OT: Good introduction to CPU/Memory terms

Discussion in 'C Programming' started by Seeker, Jun 29, 2006.

  1. Seeker

    Seeker Guest

    When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    head swings because I don't understand a word. Is there some nice
    tutorial that can teach that stuff?
     
    Seeker, Jun 29, 2006
    #1
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  2. Seeker said:

    > When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    > head swings because I don't understand a word.


    Mostly you don't need to know it anyway, not to write C programs.

    > Is there some nice tutorial that can teach that stuff?


    I don't know of any *nice* ones, in the warm fluffy sense. But "The Art of
    Assembly Language" is legally available online for free. It may or may not
    be what you're looking for.

    --
    Richard Heathfield
    "Usenet is a strange place" - dmr 29/7/1999
    http://www.cpax.org.uk
    email: rjh at above domain (but drop the www, obviously)
     
    Richard Heathfield, Jun 29, 2006
    #2
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  3. Seeker wrote:
    > When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    > head swings because I don't understand a word. Is there some nice
    > tutorial that can teach that stuff?


    www.google.com

    Robert Gamble
     
    Robert Gamble, Jun 29, 2006
    #3
  4. Seeker

    santosh Guest

    Seeker wrote:
    > When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    > head swings because I don't understand a word. Is there some nice
    > tutorial that can teach that stuff?


    As Richard has mentioned, the 'Art of Assembly Langauge' available at
    the URL below does an admirable job of introducing x86, 32 bit,
    application oriented assembly programming. It only deals superficially
    with Operating System related aspects like Paging etc.

    <http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/>

    Just Google for the terms that confuse you. Many links have excellent
    information. However without some knowledge of Mathematics and Physics,
    you're bound to be frustrated.
     
    santosh, Jun 29, 2006
    #4
  5. Seeker

    Skarmander Guest

    santosh wrote:
    > Seeker wrote:
    >> When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    >> head swings because I don't understand a word. Is there some nice
    >> tutorial that can teach that stuff?

    >
    > As Richard has mentioned, the 'Art of Assembly Langauge' available at
    > the URL below does an admirable job of introducing x86, 32 bit,
    > application oriented assembly programming. It only deals superficially
    > with Operating System related aspects like Paging etc.
    >
    > <http://webster.cs.ucr.edu/>
    >
    > Just Google for the terms that confuse you. Many links have excellent
    > information. However without some knowledge of Mathematics and Physics,
    > you're bound to be frustrated.
    >

    No knowledge of physics is required to understand the concepts he mentioned,
    and no more knowledge of mathematics is required than what you learn in
    elementary school. The smidgeons of discrete mathematics you'll need that
    you probably haven't had in elementary school (boolean algebra, mostly) are
    easy to pick up.

    To understand the entirety of processor design does require a good deal of
    both, but that's probably not what he's asking.

    S.
     
    Skarmander, Jun 29, 2006
    #5
  6. Seeker

    Seeker Guest

    Richard Heathfield <> wrote in
    news::

    > Mostly you don't need to know it anyway, not to write C
    > programs.
    >


    That's what the OT was in the topic for :)

    >> Is there some nice tutorial that can teach that stuff?

    >
    > I don't know of any *nice* ones, in the warm fluffy sense. But
    > "The Art of Assembly Language" is legally available online for
    > free. It may or may not be what you're looking for.
    >


    It is definitely an interesting read, I've not read it all yet. But
    it's specifically targeted at x86. I want something broader; I was
    always interested in console emulators (8-16 bit). I've found some
    tech docs and I've got the source code for some emulators so i want
    to see how they work, but the technical docs describing the system
    talk about registers, ports, pages, memory, addressing modes as if
    they're well-understood terms. And of course we're not talking about
    x86 there.

    So I was basically looking for an intro to that stuff that will make
    it easier to move from CPU to CPU.
     
