OT - to non USA folks

[Neal]

Then why is it here?

Why not? It's clearly marked OT. Obviously, OT is not "on topic", it would
just be sily to mark our posts as "on topic"! Since it is Off Topic, you
can use whatever feature exists in your newsreader to ignore the topic.

In mine, I create a plonk filter on the subject. On yours, it may be
different.

 

[Neal]

Neal said:
tough? its easy to kill civilians, whats so tough about it? they don't
even shoot back.

Yeah, but civies cry a lot more. That's disconcerting.

 

[Neal]

Even said last night (-more or less jokingly) that half the people
in the US must be STUPID.

Which half?

And if you don't mind my asking - how the hell do you spell your name when
you're drunk?

 

[brucie]

In alt.html Neal said:

Yeah, but civies cry a lot more. That's disconcerting.

living with the guilt is the tough part.

 

[hyweljenkins]

I'm glad Bush won, he's the only one with the guts to make the hard
decisions.

Yeah, right. He's a fscking draft-dodging retard. He's a gutless
pussy. What tough decisions has he made? Why did he send fewer troops
to Afghanistan that there are police in Manhattan? What's his service
record like? Any fool can make "hard decisions" sitting in an office
in Washington. Never thought I'd say it, but thank fsck that Tony
Blair is a damn sight more intelligent. Christ, my cats are smarter
that Dubya.

Did you vote because of abortion or gay rights? Two extremely worthy
causes to base an election on.

 

[Jim Higson]

Hard decisions - like which non-existent threat he wants to drum up so we
can invade another country and take their oil.

Talking of non existent (or at least very exagerated) threats, did any
USAians get to see The Power of Nightmares, aired in the UK recently?

torrents:
http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2842/The_Power_Of_Nightmares_pt1-avi.torrent
http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2903/Power of Nightmares 2-avi.torrent
http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2946/The Power of Nightmares 3 of 3 VCD-mpg.torrent

 

[kchayka]

Am I misinformed, or did the states that Bush won tend to be the ones that
most US troops come from? Seems there's a lot of people in the midwest
don't much like their kids...

<sarcasm>Statements like Karl's sure do a lot to boost morale for those
who are out there defending their country.</sarcasm>

Whether you agree with Bush's policy or not, and contrary to propaganda
like Michael Moore spewed forth, the overwhelming majority of armed
forces personnel - US, Iraqi or otherwise - believe they are doing The
Right Thing. It would be wrong not to stand up for them. This ain't Viet
Nam, you know. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

BTW, I live in the midwest. I show my support for our troops with
donations and volunteer work. And frankly, Kerry's naive view of the
world scared the crap out of me. Words can't adequately express how
relieved I am that he lost.

 

[Jeff Thies]

Don't read too much into the stock market reactions. Often the stock
market reacts positively once a period of high tension is over. It might
not at all be a reflection on any candidate.

Lets say you do take stock in the stock market.

Where are the three major american indices after 4 years of George Bush?

Yes Bush can take credit for the same results as happened to the budget
surplus, the jobs creation record (even in his cherry picked 13 months
the employment never grew as fast as the natural growth of new workers
attempting to enter the system), the price of healthcare, the price of
oil, the value of the dollar and the trade deficit. A sterling record
and one Osama should delight in.

But boy can he identify a countries enemies and go after them. Reminds
me of another chap that had that same steel hard bulldog determination
too. The same methodology of attacking his enemies, dividing his country
and the same knack for manipulating facts and ignoring the consequences
of his actions. But it was war and the populace cheered.

Jeff

 

[Karl Core]

<sarcasm>Statements like Karl's sure do a lot to boost morale for those
who are out there defending their country.</sarcasm>

I served in the US Army Infantry during the first Gulf War.
Every single man on my father's side of my family has served in the US
Military during wartime, starting as far back (or farther) than the Civil
War.

Spare me the civil service lecture.

-Karl

 

[Liz]

In message <[email protected]>

[expressing his sorrow at the recent election result]
Having been in the US two weeks ago, I have to say I was astounded at the
result.
But then again, I was in Vermont.

Slainte

Liz

 

[Greg Schmidt]

<sarcasm>Statements like Karl's sure do a lot to boost morale for those
who are out there defending their country.</sarcasm>

Whether you agree with Bush's policy or not, and contrary to propaganda
like Michael Moore spewed forth, the overwhelming majority of armed
forces personnel - US, Iraqi or otherwise - believe they are doing The
Right Thing.

Okay, but that's a self-selecting sample. Most of them signed up because
they believe this is the right thing. Those who disagree probably see the
casualty lists and thank their lucky stars they were smart enough not to
get into it. Also, I'm not so sure I really want to trust the moral
judgements of people like those from Abu Ghraib.

It would be wrong not to stand up for them.

