other perl groups

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by pfancy, Apr 26, 2004.

  1. pfancy

    pfancy Guest

    Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are NEW
    to perl.
     
    pfancy, Apr 26, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. pfancy

    Uri Guttman Guest

    >>>>> "p" == pfancy <> writes:

    p> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who
    p> are NEW to perl.

    why don't you ask those groups if there are any?

    kind of odd to ask this group for help while you insult them.

    and there are plenty of resources to help you learn perl. hmm, perl
    comes with plenty of docs and many of them are actually tutorials. there
    are at least 2 or more books published about perl. maybe that number is
    a trifle low.

    what about all those great free scripts you can steal^Wborrow^Wlearn
    from? millions of script kiddies who claim to know perl learned that
    way!

    ever heard of something called school or training?

    i just heard of this neat thing called the interweb. maybe it could help
    you?

    is that helpful enough?

    uri

    --
    Uri Guttman ------ -------- http://www.stemsystems.com
    --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and Coding-
    Search or Offer Perl Jobs ---------------------------- http://jobs.perl.org
     
    Uri Guttman, Apr 26, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. pfancy <> wrote:

    > Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are NEW
    > to perl.



    We do that here in this very newsgroup.

    What made you think that we don't?


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
     
    Tad McClellan, Apr 26, 2004
    #3
  4. >>>>> "pfancy" == pfancy <> writes:

    pfancy> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out
    pfancy> people who are NEW to perl.

    This one will. Of course, the help you get will most likely be the
    help you *need* rather than the help you *want*. No group is going to
    be as helpful to a beginner as sitting down for six to eight weeks and
    working your way through a good book. No group is going to be as
    helpful to a beginner as sitting down for an hour or two a week with a
    good teacher. And no group *at all* is going to help you with "write
    a program that does this for me, for free."

    If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.

    * Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
    question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
    _Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
    four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
    that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
    a pointer to the appropriate FM to read. This happens because if
    there's already a good explanation of the problem and its solution
    somewhere, then it's better to point the querent at that than to
    answer it all over again, which takes substantially more time and
    effort -- and the help you're getting here is FREE, donated by
    VOLUNTEERS.

    * Read at least the questions in the Perl FAQ. If your question or
    something very similar is there, read the answer. If there's an
    answer there and you ask the question here, all that will happen
    here is that you'll be told to RTFF, possibly with a pointer to the
    appropriate entry to read. This happens for much the same reason:
    the FAQ entries are there because many people asked the same
    question, and so instead of investing their effort in writing a
    hundred different responses, the FAQ authors and maintainers
    invested their effort into writing one very good response and
    checking it extensively for accuracy.

    * If you find the answer somewhere else and don't understand it, by
    all means say so, and try to ask specifically about what you don't
    understand. This lets people know that (a) you're willing to invest
    your own effort and do research on your own, which means you're not
    one of the "write my program for me for free!" sorts of posters; and
    (b) you'll get responses that aren't just 'RTFM!' because it's clear
    that you already have and are asking about something you don't
    understand.

    * If you've asked a question before and gotten advice, make sure you
    are following that advice when you ask your next question. You can
    see this trend with Robin: when he first started asking his
    questions, people were horrified at the bugs in his code, and
    offered advice. Now, several weeks later, he's posting code with
    the same bad habits and the same bugs, and the reaction has changed
    from horrified but helpful to "shut up and go away, troll who is
    unwilling to learn."

    * Remember that the people here are volunteers. Many of us are quite
    willing to tutor people in Perl, just not for free and not over
    Usenet. If you need extensive help and prefer to be walked through
    things by a tutor instead of teaching yourself based on a good book,
    then you're not going to be very satisfied with the experience
    here. Find a local Perl teacher, and pay him or her $30 an hour to
    teach you; or take a programming class at your local community
    college. Everyone will be happier that way.

    Charlton


    --
    cwilbur at chromatico dot net
    cwilbur at mac dot com
     
    Charlton Wilbur, Apr 26, 2004
    #4
  5. Also sprach Charlton Wilbur:

    > If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.
    >
    > * Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
    > question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
    > _Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
    > four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
    > that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
    > a pointer to the appropriate FM to read.


    What you list are four books. None of them is a manual and hence RTFM
    can't apply to any of them.

    People need to have a preliminary scan through the perldocs and the
    FAQs. That's all there is to do before posting.