    Seeker, Jun 29, 2006
    #6
  7. Seeker

    Seeker Guest

    "Robert Gamble" <> wrote in
    news::

    > www.google.com
    >


    What is this? Is it a "search engine" or something? I keep hearing
    about them. They must be catching on. I'm too reluctant to use one
    yet though.
     
    Seeker, Jun 29, 2006
    #7
  8. Seeker wrote:
    > "Robert Gamble" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > www.google.com
    > >

    >
    > What is this? Is it a "search engine" or something? I keep hearing
    > about them. They must be catching on. I'm too reluctant to use one
    > yet though.


    Apparently.

    Robert Gamble
     
    Robert Gamble, Jun 29, 2006
    #8
  9. Seeker

    Ian Collins Guest

    Seeker wrote:
    >
    > So I was basically looking for an intro to that stuff that will make
    > it easier to move from CPU to CPU.


    google for 8051 programmers manual, it will give you a good introduction
    to a venerable and still popular 8 bit micro.

    --
    Ian Collins.
     
    Ian Collins, Jun 29, 2006
    #9
  10. Seeker

    pete Guest

    Seeker wrote:
    >
    > "Robert Gamble" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > > www.google.com
    > >

    >
    > What is this? Is it a "search engine" or something? I keep hearing
    > about them. They must be catching on. I'm too reluctant to use one
    > yet though.


    You may only act like it's your first day on the internet,
    for one day.
    After that, you turn into a troll.

    --
    pete
     
    pete, Jun 30, 2006
    #10
  11. Seeker

    Seeker Guest

    pete <> wrote in news:44A45BA2.5DA1
    @mindspring.com:

    > You may only act like it's your first day on the internet,
    > for one day.
    > After that, you turn into a troll.
    >


    It was a joke.
     
    Seeker, Jun 30, 2006
    #11
  12. Seeker

    Flash Gordon Guest

    Seeker wrote:
    > Richard Heathfield <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    >> Mostly you don't need to know it anyway, not to write C
    >> programs.

    >
    > That's what the OT was in the topic for :)


    Since you know it is OT, why not ask somewhere it is topical instead?

    >>> Is there some nice tutorial that can teach that stuff?

    >> I don't know of any *nice* ones, in the warm fluffy sense. But
    >> "The Art of Assembly Language" is legally available online for
    >> free. It may or may not be what you're looking for.

    >
    > It is definitely an interesting read, I've not read it all yet. But
    > it's specifically targeted at x86. I want something broader; I was


    <snip>

    > So I was basically looking for an intro to that stuff that will make
    > it easier to move from CPU to CPU.


    Then completely forget about *all* of that stuff and just write standard
    C. Or standard Java. Or standard any language that is available across a
    wide enough range of systems.
    --
    Flash Gordon, living in interesting times.
    Web site - http://home.flash-gordon.me.uk/
    comp.lang.c posting guidelines and intro:
    http://clc-wiki.net/wiki/Intro_to_clc
     
    Flash Gordon, Jun 30, 2006
    #12
  13. Seeker

    Morris Dovey Guest

    Re: [OT] Good introduction to CPU/Memory terms

    Seeker (in Xns97F1F0AE65638hpnajfvgnphrk@193.92.150.76) said:

    | When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    | head swings because I don't understand a word. Is there some nice
    | tutorial that can teach that stuff?

    The Google suggestion is probably good - but if you can't find
    tutorials that answer your questions you might consider asking about
    each term (one at a time) in news.comp.arch.embedded - and as a last
    resort, e-mail your question to me. I'll either reply with a short
    answer or with a link.

    I'm also interested in hearing about any helpful tutorials you find.

    --
    Morris Dovey
    DeSoto Solar
    DeSoto, Iowa USA
    http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
     
    Morris Dovey, Jun 30, 2006
    #13
  14. Seeker

    Seeker Guest

    Flash Gordon <> wrote in
    news:-gordon.me.uk:

    > Then completely forget about *all* of that stuff and just write
    > standard C. Or standard Java. Or standard any language that is
    > available across a wide enough range of systems.
    >


    Well, the systems I'm interested in didn't have C or Java. They were
    programmed in assembly only.