Well, being Canadian, I don't feel that I have to stand up for your troops.
But I do sympathize. They are being stuck in a bad situation by a guy who
has his head in the sand, and their parents just voted to leave them there
for another four years.

BTW, I live in the midwest. I show my support for our troops with
donations and volunteer work.

Your troops are so underfunded that you need to support them with
donations? Good thing you got those tax cuts so you can give the money
right back to where it would probably have gone if the taxes had been left
alone. But this way you get to feel good about making a difference,
instead of complaining about high taxes. Sounds like a win-win for the
government.

And frankly, Kerry's naive view of the
world scared the crap out of me.

Which part of his world view was that? The part that said that going after
a WMD-less Saddam instead of Bin Laden was a mistake? The part about
planning ahead before invading? The part about leading by example instead
of alienating allies? Hmm, that sounds almost like a Canadian attitude.
Canada, BTW, has long enjoyed better global opinion than the US, and has
not had a foreign attack on home soil since the war of 1812. Maybe not
such a bad attitude after all.

Words can't adequately express how
relieved I am that he lost.

Nor can they adequately express how terrified I am for your country and the
rest of the world.

 

[Jim Higson]

the overwhelming majority of armed
forces personnel - US, Iraqi or otherwise - believe they are doing The
Right Thing. It would be wrong not to stand up for them.

Huh? - Let me get this straight - soldiers believe they're doing the right
thing, therefore you stand up for them. But (as you say) this also applies
to the Iraqi forces? How could you possibly 'stand up for' the Iraqi
soldiers while also standing up for the USA soldiers as they try to kill
each other?

I don't really care if people believe they're doing the right thing, they're
still responsible for consequences of their actions. I'm sure Bin Laden
believes he's doing the right thing - should we stand up for him?

 

[mscir]

Karl Core wrote:
torrents:
http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2842/The_Power_Of_Nightmares_pt1-avi.torrent
http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2903/Power of Nightmares 2-avi.torrent
http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2946/The Power of Nightmares 3 of 3 VCD-mpg.torrent

Can you recommend a torrent viewer for Windows?

 

[Jim Higson]

http://66.90.75.92/suprnova//torrents/2946/The Power of Nightmares 3 of 3 VCD-mpg.torrent

Can you recommend a torrent viewer for Windows?

I don't use Win, but Bittornado and Azureus are common, cross platform ones.
Remember, bittorrent just does the download, to actually view the files
you'll need a media player of some kind - WMP should be fine.

 

[Jeff Thies]

I served in the US Army Infantry during the first Gulf War.
Every single man on my father's side of my family has served in the US
Military during wartime, starting as far back (or farther) than the Civil
War.

Spare me the civil service lecture.

FWIW


DEMOCRATS
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army
journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V,
Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star and seven
campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars,
and
Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star
and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in Vietnam;
Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments. Entered draft but
received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII. Saved by Raoul
Wallenberg.

REPUBLICANS
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the last by marriage.
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man who attacked Max
Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon! Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year National Guard; got
assigned to Alabama
so he could campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed
to show up for required
medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a non-combat role making
movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple
Heart and
Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although continued in NFL for
8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army ZZZbase.

PUNDITS & PREACHERS
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a 'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at things that don't shoot
back.)

 

[Mark Parnell]

Isn't the decision not to vote a vote in itself? A vote for apathy,
perhaps? Or perhaps a vote for "whatever happens"?

Or as brucie said, they didn't vote because "it looked a bit rainy". :-/

So most, if not all, eligible voters who did not vote were apparently
complacent with whatever happened. That's their choice. But I can't see
their action as pro- or con- any candidate.

Exactly. So only a quarter of the population was actually pro-Bush. One
quarter was anti-Bush, and half couldn't care less. Scary way to elect a
national leader.

 

[Lemming]

Did you vote because of abortion or gay rights? Two extremely worthy
causes to base an election on.

Probably the best reason of all: It's a bad idea to switch horses in
the middle of the Apocalypse.

Lemming

 

[Neal]

It's a bad idea to switch horses in the middle of the Apocalypse.

If it really is the Apocalypse, does it matter?

 

[Mark Parnell]

Probably the best reason of all: It's a bad idea to switch horses in
the middle of the Apocalypse.

Even if the horse you're on was the one who caused the apocalypse?

 

[kchayka]

How could you possibly 'stand up for' the Iraqi
soldiers while also standing up for the USA soldiers as they try to kill
each other?

Are you implying all Iraqi's are insurgents? Don't be stupid. Iraqi's
are a big part of the armed forces over there, fighting alongside the
coalition.

I'm sure Bin Laden
believes he's doing the right thing - should we stand up for him?

I should have figured straw man arguments would show up here eventually.
It is alt.html, after all.