[OT] C90 IDE+compiler for Windows / educational purposes

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Ioannis Vranos, Feb 3, 2008.

  1. Hi,

    Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    correctly there.

    Any ideas would be welcome.
    Ioannis Vranos, Feb 3, 2008
    #1
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  2. Ioannis Vranos

    jacob navia Guest

    Ioannis Vranos wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    > use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    > correctly there.
    >
    > Any ideas would be welcome.


    lcc-win is a C compiler used a lot in universities and educational
    settings.

    It features
    o IDE with windowed debugger

    o Compiler assembler, linker, make utility

    o Advanced IDE with spelling checker, tooltips, goto definition,
    software metrics, grep/search/diff, and many other utilities.

    o Small package installs in approx 1 minute.

    o Types:
    True long double precision
    long long type (64 bit integer)
    Optional 352 bits float (104 digits)
    128 bit integers
    All normal types (int,double,float,short, etc)

    o Optional extensions like operator overloading/try-catch/ etc.

    o Educational licenses available.

    If interested contact me below.

    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Feb 3, 2008
    #2
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  3. Ioannis Vranos <> writes:
    > Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    > use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't
    > work correctly there.
    >
    > Any ideas would be welcome.


    As I recall from discussions here, the problem is an inconsistency
    between the compiler and the runtime library regarding the
    representation of long double. Either choice would be valid by
    itself, but the inconsistency is a bug.

    How much of a problem is that really? What if you just avoid the use
    of long double in the class?

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Feb 3, 2008
    #3
  4. Ioannis Vranos said:

    > Hi,
    >
    > Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    > use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    > correctly there.


    Turbo C is fine, and is available for free download from the Borland museum
    site.

    BTW welcome back to clc :)

    --
    Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Richard Heathfield, Feb 3, 2008
    #4
  5. Ioannis Vranos

    Guest

    Re: C90 IDE+compiler for Windows / educational purposes

    On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, Ioannis Vranos <>
    wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    > use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    > correctly there.

    There is no 'long double' in C90.
    'long double' was standarised in C99 AFAIK.
    Is long double that importand?
    , Feb 3, 2008
    #5
  6. Ioannis Vranos

    Flash Gordon Guest

    Ioannis Vranos wrote, On 03/02/08 21:30:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    > use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    > correctly there.
    >
    > Any ideas would be welcome.


    Check out the licensing terms on the free versions of MS Visual Studio.

    Also, whatever you go for, *please* find out how to put it in to
    ISO-conforming mode and start off by teaching standard portable C before
    you go on to any non-standard stuff, and when you do the non-standard
    stuff let the students know it is non-standard and not portable.
    --
    Flash Gordon
    Flash Gordon, Feb 3, 2008
    #6
  7. Re: C90 IDE+compiler for Windows / educational purposes

    said:

    > On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, Ioannis Vranos <>
    > wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    >> correctly there.

    > There is no 'long double' in C90.


    Rubbish. See (the C90 equivalent of) 3.1.2.5 of C89.

    --
    Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Richard Heathfield, Feb 3, 2008
    #7
  8. jacob navia wrote:
    > Ioannis Vranos wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't
    >> work correctly there.
    >>
    >> Any ideas would be welcome.

    >
    > lcc-win is a C compiler used a lot in universities and educational
    > settings.


    Jacob meant to declare an interest at this point as he is the maintainer
    of lcc-win32, and the beneficiary of any commercial license.

    For the non-Brits amongst you, "declaring an interest" is what our
    elected representatives are supposed to do when a law is under
    discussion from which they might financially benefit.

    (jacob, two things; 1) this is not an attack on you, its a simple
    clarification - so take your paranoid hat off; 2) your new email is in
    my killfile so no need to respond).

    --
    Mark McIntyre

    CLC FAQ <http://c-faq.com/>
    CLC readme: <http://www.ungerhu.com/jxh/clc.welcome.txt>
    Mark McIntyre, Feb 3, 2008
    #8
  9. Ioannis Vranos

    jacob navia Guest

    Mark McIntyre wrote:
    > jacob navia wrote:
    >> Ioannis Vranos wrote:
    >>> Hi,
    >>>
    >>> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows
    >>> for use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double"
    >>> doesn't work correctly there.
    >>>
    >>> Any ideas would be welcome.

    >>
    >> lcc-win is a C compiler used a lot in universities and educational
    >> settings.

    >
    > Jacob meant to declare an interest at this point as he is the maintainer
    > of lcc-win32, and the beneficiary of any commercial license.
    >


    Yes. I have been working since 1995 in providing this
    compiler to many people and to the C community in
    general. This compiler is not supported by any big
    institution but by its users: universities,
    private people, several companies, and many
    other people that contributed to this project.

    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Feb 3, 2008
    #9
  10. Ioannis Vranos

    jacob navia Guest

    Mark McIntyre wrote:
    [snip]


    2) your new email is in my killfile ...

