OT: game programmer SALARY

B

Bo

Hi

I will discuss job offer with a game company soon. Please post how
much I should bargain for.

-job title: port engineer (j2me, Brew phone games)
-at San Francisco

Me:
-fresh out of college
-I think they hired me because I made an impressive 3D engine in Java.
But because '3d engine programmer' pays more than people who ports,
they will still offer the job to me as a port engineer.
-If there is info on '3d engine programmer' for phones please provide
it.

thnx!
 
S

Scott Ellsworth

Hi

I will discuss job offer with a game company soon. Please post how
much I should bargain for.

Good luck, and congrats. This would be many people's dream job.
-job title: port engineer (j2me, Brew phone games)
-at San Francisco

Ok - the very best thing you can do is ask friends who graduated the
year before with your major and grades what they are getting. They may
tell, they may not.

Why your major and your grades? Because many companies will determine
what they pay based on what they think they can get you for. If you
came out with a physics degree, as I did, then they are going to rightly
assume that you are less inundated with job offers than the engineering
students down the hall. You can often work around that, but it is darn
good to know what salary is being paid to people who look like you do to
a recruiter.

Then, try to guess whether the company is about the norm for the
industry, or perhaps a bit cash starved, or perhaps flush. A good way
to tell is to scan the desks of the people you interview with. Is the
equipment reasonably up to date? Do they have lots of reference books?
Ask about conferences people have gone to? At most places I consult
for, ref books are common, only senior people go to conferences, and two
year old equipment is still in very active use.

Assuming about the norm, then try looking up salary surveys. They tend
to be a bit unreliable, as the categories are often a bit screwy, but
they might help. For example, at many companies, an analyst gets paid
more than a programmer, as analysts design, while programmers implement
methods given an exact spec. At others, they have the job title, but
there is little meaning to it.
Me:
-fresh out of college

In all honesty, you are going to learn so much in the first two years
that it almost does not matter what you make, as long as it is
reasonable for the industry, and they are doing something that can be
applied to the next job. That next job may be with the same people, or
with different ones.

Thus, try to make something reasonable compared with your compatriots,
but concentrate on the tools, the techniques, and whether the job and
the people sound like a good fit.

Whatever you do, though, get any extra cookies in writing, like "I will
get 5% raise in six months if my code meets objective performance
criteria negotiated in the first two weeks. This is seperate from my
annual review." or "I will be sent to JavaOne each year on company time
and money." or "I will be given unpaid leave to go to JavaOne each year
without counting against my vacation and sick time." Again, negotiate
for what matters, but try to make it really clear just what you expect,
and what you provide.
-I think they hired me because I made an impressive 3D engine in Java.
But because '3d engine programmer' pays more than people who ports,
they will still offer the job to me as a port engineer.

Also, until you have proven yourself on their code base, they may want
their own engine guy to keep an eye on you. Many who have written great
code do a terrible job on a team.
-If there is info on '3d engine programmer' for phones please provide
it.

Do be aware - that platform is inexpensive, so the bucks rarely roll in.
On the plus side, a company can sell a lot of different products rather
than one massive one. Try to find out how many projects you are going
to be working on, how long they last, and how they are reviewed. This
goes a long way towards keeping you sane.

Scott
 
T

Tom Sloper

Bo said:
I will discuss job offer with a game company soon. Please post how
much I should bargain for.
-fresh out of college

Bo, read the game industry Salary Survey at
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20040211/olsen_01.shtml
If you have to register to access that site, DO IT.
You do not have any bargaining power. They'll make you an offer. TAKE IT.
You can always "bargain" with the next employer.

Good luck getting the job - Tom

--

Tom Sloper - Game Designer, Producer, Consultant
- Sloperama Productions. Services for game developers and publishers;
"Making Games Fun, And Getting Them Done."
http://www.sloperama.com/business.html.
- Helpful information for game industry hopefuls; a new article every month.
http://www.sloperama.com/advice.html.
 
