ot: please test my experimental site

Discussion in 'HTML' started by picayunish, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    picayunish, Dec 26, 2003
    #1
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  2. Hywel Jenkins, Dec 26, 2003
    #2
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  3. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Hywel Jenkins wrote:

    > In article <WQWGb.4863$7U1.57909@amstwist00>,
    > says...
    >
    >>Good day,
    >>
    >>I have made a page with a browser detection (no cookies) to activate the
    >>right style sheet.
    >>
    >>Can somebody test my experimental page on a mac?
    >>http://www.evandervaart.nl/test.php

    >
    >
    > There's not JavaScript on that page. What is it supposed to do?


    I have used a server side script to activate a style sheet for e.g. IE,
    Gecko base or other browsers.
    I have the page tested on a Windows machine.
    My question is does the page work on a Mac?
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 26, 2003
    #3
  4. picayunish

    Spartanicus Guest

    picayunish wrote:

    >I have made a page with a browser detection (no cookies) to activate the
    >right style sheet.


    It appears to use User Agent sniffing and consequently it fails, I get
    other.css using Mozilla.

    My UA string: "Code to W3C standards and stop that idiotic browser
    sniffing (My OS; U) [en]"

    Ps, there's a hint in that string.

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Dec 26, 2003
    #4
  5. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Spartanicus schreef:

    > picayunish wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have made a page with a browser detection (no cookies) to activate the
    >>right style sheet.

    >
    >
    > It appears to use User Agent sniffing and consequently it fails, I get
    > other.css using Mozilla.


    Yes, I use User Agent sniffering.
    If you mean it fails, when using Mozilla / Firebird and set the UA
    switch as Opera. Then you get other.css ?

    When you have UA set as IE, you get ie.css
    When you have UA set as Netscape or Mozilla, you get gecko.css

    > "... stop that idiotic browser sniffing ..."


    Why stop sniffering?
    I'm trying to understand what sniffering is and how to use a server side
    script for the sniffering instead of using that *bloody Cookies*.

    Me I experiment with sniffering to learn or may I not develop my skills.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 26, 2003
    #5
  6. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:
    > picayunish wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I have made a page with a browser detection (no cookies) to activate the
    >>right style sheet.

    >
    >
    > It appears to use User Agent sniffing and consequently it fails, I get
    > other.css using Mozilla.


    When using Opera you get other.css
    The other browser the UA detection works perfectly.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 26, 2003
    #6
  7. picayunish

    Spartanicus Guest

    picayunish wrote:

    >> It appears to use User Agent sniffing and consequently it fails, I get
    >> other.css using Mozilla.

    >
    >When using Opera you get other.css
    >The other browser the UA detection works perfectly.


    It breaks ridiculously easily.

    There is no need to serve different style sheets, there are well known
    hacks to hide css from NS4 and IE if needed, as a last resort you could
    resort to using conditional comments for IE.

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Dec 26, 2003
    #7
  8. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:
    > picayunish wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>It appears to use User Agent sniffing and consequently it fails, I get
    >>>other.css using Mozilla.

    >>
    >>When using Opera you get other.css
    >>The other browser the UA detection works perfectly.

    >
    >
    > It breaks ridiculously easily.
    >
    > There is no need to serve different style sheets, there are well known
    > hacks to hide css from NS4 and IE if needed, as a last resort you could
    > resort to using conditional comments for IE.


    I know that there are hack to hide css from NS4 and IE.
    But what I really wanted is that different presentation of the page for
    each browser. The positioning of the lay-out are common.
    That's why I thought about detection of the browser.
    On the page there will be alternative style sheet, by changing the style
    sheet in the style option of the browser or by changing on the page it self.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 27, 2003
    #8
  9. picayunish wrote:
    > Good day,
    > I have made a page with a browser detection (no cookies) to activate the
    > right style sheet.
    > Can somebody test my experimental page on a mac?
    > http://www.evandervaart.nl/test.php
    > And tell my what kind of style sheet you see?


    On Safari and Netscape 7 (Mac) I see the links in red, meaning that the
    stylesheet (gecko.css) does work.