    Tassilo
    --
    $_=q#",}])!JAPH!qq(tsuJ[{@"tnirp}3..0}_$;//::niam/s~=)]3[))_$-3(rellac(=_$({
    pam{rekcahbus})(rekcah{lrePbus})(lreP{rehtonabus})!JAPH!qq(rehtona{tsuJbus#;
    $_=reverse,s+(?<=sub).+q#q!'"qq.\t$&."'!#+sexisexiixesixeseg;y~\n~~dddd;eval
     
    Tassilo v. Parseval, Apr 26, 2004
    #5
  6. Tassilo v. Parseval wrote:
    > People need to have a preliminary scan through the perldocs and the
    > FAQs. That's all there is to do before posting.


    I agree. But don't forget that quite a few posters seem to not have a
    clue of the language. Asking them to "scan through the perldocs and
    the FAQs" is not very meaningful.

    What I'm trying to say is that in order to 'qualify' for asking for
    help with a specific Perl programming issue, people should first have
    gained a minimum level of Perl knowledge. Not sure what that would be
    - maybe perlintro?

    So yes, people should have RTFM first. But to be able to do so, they
    need to know *something*. Accordingly, knowing *something* should also
    be a requirement.

    --
    Gunnar Hjalmarsson
    Email: http://www.gunnar.cc/cgi-bin/contact.pl
     
    Gunnar Hjalmarsson, Apr 26, 2004
    #6
  7. pfancy

    Guest

    "pfancy" <> wrote:
    > Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are
    > NEW to perl.


    I was new to perl not that long ago, and I found
    this group extremely helpful.

    Xho

    --
    -------------------- http://NewsReader.Com/ --------------------
    Usenet Newsgroup Service $9.95/Month 30GB
     
    , Apr 26, 2004
    #7
  8. On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 21:30:54 -0500, pfancy wrote:

    > Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are NEW
    > to perl.


    Post a question here and you'll get a response :) We do Perl here :)

    If you want something to get you started, read the documentation that
    comes with Perl. perldoc is the utility to read Perl documentation. For
    your starting place, type

    perldoc perl

    and read :) This *should* spark some further reading.

    And, you could just read some of the posts here in this newsgroup to see
    if what you needed answered has been asked and answered before :)

    HTH

    --
    Jim

    Copyright notice: all code written by the author in this post is
    released under the GPL. http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt
    for more information.

    a fortune quote ...
    Never call a man a fool. Borrow from him.
     
    James Willmore, Apr 26, 2004
    #8
  9. pfancy

    pfancy Guest

    "Uri Guttman" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >>>>> "p" == pfancy <> writes:

    >
    > p> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who
    > p> are NEW to perl.
    >
    > why don't you ask those groups if there are any?
    >
    > kind of odd to ask this group for help while you insult them.
    >
    > and there are plenty of resources to help you learn perl. hmm, perl
    > comes with plenty of docs and many of them are actually tutorials. there
    > are at least 2 or more books published about perl. maybe that number is
    > a trifle low.
    >
    > what about all those great free scripts you can steal^Wborrow^Wlearn
    > from? millions of script kiddies who claim to know perl learned that
    > way!
    >
    > ever heard of something called school or training?
    >
    > i just heard of this neat thing called the interweb. maybe it could help
    > you?
    >
    > is that helpful enough?
    >
    > uri
    >
    > --
    > Uri Guttman ------ --------

    http://www.stemsystems.com
    > --Perl Consulting, Stem Development, Systems Architecture, Design and

    Coding-
    > Search or Offer Perl Jobs ----------------------------

    http://jobs.perl.org

    Forgive me for insulting but some of you in this group insulted me. (it was
    one of the perl groups.) I asked for help and I got insulted. So I don't
    know what more to say. I am absolutely new beginner of perl and I need help
    if anyone is willing to help me out if not. OH well.
     
    pfancy, Apr 26, 2004
    #9
  10. pfancy

    pfancy Guest

    "Charlton Wilbur" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >>>>> "pfancy" == pfancy <> writes:

