pay-per-click; Where am I wrong in my numbers?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by indyfladon@yahoo.com, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. Guest

    Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?

    If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
    earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
    this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.

    If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
    i would need 555.555 clicks per day.

    If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
    it would need 27,777 visitors per day.


    If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
    revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.

    If you think I'm asking the wrong question, please post it to a new
    topic.

    TIA
    John
     
    , Mar 6, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Richard Guest

    On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800 wrote:

    >
    > Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
    >
    > If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
    > earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
    > this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.


    Pay per click sucks.
    You could have a script that would automatically create clicks which would
    count the same.
    Then how are you gonna verify their word without logs as proof?
    Best thing is, stay away from it.
     
    Richard, Mar 7, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Guest

    > Pay per click sucks.

    Do you think google adsense sucks. And do you think they are likely to
    fail to pay on legitamate clicks?
     
    , Mar 7, 2005
    #3
  4. Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800 wrote:
    >
    > >
    > > Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
    > >
    > > If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that

    strictly
    > > earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
    > > this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.

    >
    > You could have a script that would automatically create clicks which

    would
    > count the same.


    Not as far as the script that's counting the clicks is concerned. How
    do you think companies like DoubleClick make their money, you RtS?

    > Then how are you gonna verify their word without logs as proof?


    Duh!


    > Best thing is, stay away from it.


    Best this is to ignore *anything* you say or treat it as stoopid.

    --
    Hywel
     
    , Mar 7, 2005
    #4
  5. Carol W Guest

    On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800, wrote:

    >
    >Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
    >
    >If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
    >earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
    >this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.
    >
    >If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
    >i would need 555.555 clicks per day.
    >
    >If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
    >it would need 27,777 visitors per day.
    >
    >
    >If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
    >revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.


    I don't feel it is a bad idea but - depending on what content the site
    is offering - PPC may be just one option they can consider.
    Particularly if they get 27,777 visitors per day ;)

    For example; Adsense works for some content sites but not all. Depends
    on the content offered. A travel site, offering reviews and
    commentaries about various places, may do well with what is triggered
    by Adsense to share on those pages. A site, about backpacking through
    Indiana or "where to visit while in Indiana", however may not do as
    well with Adsense even though it could be viewed being a travel site
    of some form.

    This isn't touching upon how Adsense bases what ads are shown by the
    on-page text and that some Adwords keywords have a higher scale than
    others - compare pregnancy to parenting, pregnancy seems to be a bit
    more 'lucrative' whereas parenting theme ads seem to be like those
    [lame] scripted eBay affiliate ads in terms of very low payout.

    Some people have coupled in Amazon with Adsense. I haven't explored
    many of the products one can offer through Amazon - mainly limit
    myself to some books and music that are selected to blend in and match
    the contents of the site. Although Amazon is primarily known as to
    where one can go to order books online - if you read the Amazon
    Affiliate boards it reads as though many of the affiliates make their
    revenue from offering the other products.

    Then - lastly - depends on how you handle the advertising shared on
    your pages and the type of audience that content is attracting. Some
    people claim to do well with their pages looking like walking
    billboards [ads interjected throughout the page's contents] while
    others generate next to nothing due to their pages looking like
    walking billboards.

    So your numbers may be right, in terms of how to get $100 per day at
    ..18 cents per click ... but the mathematical formula isn't taking into
    consideration the various variables that can have a site, with 27,777
    visitors per day, only getting 18 cents per day [due to lower paying
    ads shared or just attracting an audience that isn't
    ad-click-happy/not seeing the ads to begin with] versus $100.

    Bearing in mind that I am not out to make $100 per day in an affiliate
    program - what I do on my site is not share any advertising on the
    main page if I can get away without sharing any [one site has zero
    adverts on the main page, the other has 2 amazon affiliate product
    links]. On the inner pages I share Adsense with around 2 to 4 Amazon
    affiliate product links. With both sites I went with the Adsense 2-ad
    option versus the ones sharing 3 or more ads; I tried the larger ones
    and then the smaller ones, and the click through rate remained
    unchanged so I just went with the smaller display (which I felt looked
    nicer on my pages anyway).

    So the advertising shared would be, when counting in the rest of the
    page's contents, about 15% out of the entire contents of that page.
    This way, on my pages, if someone has the particular affiliate program
    blocked on their side [so not seen] then it doesn't interfere with the
    other 85% of the content - which is the actual 'calling card' and
    'reason for existence' for the site. But then again my sites were not
    created for the primary purpose of sharing affiliate ads.

    The above is about the most I can offer for you to consider on your
    side.

    Carol
     
    Carol W, Mar 7, 2005
    #5
  6. Carol W Guest

    On 6 Mar 2005 17:10:13 -0800, wrote:

    >> Pay per click sucks.

