bit more ?
    If you cut&paste some of the former local variables becames of course
    global variables. If you give an example it would be much better to
    understand.


    And from what i know, Python is a much complexer language then MATLAB
    so don't expect that everything is so easy. But you get back better
    programs.
    There are a lot of improvements by using an interpreted language like
    python, but maybe this does not fit your personal programming style.
    If you get more experience with programming you will find that testing
    individuell code snippets will be less and less important. Of couse
    it's nice to explore a new library but this can also be done with
    simple scripts. In fact i find it much more complicated to cut&paste
    code instead of running a file where i do the changes.

    Oh yes, (1) and (2) are resolved in "Arachno Python IDE", which is in
    a closed beta testing phase.
     
    Lothar Scholz, Jun 7, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Alex Holcombe

    Lou Pecora Guest

    In article <>,
    (Lothar Scholz) wrote:

    > There are a lot of improvements by using an interpreted language like
    > python, but maybe this does not fit your personal programming style.
    > If you get more experience with programming you will find that testing
    > individuell code snippets will be less and less important. Of couse
    > it's nice to explore a new library but this can also be done with
    > simple scripts. In fact i find it much more complicated to cut&paste
    > code instead of running a file where i do the changes.
    >


    I agree with this last paragraph. I typically build the code in stages
    and run it between stages with some prints or something else to check
    each stage. It's easy, doesn't involve copy-past or command lines. I'm
    testing the code in-place. I think that's easier and better. Just code
    and hit cmd-R.

    -- Lou Pecora
    My views are my own.

    "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate."
    (Steven Wright)
     
    Lou Pecora, Jun 7, 2004
    #3
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. George Durzi

    Usability of Multi-Select ListBox

    George Durzi, Jun 2, 2005, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    1,507
    George Durzi
    Jun 2, 2005
  2. Tim_Mac
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    368
    Tim_Mac
    Dec 15, 2005
  3. Alan Silver

    Big usability problem with validators

    Alan Silver, Feb 23, 2006, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    370
    Alan Silver
    Feb 27, 2006
  4. Okros Peter

    jboss usability

    Okros Peter, Aug 5, 2005, in forum: Java
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    471
    Jon Martin Solaas
    Aug 5, 2005
  5. Thomas McCarthy

    javascript redirect usability

    Thomas McCarthy, Jul 17, 2003, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    489
    AndyEd
    Jul 22, 2003
Loading...

Share This Page