Paragraph tags different in Mozilla

[tshad]

I have a table where I have use a paragraph tag to indent my lines (actually
Front Page added it). But it causes all kinds of problems in Mozilla.

If you look at my samples you can see the difference.

If you look at http://www.payrollworkshop.com/samples/paragraphtest1.htm you
will see a box that is larger than the text if you look at it in Mozilla.
In IE, the box is the same height (approx.) as the text. The code is:

<td valign="bottom" bgcolor="#C0C0C0">
<p style="margin-left: 15">Profiles on File:</p></td>
<td valign="bottom" bgcolor="#C0C0C0" colspan="5">&nbsp; </td>

I am only setting the margin on the left here, so why is Mozilla using it
all around the box?

If I take the <p> code out - it works fine in both IE and Mozilla
(http://www.payrollworkshop.com/samples/paragraphtest2.htm).

In either case, it doesn't seem to work. It doesn't seem to indent the
text, anyway. I also tried it in the <td> field with no effect.

Thanks,

Tom

 

[Adrienne]

I have a table where I have use a paragraph tag to indent my lines
(actually Front Page added it). But it causes all kinds of problems in
Mozilla.

If you look at my samples you can see the difference.

If you look at
http://www.payrollworkshop.com/samples/paragraphtest1.htm you will see
a box that is larger than the text if you look at it in Mozilla. In IE,
the box is the same height (approx.) as the text. The code is:

<td valign="bottom" bgcolor="#C0C0C0"> <p style="margin-left:
15">Profiles on File:</p></td> <td valign="bottom" bgcolor="#C0C0C0"
colspan="5">&nbsp; </td>

I am only setting the margin on the left here, so why is Mozilla using
it all around the box?

If I take the <p> code out - it works fine in both IE and Mozilla
(http://www.payrollworkshop.com/samples/paragraphtest2.htm).

In either case, it doesn't seem to work. It doesn't seem to indent the
text, anyway. I also tried it in the <td> field with no effect.

Thanks,

Tom

1. Get rid of FrontPage.
2. Stop abusing tables.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

1. Get rid of FrontPage.
2. Stop abusing tables.

3. Add some units to the incorrect <p style="margin-left: 15">

15 cars? Dogs? Ah ... 15 cheeseburgers!

 

[tshad]

1. Get rid of FrontPage.

I am not using FP, but my boss had been using it and is now mainly using DW
to build pages.

2. Stop abusing tables.

How did I abuse tables in my example?

Tom

 

[tshad]

3. Add some units to the incorrect <p style="margin-left: 15">

Again - Front Page added this.

I agree. I assume this should be <p style="margin-left: 15px">

Tom

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Again - Front Page added this.

I agree. I assume this should be <p style="margin-left: 15px">

...or 2em ...

http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts

Your 8pt font is also unreadable. We discuss why not to use Verdana,
and not to use px or pt for font every day here. Surely, you've read a
few of those threads?

 

[Mark Parnell]

How did I abuse tables in my example?

Sure doesn't look like tabular data to me.

 

[Mark Parnell]

Previously in alt.html, "Beauregard T. Shagnasty"

3. Add some units to the incorrect <p style="margin-left: 15">

15 cars? Dogs? Ah ... 15 cheeseburgers!

Hobnobs. It's been a while since anyone brought any in here.

 

[n|ck]

Your 8pt font is also unreadable. We discuss why not to use Verdana,

I'm not sure I can see the rational behind shunning Verdana as a font for the
web. I would've thought that the main problem was using Verdana when not using
relative font sizes? Verdana was made for the screen... so why can't we use it?

Basically, I don't see a problem with using it as long as it's size is set using
a % (due to IE's "bug").

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

I'm not sure I can see the rational behind shunning Verdana as a
font for the web. I would've thought that the main problem was
using Verdana when not using relative font sizes? Verdana was made
for the screen... so why can't we use it?
http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/verdana.html

Basically, I don't see a problem with using it as long as it's size
is set using a % (due to IE's "bug").

Yes, as long as you use 100 of them. 100%.

 

[tshad]

..or 2em ...

http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts

Your 8pt font is also unreadable. We discuss why not to use Verdana, and
not to use px or pt for font every day here. Surely, you've read a few of
those threads?

Again, this is what FP puts out there.

I actually do use fixed sized fonts, but they are all in my style sheets
that I can change later. I just found that relative sizes caused me no end
of problems when dealing with data input screens and getting things to line
up.

I actually use 10px, 12px and 14px:

a.headerlink:active{
font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
font-size: 10px;
color: #000000;
text-decoration: underline;
font-weight:bold;
}
..UserHeader {
color: #FFFFFF;
font-size: 14px;
font-weight: bold;
font-family:Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;
}

I also have them set at the same size as the graphic images I am using that
have the text in them to make them consistant. How do you use a relative
size font in a graphic image?