    >
    >Do you think google adsense sucks. And do you think they are likely to
    >fail to pay on legitamate clicks?


    Actually Adsense has the reputation for booting people out for
    questionable clicks and/or self-clicks. 'Click circle' thoughts is not
    something you want to consider with Adsense if you really want to
    participate in the program. Have you read through the Adsense forum on
    WebMasterWorld's site?

    Carol .
     
    Carol W, Mar 7, 2005
    #6
  7. NewsGuy Guest

    First of all thanks Carol for taking the time to answer my post.

    I was about to give up on newsgroups. (Not this group, just groups in
    general) Thanks for sharing a bit of your knowledge.

    ----------------------------

    The idea I'm getting at (in case anyone is curious) is *how *to *value *a
    *site for ($) purchase based on the number of hits a site gets. I have read
    (and found it to be true in my own very limited experience) that certain
    adwords and affiliate programs pay much more than others, so the content of
    the site as you said plays a factor. I will make up a hypothetical $0.18
    from a good 'click broker' with a 2% click thru rate. I am looking at this
    strictly from a buisness perspective. My buisness phylosiphy has always
    been that you don't get something for nothing (at least not for very long)
    and you have to provide a good service ie: people have to want to visit, you
    give them good content, and they reward you by coming back. It is the same
    in any buisness, but sufice to say I want to build a legitimate buisness
    (win/win/win situations) for web surfers, myself and affiliates. I have no
    intention of taking part in click scripts, scams, or whatever. nuff said.

    A site with the above mentioned click thru rate and the above mentioned
    avearge pay per click would mark up before expenses aprox. $36,500 asuming
    all continued to go well, the clicks are authentic, etc.

    I should have used an example of a site with less clicks as I supose this is
    highly unusual to find a site that generates this much authentic traffic.
    But here is jist of what I am getting at (I hope we don't digress to much
    into authenticating hits, as I feel fairly confident this is next to
    impossible):

    A site I'm interested in purchasing I *estimate* has, say 500 hits per day?

    The formula I might use to calculate its value looks something like this:
    500 hits * .02 click thru rate *$0.18 average click pay * 365 days per year
    = $657 per year - 150 per year in expenses = $507 in profit.
    If the site was a content site that needed almost know updating each year
    than as an investor I would very happy to Pay $500 for the site. Some
    investors would say a buisness with little maintenance and a strong
    possibility of coninuing forward for several years would be worth 5X
    earnings. or roughly $2,500. I would not pay that much, but maybe some
    people do.

    Any idea what a 500 click a day ssight would be worth? $500? $2500? more?
    less?

    I realize I am left to guess about the true number of hits, but I think I
    can get a rough idea by googling link:www.domain.com and checking the
    *quality *of *links, and generall checking of links, search engines,
    checking key words etc. could give me a rough idea.

    I apologize if this is getting a bit off topic for alt.html.

    Best Regards,
    John


    "Carol W" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800, wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
    > >
    > >If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
    > >earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
    > >this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.
    > >
    > >If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
    > >i would need 555.555 clicks per day.
    > >
    > >If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
    > >it would need 27,777 visitors per day.
    > >
    > >
    > >If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
    > >revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.

    >
    > I don't feel it is a bad idea but - depending on what content the site
    > is offering - PPC may be just one option they can consider.
    > Particularly if they get 27,777 visitors per day ;)
    >
    > For example; Adsense works for some content sites but not all. Depends
    > on the content offered. A travel site, offering reviews and
    > commentaries about various places, may do well with what is triggered
    > by Adsense to share on those pages. A site, about backpacking through
    > Indiana or "where to visit while in Indiana", however may not do as
    > well with Adsense even though it could be viewed being a travel site
    > of some form.
    >
    > This isn't touching upon how Adsense bases what ads are shown by the
    > on-page text and that some Adwords keywords have a higher scale than
    > others - compare pregnancy to parenting, pregnancy seems to be a bit
    > more 'lucrative' whereas parenting theme ads seem to be like those
    > [lame] scripted eBay affiliate ads in terms of very low payout.
    >
    > Some people have coupled in Amazon with Adsense. I haven't explored
    > many of the products one can offer through Amazon - mainly limit
    > myself to some books and music that are selected to blend in and match
    > the contents of the site. Although Amazon is primarily known as to
    > where one can go to order books online - if you read the Amazon
    > Affiliate boards it reads as though many of the affiliates make their
    > revenue from offering the other products.
    >
    > Then - lastly - depends on how you handle the advertising shared on
    > your pages and the type of audience that content is attracting. Some
    > people claim to do well with their pages looking like walking
    > billboards [ads interjected throughout the page's contents] while
    > others generate next to nothing due to their pages looking like
    > walking billboards.
    >
    > So your numbers may be right, in terms of how to get $100 per day at
    > .18 cents per click ... but the mathematical formula isn't taking into
    > consideration the various variables that can have a site, with 27,777
    > visitors per day, only getting 18 cents per day [due to lower paying
    > ads shared or just attracting an audience that isn't
    > ad-click-happy/not seeing the ads to begin with] versus $100.
    >
    > Bearing in mind that I am not out to make $100 per day in an affiliate
    > program - what I do on my site is not share any advertising on the
    > main page if I can get away without sharing any [one site has zero
    > adverts on the main page, the other has 2 amazon affiliate product
    > links]. On the inner pages I share Adsense with around 2 to 4 Amazon
    > affiliate product links. With both sites I went with the Adsense 2-ad
    > option versus the ones sharing 3 or more ads; I tried the larger ones
    > and then the smaller ones, and the click through rate remained
    > unchanged so I just went with the smaller display (which I felt looked
    > nicer on my pages anyway).
    >
    > So the advertising shared would be, when counting in the rest of the
    > page's contents, about 15% out of the entire contents of that page.
    > This way, on my pages, if someone has the particular affiliate program
    > blocked on their side [so not seen] then it doesn't interfere with the
    > other 85% of the content - which is the actual 'calling card' and
    > 'reason for existence' for the site. But then again my sites were not
    > created for the primary purpose of sharing affiliate ads.
    >
    > The above is about the most I can offer for you to consider on your
    > side.
    >
    > Carol
     
