OT: Chat server

Discussion in 'Python' started by Daniel Dittmar, Jun 17, 2004.

  1. Re: Chat server

    Miki Tebeka wrote:
    > I'm looking for a chat (IRC) server.
    > Nothing fancy. It has to be free, standalone and with logging.
    > Python based will be ideal.


    http://www.twistedmatrix.com/ seems to fit (except for the 'Nothing fancy').

    Daniel
    Daniel Dittmar, Jun 17, 2004
    #1
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  2. Daniel Dittmar

    Miki Tebeka Guest

    Hello All,

    I'm looking for a chat (IRC) server.
    Nothing fancy. It has to be free, standalone and with logging.
    Python based will be ideal.

    Any recommendations?
    Thanks.
    --
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Miki Tebeka <>
    The only difference between children and adults is the price of the toys.
    Miki Tebeka, Jun 17, 2004
    #2
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  3. Daniel Dittmar

    Hung Jung Lu Guest

    "Miki Tebeka" <> wrote:
    > I'm looking for a chat (IRC) server.
    > Nothing fancy. It has to be free, standalone and with logging.
    > Python based will be ideal.


    If you are serious about long term, you should probably use Jabber
    instead.

    http://www.jabber.org/

    On the server side, there are a few free servers. You can save the
    logs. Unfortunately, there are not Python based. There is one simple
    Python client. It usually is not difficult to tweak clients to suit
    your needs.

    A universal protocol is much more important than the programming
    language, in the long run. So Jabber might be good. Nonetheless, one
    thing I don't like about the Jabber community is that there is not
    much coordination in centralizing efforts, you see quite a bit of
    chaos. Jabber has a tremendous potential of becoming the de-facto
    standard for cluster computing communication, but most of the
    developers keep this dream of popularizing it to replace
    AOL/Microsoft/Yahoo messenger, or dreaming about all corporates using
    Jabber for instant messaging, which is totally unrealistic in the
    comming years, if ever. As for developers that want to use Jabber for
    cluster computing, there are no good/organized introductory tutorials,
    no good help manuals like Python. Jabber has been around for quite a
    while, but I guess lack of organization skills, and unrealistic dream
    of popularizing IM, is what has lead to its primitive state for
    developers. Yes, there are two books out there, but I've been told
    they are not good. There are thousands of Jabber developers out there,
    but somehow the lack of centralization means a lot of efforts are
    being wasted, and each person has his own little website, hundreds of
    low-quality clients that are useless for developers, and near total
    lack of usable documentation.

    I guess the chaos has a bit to do with Unix background of many people
    there. In the Windows world, people are used to the
    "click-click-click-done" philosophy, so they think about
    user-friendliness issues much more. In Unix world, when they say they
    are done with a software product, it actually means that you have to
    pull this library from here, download that virtual machine from that
    website, go and edit some paths and config files, cross your fingers
    and pray, download more libraries, repeat the process all over again a
    few times. With that kind of mentality, it is no surprise to see chaos
    and wasted efforts all over.

    regards,

    Hung Jung
    Hung Jung Lu, Jun 17, 2004
    #3
  4. Daniel Dittmar

    Josef Meile Guest

    Hi Miki,

    > I'm looking for a chat (IRC) server.
    > Nothing fancy. It has to be free, standalone and with logging.
    > Python based will be ideal.

    I was trying to do something similar one or two years ago with zope (a
    python based framework), but I quit trying because my approach slowed
    down the server. However, on that time, I also tried to find a python
    chat and this is what I found:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?q=c...selm=&rnum=176
    http://jabberpy.sourceforge.net/
    http://www.nightmare.com/medusa/programming.html
    http://www.amk.ca/python/howto/sockets/sockets.html
    http://sourceforge.net/projects/pygcs/

    I hope it hels.

    Regards,
    Josef
    Josef Meile, Jun 17, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <>,
    Hung Jung Lu <> wrote:
    >"Miki Tebeka" <> wrote:
    >> I'm looking for a chat (IRC) server.

    .
    .
    .
    >developers. Yes, there are two books out there, but I've been told
    >they are not good. There are thousands of Jabber developers out there,

    .
    [sociologic comments
    I find on-target, al-
    though incomplete]
    .
    .
    Hung Jung, please be more specific about the defects of the books.
    I know of four different ones, and I mildly favored one in <URL:
    http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=8217/ur0306c/ >. If it has
    defects I overlooked, I want to know, so as not to mislead readers
    or Miki.

    I've sure appreciated the technical content of your follow-ups, by
    the way.
    --

    Cameron Laird <>
    Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
    Cameron Laird, Jun 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Daniel Dittmar

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "Miki Tebeka" <> writes:
    > I'm looking for a chat (IRC) server.
    > Nothing fancy. It has to be free, standalone and with logging.
    > Python based will be ideal.