Using standard out of the box browsers (IE, netscape, firefox) all look
fine. I have my screen at 1024.

We have had multiple people look at some of the pages without telling them
how to set their browsers and they use different size screen resolutions and
they don't seem to have a problem with it.

I did figure out my problem, however.

My example was missing the <p> tag, so it wasn't showing the problem
correctly. Now it does.

It was the DOCTYPE that was causing the problem.

In http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Samples/ParagraphTest1.htm you can see
this at the dop

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

As soon as I took the 2nd line out it works fine in all browsers. As you
can see in http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Samples/ParagraphTest1.htm

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

I found that not only did it have a large box around it, but the first
example doesn't indent the text and the 2nd one does.

Tom

 

[Toby Inkster]

I'm not sure I can see the rational behind shunning Verdana as a font
for the web. I would've thought that the main problem was using Verdana
when not using relative font sizes? Verdana was made for the screen...
so why can't we use it?

http://tobyinkster.co.uk/web-fonts#verdana

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Again, this is what FP puts out there.

Sounds like a good reason to dump it.

I actually do use fixed sized fonts, but they are all in my style
sheets that I can change later. I just found that relative sizes
caused me no end of problems when dealing with data input screens
and getting things to line up.

I actually use 10px, 12px and 14px:

I always use 100% and have no problems at all. You must be doing
something else wrong. Or, rather of course, FrontPage is doing
something else wrong.

Have we mentioned that IE users will not be able to resize your fonts
if they have vision problems?

I also have them set at the same size as the graphic images I am
using that have the text in them to make them consistant. How do
you use a relative size font in a graphic image?

A graphic image of text? Why not just use text? Unless you're showing
mathematical formulae, or need a particular emphasized header, there
is little reason to use a graphic of text.

Using standard out of the box browsers (IE, netscape, firefox) all
look fine. I have my screen at 1024.

Screen size is unimportant. Browser window size is. My 1024 monitor
usually has a browser window around 750-850px wide.

We have had multiple people look at some of the pages without
telling them how to set their browsers and they use different size
screen resolutions and they don't seem to have a problem with it.

Again, screen resolution is not important.

I did figure out my problem, however.

My example was missing the <p> tag, so it wasn't showing the
problem correctly. Now it does.

It was the DOCTYPE that was causing the problem.

In http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Samples/ParagraphTest1.htm you
can see this at the dop

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

As soon as I took the 2nd line out it works fine in all browsers.
As you can see in
http://www.payrollworkshop.com/Samples/ParagraphTest1.htm

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">

The page still has the complete doctype. In fact, I think I recall
that an incomplete doctype will still toss browsers into quirks mode.

I found that not only did it have a large box around it, but the
first example doesn't indent the text and the 2nd one does.

...and there are still no units on your paragraph margin.
Still 15 cheeseburgers.

 

[Els]

Have we mentioned that IE users will not be able to resize your fonts
if they have vision problems?

Only if they have vision problems? All the other users can resize px
fonts? (SCNR ;-) )

The page still has the complete doctype. In fact, I think I recall
that an incomplete doctype will still toss browsers into quirks mode.

Correct. It's the DTD (second half of doctype) that triggers standards
mode.

..and there are still no units on your paragraph margin.
Still 15 cheeseburgers.

Hobnobs.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Only if they have vision problems? All the other users can resize
px fonts? (SCNR ;-) )

Badly phrased, eh? "Have we mentioned that if IE users have vision
problems and wish to resize so they can read it, won't be able to do

Correct. It's the DTD (second half of doctype) that triggers
standards mode.


Hobnobs.

Cheeseburgers.

 

[Els]

Cheeseburgers.

Sorry, forgot you're American.
;P

 

[Toby Inkster]

Sorry, forgot you're American.

They dip *cheeseburgers* in *coffee* over there?

 

[Adrienne]

I am not using FP, but my boss had been using it and is now mainly
using DW to build pages.

You will find that if you are going to be doing server side stuff that a
plain text editor is a lot easier to use.

How did I abuse tables in my example?

<quote> I have a table where I use a paragraph...</quote>

Tables are for tabular data, not for positioning of elements. There are
plenty of elements that are sematically correct that can be styled a lot
easier than your abuse of tables.

After all, you probably wouldn't use Excel to write a business letter. Do
not use tables for non-tabular data. Use the right tool for the job - use
Strict HTML and CSS. Separate content from presentation.

 

[Joel Shepherd]

They dip *cheeseburgers* in *coffee* over there?

Yeah, and we put ketchup on our doughnuts. It's a weird country, if you
haven't already glommed onto that fact. ;-)

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Yeah, and we put ketchup on our doughnuts. It's a weird country, if
you haven't already glommed onto that fact. ;-)

I use mustard on my doughnuts, and dip my cheeseburgers in *Pepsi*!