    NewsGuy, Mar 8, 2005
    #7
  8. In article <2DaXd.11778$>,
    "NewsGuy" <> wrote:

    > First of all thanks Carol for taking the time to answer my post.
    >
    > I was about to give up on newsgroups. (Not this group, just groups in
    > general) Thanks for sharing a bit of your knowledge.
    >
    > ----------------------------
    >
    > The idea I'm getting at (in case anyone is curious) is *how *to *value *a
    > *site for ($) purchase based on the number of hits a site gets. I have read
    > (and found it to be true in my own very limited experience) that certain
    > adwords and affiliate programs pay much more than others, so the content of
    > the site as you said plays a factor. I will make up a hypothetical $0.18
    > from a good 'click broker' with a 2% click thru rate. I am looking at this
    > strictly from a buisness perspective. My buisness phylosiphy has always
    > been that you don't get something for nothing (at least not for very long)
    > and you have to provide a good service ie: people have to want to visit, you
    > give them good content, and they reward you by coming back. It is the same
    > in any buisness, but sufice to say I want to build a legitimate buisness
    > (win/win/win situations) for web surfers, myself and affiliates. I have no
    > intention of taking part in click scripts, scams, or whatever. nuff said.
    >
    > A site with the above mentioned click thru rate and the above mentioned
    > avearge pay per click would mark up before expenses aprox. $36,500 asuming
    > all continued to go well, the clicks are authentic, etc.
    >
    > I should have used an example of a site with less clicks as I supose this is
    > highly unusual to find a site that generates this much authentic traffic.
    > But here is jist of what I am getting at (I hope we don't digress to much
    > into authenticating hits, as I feel fairly confident this is next to
    > impossible):
    >
    > A site I'm interested in purchasing I *estimate* has, say 500 hits per day?
    >
    > The formula I might use to calculate its value looks something like this:
    > 500 hits * .02 click thru rate *$0.18 average click pay * 365 days per year
    > = $657 per year - 150 per year in expenses = $507 in profit.
    > If the site was a content site that needed almost know updating each year
    > than as an investor I would very happy to Pay $500 for the site. Some
    > investors would say a buisness with little maintenance and a strong
    > possibility of coninuing forward for several years would be worth 5X
    > earnings. or roughly $2,500. I would not pay that much, but maybe some
    > people do.
    >
    > Any idea what a 500 click a day ssight would be worth? $500? $2500? more?
    > less?
    >
    > I realize I am left to guess about the true number of hits, but I think I
    > can get a rough idea by googling link:www.domain.com and checking the
    > *quality *of *links, and generall checking of links, search engines,
    > checking key words etc. could give me a rough idea.
    >
    > I apologize if this is getting a bit off topic for alt.html.
    >
    > Best Regards,
    > John
    >
    >
    > "Carol W" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On 6 Mar 2005 15:31:49 -0800, wrote:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >Where am I wrong in my numbers/math?
    > > >
    > > >If I were to try and earn a living through content sites that strictly
    > > >earned revenue on a basis of pay-per-click ads,
    > > >this is what I would need to do to make $100 per day.
    > > >
    > > >If a program aveaged $0.18 per click,
    > > >i would need 555.555 clicks per day.
    > > >
    > > >If a site had a 2% click thru rate,
    > > >it would need 27,777 visitors per day.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >If you think a content only site with pay per click as the only form of
    > > >revenue is a bad idea, please post it to a new topic.