    --
    François de Dardel
    --
    http://mapage.noos.fr/dardelf/
    dardelf_hostedby_noos_dot_fr
    Utilisez mon adresse sur noos seulement
    Use only my noos e-mail
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Fran=E7ois_de_Dardel?=, Dec 27, 2003
    #9
  10. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    François de Dardel wrote:
    > picayunish wrote:
    >
    >> Good day,
    >> I have made a page with a browser detection (no cookies) to activate
    >> the right style sheet.
    >> Can somebody test my experimental page on a mac?
    >> http://www.evandervaart.nl/test.php
    >> And tell my what kind of style sheet you see?

    >
    >
    > On Safari and Netscape 7 (Mac) I see the links in red, meaning that the
    > stylesheet (gecko.css) does work.


    Tanks François de Dardel.
    Now I know that the script works :) on a Mac.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 27, 2003
    #10
  11. picayunish

    Spartanicus Guest

    picayunish wrote:

    >I know that there are hack to hide css from NS4 and IE.
    >But what I really wanted is that different presentation of the page for
    >each browser.


    Why?

    >The positioning of the lay-out are common.
    >That's why I thought about detection of the browser.


    It doesn't work anywhere near reliably, why implement something that
    breaks so easily?

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Dec 27, 2003
    #11
  12. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:
    > picayunish wrote:
    >
    >
    >>I know that there are hack to hide css from NS4 and IE.
    >>But what I really wanted is that different presentation of the page for
    >>each browser.

    >
    > Why?


    Because I gone use e.g. Comic MS as font for IE, Isabella for NS, etc.
    Is there a hack to hide css for all Opera versions?


    >>The positioning of the lay-out are common.
    >>That's why I thought about detection of the browser.

    >
    > It doesn't work anywhere near reliably, why implement something that
    > breaks so easily?


    Why not?
    Because you can break it easily by using an other UA then the original
    UA of the browser (standard UA).
    Why did you have set Opera UA in a Mozilla browser?
    Do you hate browser sniffering, cookies and JavaScripts?
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 27, 2003
    #12
  13. picayunish

    Spartanicus Guest

    picayunish wrote:

    >>>I know that there are hack to hide css from NS4 and IE.
    >>>But what I really wanted is that different presentation of the page for
    >>>each browser.

    >>
    >> Why?

    >
    >Because I gone use e.g. Comic MS as font for IE, Isabella for NS, etc.


    Why?

    >Is there a hack to hide css for all Opera versions?


    Why?

    >>>The positioning of the lay-out are common.
    >>>That's why I thought about detection of the browser.

    >>
    >> It doesn't work anywhere near reliably, why implement something that
    >> breaks so easily?

    >
    >Why not?


    Because there are better methods to do this in the unlikely event that
    you have a valid reason to do what you want.

    >Because you can break it easily by using an other UA then the original
    >UA of the browser (standard UA).
    >Why did you have set Opera UA in a Mozilla browser?


    I didn't, I said that I got other.css with Mozilla, the word Opera
    doesn't appear anywhere in my UA string. It's a demonstration that your
    method doesn't work.

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Dec 27, 2003
    #13
  14. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:
    >
    >>Is there a hack to hide css for all Opera versions?

    >
    > Why?


    Why does bananas grows on trees?
    Why does men say a banana-tree instead of banana-brush?

    >>>>The positioning of the lay-out are common.
    >>>>That's why I thought about detection of the browser.
    >>>
    >>>It doesn't work anywhere near reliably, why implement something that
    >>>breaks so easily?

    >>
    >>Why not?

    >
    >
    > Because there are better methods to do this in the unlikely event that
    > you have a valid reason to do what you want.
    >
    >
    >>Because you can break it easily by using an other UA then the original
    >>UA of the browser (standard UA).
    >>Why did you have set Opera UA in a Mozilla browser?

    >
    >
    > I didn't, I said that I got other.css with Mozilla, the word Opera
    > doesn't appear anywhere in my UA string. It's a demonstration that your
    > method doesn't work.


    That's strange, because I tested with Firebird and I get gecko.css when
    I have set the UA as Mozilla, Netscape or as default.
    I even tested with Opera and set the UA as Moz 3.0, Moz 4.8, IE 6.0 or
    as default the script works perfectly.
    I.m.o the script isn't broken.