    >
    > pfancy> Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out
    > pfancy> people who are NEW to perl.
    >
    > This one will. Of course, the help you get will most likely be the
    > help you *need* rather than the help you *want*. No group is going to
    > be as helpful to a beginner as sitting down for six to eight weeks and
    > working your way through a good book. No group is going to be as
    > helpful to a beginner as sitting down for an hour or two a week with a
    > good teacher. And no group *at all* is going to help you with "write
    > a program that does this for me, for free."
    >
    > If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.
    >
    > * Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
    > question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
    > _Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
    > four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
    > that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
    > a pointer to the appropriate FM to read. This happens because if
    > there's already a good explanation of the problem and its solution
    > somewhere, then it's better to point the querent at that than to
    > answer it all over again, which takes substantially more time and
    > effort -- and the help you're getting here is FREE, donated by
    > VOLUNTEERS.
    >
    > * Read at least the questions in the Perl FAQ. If your question or
    > something very similar is there, read the answer. If there's an
    > answer there and you ask the question here, all that will happen
    > here is that you'll be told to RTFF, possibly with a pointer to the
    > appropriate entry to read. This happens for much the same reason:
    > the FAQ entries are there because many people asked the same
    > question, and so instead of investing their effort in writing a
    > hundred different responses, the FAQ authors and maintainers
    > invested their effort into writing one very good response and
    > checking it extensively for accuracy.
    >
    > * If you find the answer somewhere else and don't understand it, by
    > all means say so, and try to ask specifically about what you don't
    > understand. This lets people know that (a) you're willing to invest
    > your own effort and do research on your own, which means you're not
    > one of the "write my program for me for free!" sorts of posters; and
    > (b) you'll get responses that aren't just 'RTFM!' because it's clear
    > that you already have and are asking about something you don't
    > understand.
    >
    > * If you've asked a question before and gotten advice, make sure you
    > are following that advice when you ask your next question. You can
    > see this trend with Robin: when he first started asking his
    > questions, people were horrified at the bugs in his code, and
    > offered advice. Now, several weeks later, he's posting code with
    > the same bad habits and the same bugs, and the reaction has changed
    > from horrified but helpful to "shut up and go away, troll who is
    > unwilling to learn."
    >
    > * Remember that the people here are volunteers. Many of us are quite
    > willing to tutor people in Perl, just not for free and not over
    > Usenet. If you need extensive help and prefer to be walked through
    > things by a tutor instead of teaching yourself based on a good book,
    > then you're not going to be very satisfied with the experience
    > here. Find a local Perl teacher, and pay him or her $30 an hour to
    > teach you; or take a programming class at your local community
    > college. Everyone will be happier that way.
    >
    > Charlton

    Believe it or not. The first thing I did was read books look for beginning
    perl online and I did not find what is recommended to be download and what
    to use to run perl. So I ask for it here. Maybe I just get upset when I
    see people asking for help and they get pushed around. I know they are some
    people who ask for help before research and they are some that do research
    first and get the cold shoulder for asking for help. Some of us are slow
    learners. but that doesn't mean we are dumb. because some of us are very
    bright once it clicks in our brains. Just thought I would express myself.

    You know I am looking into taking a course.
     
    pfancy, Apr 26, 2004
    #10
  11. pfancy

    pfancy Guest

    "Tassilo v. Parseval" <> wrote in message
    news:c6iu33$ceq7c$-berlin.de...
    > Also sprach Charlton Wilbur:
    >
    > > If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.
    > >
    > > * Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
    > > question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
    > > _Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
    > > four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
    > > that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
    > > a pointer to the appropriate FM to read.

    >
    > What you list are four books. None of them is a manual and hence RTFM
    > can't apply to any of them.
    >
    > People need to have a preliminary scan through the perldocs and the
    > FAQs. That's all there is to do before posting.
    >
    > Tassilo



    I read through that and I did not understand. It doesn't tell me how to or
    where to find the program to write perl in. that what gets me. I downloaded
    active perl active perl dev. etc. but I am still lost.
     
    pfancy, Apr 26, 2004
    #11
  12. >>>>> "pfancy" == pfancy <> writes:

    pfancy> Forgive me for insulting but some of you in this group
    pfancy> insulted me. (it was one of the perl groups.) I asked for
    pfancy> help and I got insulted.

    I know of nobody here that intentionally insults *people* (except Uri;
    he gets close sometimes :). What precisely are you calling an insult?
    Give us a URL from "groups.google.com" for best verification.

    print "Just another Perl hacker,";

    --
    Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
    <> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
    Perl/Unix/security consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
    See PerlTraining.Stonehenge.com for onsite and open-enrollment Perl training!
     
    Randal L. Schwartz, Apr 26, 2004
    #12
  13. pfancy

    Paul Lalli Guest

    On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, pfancy wrote:

    > "Tassilo v. Parseval" <> wrote in message
    > news:c6iu33$ceq7c$-berlin.de...
    > > Also sprach Charlton Wilbur:
    > >
    > > > If you want this group to be helpful, here's what you do.
    > > >
    > > > * Spend at least twenty minutes looking for the answer to your
    > > > question in _Learning Perl_, _Elements of Programming with Perl_,
    > > > _Programming Perl_, and _The Perl Cookbook_ -- or preferably all
    > > > four. If there's an answer there and you ask the question here, all
    > > > that will happen here is that you'll be told to RTFM, possibly with
    > > > a pointer to the appropriate FM to read.