    Your killfile has a bug apparently. If not, how could
    you read my answers to posts here?

    :)

    But obviously you can't write anything without a bug,
    not even a killfile!

    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Feb 3, 2008
    #10
  11. Mark McIntyre said:

    > jacob navia wrote:
    >> Ioannis Vranos wrote:
    >>> Hi,
    >>>
    >>> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >>> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't
    >>> work correctly there.
    >>>
    >>> Any ideas would be welcome.

    >>
    >> lcc-win is a C compiler used a lot in universities and educational
    >> settings.

    >
    > Jacob meant to declare an interest at this point as he is the maintainer
    > of lcc-win32, and the beneficiary of any commercial license.


    He also forgot to mention that lcc-win32 has C90 conformance issues which
    generally seem to come as a complete surprise to him when they come to
    light here in comp.lang.c; apparently this is because he didn't bother to
    read the Standard all that closely when "improving" the software - after
    all, it's just boring techie stuff, right? Who wants to spend time reading
    that stuff, when they could be adding FEATURES?

    --
    Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Richard Heathfield, Feb 3, 2008
    #11
  12. Re: C90 IDE+compiler for Windows / educational purposes

    writes:
    > On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, Ioannis Vranos <>
    > wrote:
    >> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    >> correctly there.

    > There is no 'long double' in C90.
    > 'long double' was standarised in C99 AFAIK.
    > Is long double that importand?


    Incorrect; long double is in C90. (I've seen compilers produce error
    messages that imply otherwise; those messages are incorrect.)

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Feb 3, 2008
    #12
  13. Ioannis Vranos

    jacob navia Guest

    Keith Thompson wrote:
    > Ioannis Vranos <> writes:
    >> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't
    >> work correctly there.
    >>
    >> Any ideas would be welcome.

    >
    > As I recall from discussions here, the problem is an inconsistency
    > between the compiler and the runtime library regarding the
    > representation of long double. Either choice would be valid by
    > itself, but the inconsistency is a bug.
    >
    > How much of a problem is that really? What if you just avoid the use
    > of long double in the class?
    >


    Ahh if gcc doesn't implement correctly long double... that
    is just a minor thing that doesn't matter.

    If lcc-win has some obscure name clashes with code written
    specially for that purpose that is a FATAL flaw.

    The regulars. Always so unbiased!

    :)


    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Feb 3, 2008
    #13
  14. Re: C90 IDE+compiler for Windows / educational purposes

    wrote:
    > On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, Ioannis Vranos <>
    > wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    >> correctly there.

    > There is no 'long double' in C90.
    > 'long double' was standarised in C99 AFAIK.
    > Is long double that importand?



    It is a C90 built in type:

    long double ld= 0.1L;

    printf("%Lf", ld);
    Ioannis Vranos, Feb 4, 2008
    #14
  15. jacob navia <> writes:
    > Keith Thompson wrote:
    >> Ioannis Vranos <> writes:
    >>> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >>> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't
    >>> work correctly there.
    >>>
    >>> Any ideas would be welcome.

    >>
    >> As I recall from discussions here, the problem is an inconsistency
    >> between the compiler and the runtime library regarding the
    >> representation of long double. Either choice would be valid by
    >> itself, but the inconsistency is a bug.
    >>
    >> How much of a problem is that really? What if you just avoid the use
    >> of long double in the class?

    >
    > Ahh if gcc doesn't implement correctly long double... that
    > is just a minor thing that doesn't matter.


    I didn't say it doesn't matter. It's certainly a bug; I merely
    suggested that it might not be a show-stopping problem in a particular
    context.

    (If I recall correctly, it's not a bug in gcc; it's a bug in
    Dev-C++/MINGW's integration of gcc with the Microsoft runtime library.
    It should certainly be corrected somehow; I've never suggested
    otherwise.)

    > If lcc-win has some obscure name clashes with code written
    > specially for that purpose that is a FATAL flaw.


    No, it's not a fatal flaw. It's a bug, and it's a failure to conform
    to the standard. You should fix it.

    > The regulars. Always so unbiased!
    >
    > :)


    Recently, when somebody's program failed to compile because of a bug
    in lcc-win, I suggested a possible workaround, namely avoiding the
    particular identifier that lcc-win incorrectly declared in a standard
    header. Now when someone mentions a conformance failure in
    Dev-C++/MINGW, I suggest a possible workaround, namely avoiding the
    use of type long double. So what bias are you talking about?

    Since you've jumped into this discussion (which wasn't about you or
    your compiler in the first place), I'll ask you whether you have any
    plans to fix this particular bug in lcc-win. (I don't ask the same
    thing about Dev-C++/MINGW simply because its maintainers don't post
    here, as far as I know.)

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Feb 4, 2008
    #15
  16. Keith Thompson said:

    > Ioannis Vranos <> writes:
    >> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't
    >> work correctly there.
    >>
    >> Any ideas would be welcome.