    Did you or didn't visited the page?
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 27, 2003
    #14
  15. picayunish

    Spartanicus Guest

    picayunish wrote:

    >>>Is there a hack to hide css for all Opera versions?

    >>
    >> Why?

    >
    >Why does bananas grows on trees?
    >Why does men say a banana-tree instead of banana-brush?


    Excuse me while I pull out of this thread, I'm having difficulty
    stooping to your level. Please don't alter your nick until you get a
    clue about authoring for the web.

    --
    Spartanicus
    Spartanicus, Dec 28, 2003
    #15
  16. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Spartanicus wrote:

    > picayunish wrote:
    >
    >>I know that there are hack to hide css from NS4 and IE.
    >>But what I really wanted is that different presentation of the page for
    >>each browser.

    >
    > Why?


    Because this is my last phase of changing style sheet.
    Everybody knows an alternative style sheet, you can select a different
    style sheet with "use style" in NS or "style" in Moz/Firebird.

    This can also be done with a javascript or server side script. When
    clicking on a link you can change the style sheet from e.g. standard
    (default of the page) into an other. An example page at
    http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/

    So my last phase of learning how to set the style sheet for each browser
    type by detecting the kind of browser the visitor have. I also consider
    to use alternative style sheet so that the visitor can change the style
    sheet if he/she wants to.
    Also I wanted to know if UA detection works.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 28, 2003
    #16
  17. picayunish

    kchayka Guest

    picayunish wrote:
    >
    > I tested with Firebird and I get gecko.css when
    > I have set the UA as Mozilla, Netscape or as default.


    Here is my Firebird UA string:
    Mozilla/x (MyOS; MyBrowserIsMyBusiness) YouDontNeedToKnow 1.0

    This ended up with other.css. If I change the Firebird UA to look like
    some flavor of IE, gets ie.css. Shouldn't it always get gecko.css?

    Consider for a moment that someone who changes their UA string will
    probably make it look like a different browser altogether, not just
    another variation of the same browser. Folks often do this precisely
    because of the type of browser sniffing you are attempting. Clueless
    authors look for a very limited number of browsers, when it comes across
    anything else the script will likely do something undesireable.

    > I even tested with Opera and set the UA as Moz 3.0, Moz 4.8, IE 6.0 or
    > as default the script works perfectly.


    It works perfectly if you believe what the UA string tells you. The
    problem is that the UA may lie. My Opera identifying as IE gets ie.css.
    This is probably wrong. Netscape 4.x getting a gecko.css is probably
    wrong, too.

    > I.m.o the script isn't broken.


    If your goal is just to parse the UA string, it isn't broken. If your
    goal is to identify the actual browser, then it is indeed broken.

    --
    To email a reply, remove (dash)un(dash). Mail sent to the un
    address is considered spam and automatically deleted.
    kchayka, Dec 28, 2003
    #17
  18. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    kchayka wrote:

    [snip]

    > If your goal is just to parse the UA string, it isn't broken. If your
    > goal is to identify the actual browser, then it is indeed broken.


    My goal isn't to identify the actual browser.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 28, 2003
    #18
  19. picayunish

    picayunish Guest

    Thanx to the negative responds.
    I quiet, end this thread.

    This is an example of a browser detection with js.
    http://www.quirksmode.org/js/detect.html

    A list of UA for mobile.
    http://www.mobileopera.com/reference/general

    Next time if there this detection script will shown.
    Please explain why not to use the script and give some sample site to
    under build your statement.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    picayunish, Dec 28, 2003
    #19
  20. picayunish

    kchayka Guest

    picayunish wrote:

    > kchayka wrote:
    >
    >> If your goal is just to parse the UA string, it isn't broken. If your
    >> goal is to identify the actual browser, then it is indeed broken.

    >
    > My goal isn't to identify the actual browser.


    Then it doesn't make any sense to use a browser-specific stylesheet.
    CSS that "works" for one browser may not in another. I didn't look at
    the actual code in any of those stylesheets, but if there are any
    platform-specific or browser-specific property values based on what the
    UA string claims it is, you are going down the wrong path.

    If the UA lies about what it is, what are you really achieving?

    --
    To email a reply, remove (dash)un(dash). Mail sent to the un
    address is considered spam and automatically deleted.
    kchayka, Dec 28, 2003
    #20
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