    > >
    > > What you list are four books. None of them is a manual and hence RTFM
    > > can't apply to any of them.
    > >
    > > People need to have a preliminary scan through the perldocs and the
    > > FAQs. That's all there is to do before posting.
    > >
    > > Tassilo

    >
    >
    > I read through that and I did not understand. It doesn't tell me how to or
    > where to find the program to write perl in. that what gets me. I downloaded
    > active perl active perl dev. etc. but I am still lost.
    >


    "the program to write perl in". This implies you don't know how to write
    *any* computer language. Is that correct? If so, that is likely the
    cause of your inability to get the exact help you're looking for. This
    discussion is about the Perl language specifically. It seems what you
    need is a tutorial on "how to write computer programs".

    The answer to this question, btw, is that you can use *any* text editor to
    write programs. Many people will reccommend one above all others (such as
    emacs, vi, or textpad). Others will tell you to just write in anything
    that makes you comfortable, perhaps even Notepad. One thing we will all
    tell you is to NEVER use a word processor like MS Word, unless you're
    fully prepared to constantly undo all its 'helpful' corrections and always
    remember to save your document in plain text.

    Paul Lalli

    P.S. I did a groups.google search to find what thread you were referring
    to - your email exists only in this thread. Did you use a different
    address when you claim to have been 'insulted'? Can you point us to the
    insulting message(s)?
     
    Paul Lalli, Apr 26, 2004
    #13
  14. pfancy

    Uri Guttman Guest

    >>>>> "RLS" == Randal L Schwartz <> writes:

    >>>>> "pfancy" == pfancy <> writes:

    pfancy> Forgive me for insulting but some of you in this group
    pfancy> insulted me. (it was one of the perl groups.) I asked for
    pfancy> help and I got insulted.

    RLS> I know of nobody here that intentionally insults *people* (except
    RLS> Uri; he gets close sometimes :). What precisely are you calling
    RLS> an insult? Give us a URL from "groups.google.com" for best
    RLS> verification.

    randal, you are a frumious bandersnatch!

    uri
     
    Uri Guttman, Apr 26, 2004
    #14
  15. pfancy

    Robin Guest

    > Forgive me for insulting but some of you in this group insulted me. (it
    was
    > one of the perl groups.) I asked for help and I got insulted. So I don't
    > know what more to say. I am absolutely new beginner of perl and I need

    help
    > if anyone is willing to help me out if not. OH well.



    I wouldn't really call it an insult, at least the "insults" that I've gotten
    aren't really insults per say, but hardcore examples of critism, though I
    wish I'd get a little bit more friendly responses. Post your code, even if
    it's really simple so the group can see.
    Overall, this is the best perl group I've discovered, at least in my
    opinion.

    --
    Regards,
    -Robin
    --
    [ webmaster @ infusedlight.net ]
    www.infusedlight.net
     
    Robin, Apr 26, 2004
    #15
  16. pfancy wrote:
    > "Tassilo v. Parseval" <> wrote in

    [...]
    >> People need to have a preliminary scan through the perldocs and the
    >> FAQs. That's all there is to do before posting.

    >
    > I read through that and I did not understand. It doesn't tell me how
    > to or where to find the program to write perl in.


    What? You can write your Perl program in any editor you like. Use vi or
    emacs or even Notepad or ed if you really don't have anything better.
    The religious war about "what is the best editor to write Perl programs"
    resurfaces here about every 2 to 3 months.

    Besides, there is even an FAQ entry: "perldoc -q editor" yields

    Is there an IDE or Windows Perl Editor?

    Perl programs are just plain text, so any editor will do.

    If you're on Unix, you already have an IDE--Unix itself. The
    UNIX philosophy is the philosophy of several small tools that
    each do one thing and do it well. It's like a carpenter's
    toolbox.