Y

Yakov

Send your resume to several job agencies. If they will call you back,
ask them what's would be a reasonable salary for a person with your
skills. If nobody calls you back, this means that your chances of
getting any job are slim, so tell your gaming company that you are
open for any fair offer and take it!

Regards,
Yakov
 
M

Miss Elaine Eos

I will discuss job offer with a game company soon. Please post how
much I should bargain for.

Good luck, and congrats. This would be many people's dream job.
-job title: port engineer (j2me, Brew phone games)
-at San Francisco

Ok - the very best thing you can do is ask friends who graduated the
year before with your major and grades what they are getting. They may
tell, they may not.[/QUOTE]

Or you could ask the HR person at the company "what is the salary range
for this position?"

There's really nothing you can do about it, anyway -- but if you know
that the range is from X to Y, you can at least get a feel for what they
think of your skills by where they offer you in that range.

While I agree with the other poster that ~40k is about right for a
college hire, they might try to come in slightly below that, on the
thought that giving you a raise from 39,800 to 40,200, while it's
ridiculously small (1%), has a large "feel" to it, in that it crosses
the 40k boundary.

Also, don't get caught up in nit-picky -- if you want 40k and they're
offering 39,800, don't make a big deal over $200/yr ($4/week!) What you
MIGHT do, if they offer less than you indicate you'd like, is ask "what
incentive programs are available to me to help me make up the difference
(bonuses, etc), and what do I have to do to get them?"

The question's not as flip as it may sound -- if a company thinks you're
worth $35k and you think you're worth $45k, but they obviously feel that
SOMEONE is worth $45k (or more -- even $55k!), ask point blank "what
skills do I need to demonstrate to be the kind of person that you pay
$55k?" Or, if you're feeling fancy, "I feel I'm worth $45k, and I'd
like a chance to prove it to you. Tell me what skills I need to
demonstrate in the first three months in order to get a retroactive
salary increase." (No one will offer you a retroactive salary increase,
but they may be willing to offer a normal increase, and a bonus for the
difference.)

The point is: everything is negotiable. Don't try to over-sell what you
have, and don't let them try to under-bid what they're getting.

Luck!
 
R

Raghar

(e-mail address removed) (Bo) wrote in
Hi

I will discuss job offer with a game company soon. Please post
how much I should bargain for.

You shouldn't if is it your first job. (Of course if you are
dealing with people that would like to have a new house... And your
low sallary would add a little money for that...)
-job title: port engineer (j2me, Brew phone games)
-at San Francisco

Me:
-fresh out of college
-I think they hired me because I made an impressive 3D engine in
Java. But because '3d engine programmer' pays more than people
who ports, they will still offer the job to me as a port
engineer. -If there is info on '3d engine programmer' for phones
please provide it.

thnx!

They should teach you write sentences more gently. It looks like
letter from 16 year old baseball player.

Of course if they would pay you enough for food, rent, and a little
savings, it would be nice.
 
P

Phlip

Lin said:
If it is, you may want to stay away:

http://www.ferrago.com/story/2366

Read the comments.

Ouch. Someone has the bad kind of money addiction there.

My advice to the OP is to take the job, for whatever pay, and then
_immediately_ start looking for the next job. Use that shop as leverage and
resume fodder, not as a carreer path. Some bosses simply cannot be trusted,
whether or not their company is successful.

(Wish I had taken that advice myself a while back!)
 
S

Signal9

Raghar said:
(e-mail address removed) (Bo) wrote in


You shouldn't if is it your first job. (Of course if you are
dealing with people that would like to have a new house... And your
low sallary would add a little money for that...)


They should teach you write sentences more gently. It looks like
letter from 16 year old baseball player.

Of course if they would pay you enough for food, rent, and a little
savings, it would be nice.


Well do not be too upset but game developers make the least amount of
money in the industry. But I will tell you one important fact.... Do
what you enjoy !

if you want to be a game developer then do so ! do not get hung up on
the money right away...

I also did game development in school, wrote a DX9 game engine in C++
(took around 3 months to learn DX9 API and then write the engine, with
sound and other components), but when i finished school I decided it
was better to write enterprise level business applications.
 
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career in gaming

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