    I asked here because it's a group frequented by programmers who
    mostly know lots about low-level programming. If you don't like OT
    posts you're free to ignore them.
     
    Seeker, Jun 30, 2006
    #14
  15. Seeker wrote:
    > When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    > head swings because I don't understand a word. Is there some nice
    > tutorial that can teach that stuff?


    Yes. It's called "college". A tutorial is just about all it is these
    days.


    Mark F. Haigh
     
    Mark F. Haigh, Jun 30, 2006
    #15
  16. Seeker

    Chris Dollin Guest

    Seeker wrote:

    > I asked here because it's a group frequented by programmers who
    > mostly know lots about low-level programming. If you don't like OT
    > posts you're free to ignore them.


    We're also free to complain that they're off-topic. We don't /want/
    to have to ignore off-topic posts; we'd prefer that they weren't
    made or, if made in error, that the poster accepts redirection.

    At some point the effort of ignoring OT posts - no, it /isn't/
    free - outweighs the value of the group. We'd prefer that didn't
    happen.

    Acknowledging that you did wrong doesn't make it right.

    --
    Chris "two wrongs don't make a rite" Dollin
    "No-one here is exactly what he appears." G'kar, /Babylon 5/
     
    Chris Dollin, Jun 30, 2006
    #16
  17. Seeker

    osmium Guest

    Re: Good introduction to CPU/Memory terms

    "Seeker" writes:

    > When I read about registers, pages in memory, offsets, all that, my
    > head swings because I don't understand a word. Is there some nice
    > tutorial that can teach that stuff?


    I have, but have never read, this book and I have no idea what you already
    know, but take a look at the reviews. They should let you know if you want
    to pursue this book, it is _Code_ by Charles Petzold. I don't think it goes
    into paging, aka virtual memory, but any write up on paging is going to
    assume you already know the stuff in this book. The Wikipedia entry on
    paging is brief and, unfortunately, has no bibliography but it is still a
    good starting point.

    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0735611319/104-5670269-5348738?v=glance&n=283155
     
    osmium, Jun 30, 2006
    #17
  18. Seeker

    Seeker Guest

    Re: Good introduction to CPU/Memory terms

    "osmium" <> wrote in news:4gkjguF1mfimvU1
    @individual.net:

    > I don't think it goes
    > into paging, aka virtual memory


    I thought paging is not virtual memory. That's what I understood from
    the wikipedia article at least.
     
    Seeker, Jun 30, 2006
    #18
  19. Seeker

    Morris Dovey Guest

    Re: [OT]Good introduction to CPU/Memory terms

    Seeker (in Xns97F2AC5D0529Ehpnajfvgnphrk@193.92.150.76) said:

    | "osmium" <> wrote in news:4gkjguF1mfimvU1
    | @individual.net:
    |
    || I don't think it goes
    || into paging, aka virtual memory
    |
    | I thought paging is not virtual memory. That's what I understood
    | from the wikipedia article at least.

    On some systems, when resident (physical) pages are all in use, page
    swapping (to/from external storage) is initiated. There are also
    systems in which there is more memory than can be addressed, so
    physical memory areas (pages) are mapped into/out of the address space
    without involving external devices.

    --
    Morris Dovey
    DeSoto Solar
    DeSoto, Iowa USA
    http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
     
    Morris Dovey, Jun 30, 2006
    #19
  20. Seeker

    Joe Wright Guest

    Seeker wrote:
    > pete <> wrote in news:44A45BA2.5DA1
    > @mindspring.com:
    >
    >> You may only act like it's your first day on the internet,
    >> for one day.
    >> After that, you turn into a troll.
    >>

    >
    > It was a joke.


    No, it was a bomb. Jokes are funny.

    --
    Joe Wright
    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
    --- Albert Einstein ---
     
    Joe Wright, Jun 30, 2006
    #20
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