    If you want a Windows IDE, check the following:

    CodeMagicCD
    http://www.codemagiccd.com/

    Komodo
    ActiveState's cross-platform, multi-language IDE has Perl
    support, including a regular expression debugger and remote
    debugging
    (http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/Komodo/index.html).
    (Visual Perl, a Visual Studio.NET plug-in is currently
    (early 2001) in beta
    (http://www.ActiveState.com/Products/VisualPerl/index.html))
     
    Jürgen Exner, Apr 27, 2004
    #16
  17. pfancy

    Jeff Boes Guest

    pfancy wrote:
    > Are the any other perl groups who will actually help out people who are NEW
    > to perl.
    >
    >


    The following resources should be investigated when looking for starting
    points in learning or improving your Perl skills:

    http://learn.perl.org/

    http://perlmonks.org/

    http://perl.com/pub/q/resources

    As with many such free training resources, you get only modestly more
    than you pay for, and no more than what you put in. Your *best* approach
    for learning Perl is to find a college-level course in programming Perl
    (if you already know a computer language). If you know nearly nothing
    about programming (hint: how many of the following terms could you
    define without recourse to a book? function, compiler, variable, control
    structure, debug, loop. If your answer wasn't "all of them", then maybe
    you need to learn how to program *first*), then you should investigate a
    100-level course in programming using nearly *any* language, and only
    *then* come back to Perl. (If you can find a college-level class in
    learning to program that uses Perl, congratuate yourself on extreme good
    fortune.)

    Do not take the advice in this message as an insult to you. I do not
    know your programming background, so I'm assuming the worst. Also,
    messages like this get read by dozens of other seekers of Perl help, so
    I'm writing for them, too.

    As to the other respondents to this thread that jumped on the original
    poster for the perceived insult to "the group", *rather* than offering
    help, shame on you.

    --
    (Posted from an account used as a SPAM dump. If you really want to get
    in touch with me, dump the 'jboes' and substitute 'mur'.)
    ________
    Jeffery Boes <><
     
    Jeff Boes, Apr 27, 2004
    #17
  18. pfancy

    Matt Garrish Guest

    "Paul Lalli" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, pfancy wrote:
    >
    > P.S. I did a groups.google search to find what thread you were referring
    > to - your email exists only in this thread. Did you use a different
    > address when you claim to have been 'insulted'? Can you point us to the
    > insulting message(s)?
    >


    I remember he got a little flame in alt.perl a while back. Made some
    misguided claims about Linux being a bigger resource hog than XP. He needs a
    much thicker skin if that's what's eating at him:

    http://tinyurl.com/2gc7w

    Matt
     
    Matt Garrish, Apr 28, 2004
    #18
  19. pfancy

    pfancy Guest


    > >
    > > I read through that and I did not understand. It doesn't tell me how to

    or
    > > where to find the program to write perl in. that what gets me. I

    downloaded
    > > active perl active perl dev. etc. but I am still lost.
    > >

    >
    > "the program to write perl in". This implies you don't know how to write
    > *any* computer language. Is that correct? If so, that is likely the
    > cause of your inability to get the exact help you're looking for. This
    > discussion is about the Perl language specifically. It seems what you
    > need is a tutorial on "how to write computer programs".
    >
    > The answer to this question, btw, is that you can use *any* text editor to
    > write programs. Many people will reccommend one above all others (such as
    > emacs, vi, or textpad). Others will tell you to just write in anything
    > that makes you comfortable, perhaps even Notepad. One thing we will all
    > tell you is to NEVER use a word processor like MS Word, unless you're
    > fully prepared to constantly undo all its 'helpful' corrections and always
    > remember to save your document in plain text.
    >
    > Paul Lalli
    >
    > P.S. I did a groups.google search to find what thread you were referring
    > to - your email exists only in this thread. Did you use a different
    > address when you claim to have been 'insulted'? Can you point us to the
    > insulting message(s)?


    I can't remember which group it was it has been a while. I took a break.
     
    pfancy, Apr 28, 2004
    #19
  20. pfancy

    pfancy Guest

    0
    "Abigail" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > pfancy () wrote on MMMDCCCXCI September MCMXCIII in
    > <URL:news:>:
    > ^^
    > ^^ Believe it or not. The first thing I did was read books look for

    beginning
    > ^^ perl online and I did not find what is recommended to be download and

    what
    > ^^ to use to run perl.
    >
    > Ok, I want to know. Which books did you read? Please state title,
    > author and publisher.
    >
    >
    > Abigail


    Programming Perl O' Reilly
    Does that help out some?
     
    pfancy, Apr 28, 2004
    #20
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    Any other good ASP.NET groups?

    Vieth, Dec 7, 2004, in forum: ASP .Net
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    340
    Vieth
    Dec 7, 2004
  4. anonymous
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    4,657
    Francisco Padron
    May 8, 2005
  5. Replies:
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    Views:
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