    Twisted (www.twistedmatrix.com) includes IRC server functions.
    Logging is normally done at the client, not the server.
    Logging at the server is disrespectful of user privacy, to say the least.
    Paul Rubin, Jun 19, 2004
    #6
  7. Daniel Dittmar

    Hung Jung Lu Guest

    (Cameron Laird) wrote:
    > Hung Jung, please be more specific about the defects of the books.
    > I know of four different ones, and I mildly favored one in <URL:
    > http://www.unixreview.com/documents/s=8217/ur0306c/ >. If it has
    > defects I overlooked, I want to know, so as not to mislead readers
    > or Miki.


    I haven't seen that book myself. The only book available in my local
    bookstores was:

    "Jabber Developer's Handbook", by Dana Moore, William Wright

    and that one I really did not like. I took a look at it in more than 5
    runs to the local bookstores. And overall I found it useless. I don't
    know how else to say it. I mean, if I pick up a book like "Learning
    Python," I get productive in 5 minutes. With this other book, I
    wouldn't be productive even after 5 days.

    I got replies in May from the Jabber Dev mailing list. Here is what
    people said:

    (1) "Most of the Jabber books ive seen have been out for quite a while
    and will I expect be very out of date for all but the most simplest
    things, I doubt its worth buying them. Richard"

    (2) "I found "Programming Jabber" by DJ Adams very informative, easy
    to read to not to far out of date. I do NOT recommend the other books,
    "Jabber Programming" by Lee and Smelser and Jabber Developer's
    Handbook by William Wright. Very confusing or little information,
    stick with Adams. With the Adams book, the JEPs, a client, 10 lines of
    python code and jabberd running in debug mode, you can explore jabber
    effectively. Well, that's what I did to learn about it for my non-IM
    based research project."

    So I guess I paid too much attention to the first person's comment. :(

    The second person's opinion seems in line with your recommendation, so
    that's good. I'll look into Adams' book. Thanks.

    Hung Jung
    Hung Jung Lu, Jun 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Daniel Dittmar

    Paul Rubin Guest

    (Hung Jung Lu) writes:
    > > I'm looking for a chat (IRC) server.
    > > Nothing fancy. It has to be free, standalone and with logging.
    > > Python based will be ideal.

    >
    > If you are serious about long term, you should probably use Jabber
    > instead.
    >
    > http://www.jabber.org/



    Why? IRC seems a lot better for chatting.
    Paul Rubin, Jun 20, 2004
    #8
  9. Daniel Dittmar

    Hung Jung Lu Guest

    Paul Rubin <http://> wrote:
    > > If you are serious about long term, you should probably use Jabber
    > > instead.
    > >
    > > http://www.jabber.org/

    >
    > Why? IRC seems a lot better for chatting.


    Perhaps this helps a little bit:

    http://www.jabber.org/about/overview.php

    Jabber is just more popular, and shows up more on my radar screen. I
    started to look into Jabber recently only after the suggestion of a
    guru net friend. I guess part of the reason is: (a) XML-based, (b)
    formalized standard. The XML-based may seem frivolous, but from what I
    have seen in the growth of popularity of XML-RPC through the years, I
    can see that it is a factor in people's choice, despite that they
    often don't touch the XML part themselves. Jabber is also gradually
    becoming a developer's tool. Dr. Dobb's Journal recently has an
    article on it. In fact, when one works with multiple computers, I
    think Jabber kind of becomes essential: what else is there for
    centralized monitoring that is open-source, easy to use,
    language-independent and platform-independent? Sure, XML-RPC may be
    the easiest way to make programs talk across computers, but Jabber
    takes care of many admin things for you: security, monitoring/logging,
    fault-tolerant, etc. Now, I know you are only interested in chatting,
    but maybe down the future you'd like to expand your system. Think
    about controlling computers by using the very same chat client. Why
    limit oneself to Person-to-Person conversations, when one can reserve
    the power of Person-to-Application and Application-to-Application
    conversations as well? The possibilities are endless. Also, I just
    don't see people graviting towards IRC. I see people graviting towards
    Jabber. E.g.: Mitch Kapor chose Jabber as the instant messenger (IM)
    for his open-source alternative ("Chandler") to Microsoft's Outlook
    (see http://osafoundation.org/Chandler-Product_FAQ.htm.) I could be
    wrong, but that's my overall impression.

    regards,

    Hung Jung
    Hung Jung Lu, Jun 21, 2004
    #9
  10. Daniel Dittmar

    Paul Rubin Guest

    (Hung Jung Lu) writes:
    > > Why? IRC seems a lot better for chatting.

    >
    > Perhaps this helps a little bit:
    >
    > http://www.jabber.org/about/overview.php


    All I see in there is a bunch of buzzwords. I'm unimpressed with most
    buzzwords, including "XML". Can you give a brief technical
    description of how Jabber works and how it's different from IRC?
    Right now I hang out on an IRC network (Undernet) that has hundreds of
    thousands of users chatting in real time. For example, #linux has a
    couple hundred users in 20 different countries, all blabbing away
    without too much lag most of the time. How well can Jabber scale to
    that kind of load?
    Paul Rubin, Jun 21, 2004
    #10
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