    >
    > As I recall from discussions here, the problem is an inconsistency
    > between the compiler and the runtime library regarding the
    > representation of long double. Either choice would be valid by
    > itself, but the inconsistency is a bug.


    Right.

    > How much of a problem is that really?


    I'd have thought that the failure to implement a fundamental type correctly
    is a serious conformance issue. That's a big problem, surely?

    > What if you just avoid the use
    > of long double in the class?


    I see your point, but wouldn't it be simpler to use an implementation that
    conforms to C90? It's not as if there is any shortage of conforming
    implementations for the Windows platform - and many of them are free. Why
    use a broken implementation when working implementations are available?

    --
    Richard Heathfield <http://www.cpax.org.uk>
    Email: -http://www. +rjh@
    Google users: <http://www.cpax.org.uk/prg/writings/googly.php>
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29 July 1999
    Richard Heathfield, Feb 4, 2008
    #16
  17. Ioannis Vranos

    jacob navia Guest

    Keith Thompson wrote:
    > Since you've jumped into this discussion (which wasn't about you or
    > your compiler in the first place), I'll ask you whether you have any
    > plans to fix this particular bug in lcc-win. (I don't ask the same
    > thing about Dev-C++/MINGW simply because its maintainers don't post
    > here, as far as I know.)
    >


    It is fixed already. And it is fixedf also the one
    about RAND_MAX. Will be there tomorrow.


    --
    jacob navia
    jacob at jacob point remcomp point fr
    logiciels/informatique
    http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~lcc-win32
    jacob navia, Feb 4, 2008
    #17
  18. Re: C90 IDE+compiler for Windows / educational purposes

    Ioannis Vranos <> writes:
    > wrote:
    >> On Feb 3, 11:30 pm, Ioannis Vranos <>
    >> wrote:
    >>> Hi,
    >>>
    >>> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >>> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't work
    >>> correctly there.

    >> There is no 'long double' in C90.
    >> 'long double' was standarised in C99 AFAIK.
    >> Is long double that importand?

    >
    >
    > It is a C90 built in type:
    >
    > long double ld= 0.1L;
    >
    > printf("%Lf", ld);


    Of course. I was merely suggesting that, in a classroom context, it
    might be acceptable to work around this bug by avoiding the use of
    long double, or at least to avoid passing it to the *printf()
    functions. Implementing a function to create a string representation
    of a long double value (which printf *should* do) could even be a good
    exercise.

    It's your call, of course.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Feb 4, 2008
    #18
  19. Richard Heathfield <> writes:
    > Keith Thompson said:
    >> Ioannis Vranos <> writes:
    >>> Do you know of any decent free simple C90 IDE+compiler for Windows for
    >>> use in a classroom? I know Dev-C++/MINGW but "long double" doesn't
    >>> work correctly there.
    >>>
    >>> Any ideas would be welcome.

    >>
    >> As I recall from discussions here, the problem is an inconsistency
    >> between the compiler and the runtime library regarding the
    >> representation of long double. Either choice would be valid by
    >> itself, but the inconsistency is a bug.

    >
    > Right.
    >
    >> How much of a problem is that really?

    >
    > I'd have thought that the failure to implement a fundamental type correctly
    > is a serious conformance issue. That's a big problem, surely?


    As I recall, the type itself is implemented correctly; the bug is that
    the runtime library's implementation of printf doesn't handle it.

    It's a failure to conform to the standard, which is a serious problem.
    For an application that deons't use long double, it might not be a
    show-stopper.

    >> What if you just avoid the use
    >> of long double in the class?

    >
    > I see your point, but wouldn't it be simpler to use an implementation that
    > conforms to C90? It's not as if there is any shortage of conforming
    > implementations for the Windows platform - and many of them are free. Why
    > use a broken implementation when working implementations are available?


    I don't know enough about C implementations under Windows to judge how
    good they are. It's possible that Dev-C++/MINGW had advantages that
    might, in some contexts, outweigh this one bug. It's also possible
    that it doesn't. I was merely pointing out a possiblity.

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Feb 4, 2008
    #19
  20. jacob navia <> writes:
    > Keith Thompson wrote:
    >> Since you've jumped into this discussion (which wasn't about you or
    >> your compiler in the first place), I'll ask you whether you have any
    >> plans to fix this particular bug in lcc-win. (I don't ask the same
    >> thing about Dev-C++/MINGW simply because its maintainers don't post
    >> here, as far as I know.)

    >
    > It is fixed already. And it is fixedf also the one
    > about RAND_MAX. Will be there tomorrow.


    Glad to hear it, especially after your previous attitude.

    Have you check for other non-standard identifiers in your standard
    headers?

    --
    Keith Thompson (The_Other_Keith) <>
    Nokia
    "We must do something. This is something. Therefore, we must do this."
    -- Antony Jay and Jonathan Lynn, "Yes Minister"
    Keith Thompson, Feb 4, 2008
    #20
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