    > >
    > > I don't feel it is a bad idea but - depending on what content the site
    > > is offering - PPC may be just one option they can consider.
    > > Particularly if they get 27,777 visitors per day ;)
    > >
    > > For example; Adsense works for some content sites but not all. Depends
    > > on the content offered. A travel site, offering reviews and
    > > commentaries about various places, may do well with what is triggered
    > > by Adsense to share on those pages. A site, about backpacking through
    > > Indiana or "where to visit while in Indiana", however may not do as
    > > well with Adsense even though it could be viewed being a travel site
    > > of some form.
    > >
    > > This isn't touching upon how Adsense bases what ads are shown by the
    > > on-page text and that some Adwords keywords have a higher scale than
    > > others - compare pregnancy to parenting, pregnancy seems to be a bit
    > > more 'lucrative' whereas parenting theme ads seem to be like those
    > > [lame] scripted eBay affiliate ads in terms of very low payout.
    > >
    > > Some people have coupled in Amazon with Adsense. I haven't explored
    > > many of the products one can offer through Amazon - mainly limit
    > > myself to some books and music that are selected to blend in and match
    > > the contents of the site. Although Amazon is primarily known as to
    > > where one can go to order books online - if you read the Amazon
    > > Affiliate boards it reads as though many of the affiliates make their
    > > revenue from offering the other products.
    > >
    > > Then - lastly - depends on how you handle the advertising shared on
    > > your pages and the type of audience that content is attracting. Some
    > > people claim to do well with their pages looking like walking
    > > billboards [ads interjected throughout the page's contents] while
    > > others generate next to nothing due to their pages looking like
    > > walking billboards.
    > >
    > > So your numbers may be right, in terms of how to get $100 per day at
    > > .18 cents per click ... but the mathematical formula isn't taking into
    > > consideration the various variables that can have a site, with 27,777
    > > visitors per day, only getting 18 cents per day [due to lower paying
    > > ads shared or just attracting an audience that isn't
    > > ad-click-happy/not seeing the ads to begin with] versus $100.
    > >
    > > Bearing in mind that I am not out to make $100 per day in an affiliate
    > > program - what I do on my site is not share any advertising on the
    > > main page if I can get away without sharing any [one site has zero
    > > adverts on the main page, the other has 2 amazon affiliate product
    > > links]. On the inner pages I share Adsense with around 2 to 4 Amazon
    > > affiliate product links. With both sites I went with the Adsense 2-ad
    > > option versus the ones sharing 3 or more ads; I tried the larger ones
    > > and then the smaller ones, and the click through rate remained
    > > unchanged so I just went with the smaller display (which I felt looked
    > > nicer on my pages anyway).
    > >
    > > So the advertising shared would be, when counting in the rest of the
    > > page's contents, about 15% out of the entire contents of that page.
    > > This way, on my pages, if someone has the particular affiliate program
    > > blocked on their side [so not seen] then it doesn't interfere with the
    > > other 85% of the content - which is the actual 'calling card' and
    > > 'reason for existence' for the site. But then again my sites were not
    > > created for the primary purpose of sharing affiliate ads.
    > >
    > > The above is about the most I can offer for you to consider on your
    > > side.
    > >
    > > Carol

    >
    >


    Based on some personal experience, .02 click thru rate means the ads
    aren't properly targeted.

    If it were me, I'd be using affiliate links and not adsense.

    500 clicks a day isn't earth shattering, but even if you were able to
    sell one netscape sign-up a day, you'd earn $16 (currently) which is
    almost an order of magnitude better income.
     
    Always More Questions, Mar 8, 2005
    #8
  9. Carol W Guest

    On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 00:28:06 -0500, "NewsGuy" <>
    wrote:

    >First of all thanks Carol for taking the time to answer my post.


    Not a problem.


    [snip]
    >A site I'm interested in purchasing I *estimate* has, say 500 hits per day?
    >
    >The formula I might use to calculate its value looks something like this:
    >500 hits * .02 click thru rate *$0.18 average click pay * 365 days per year
    >= $657 per year - 150 per year in expenses = $507 in profit.
    >If the site was a content site that needed almost know updating each year
    >than as an investor I would very happy to Pay $500 for the site. Some
    >investors would say a buisness with little maintenance and a strong
    >possibility of coninuing forward for several years would be worth 5X
    >earnings. or roughly $2,500. I would not pay that much, but maybe some
    >people do.
    >
    >Any idea what a 500 click a day ssight would be worth? $500? $2500? more?
    >less?
    >


    Hard to say what a 500 click a day site might be worth. I know you are
    trying to use an average amount per click but that isn't really the
    way o go - could be setting your expectations up higher than they
    should've been to begin with.

    The two things that determine how much your site will make - whether
    it is 500 click a day or higher/lower than 500 clicks a day :

    1. Your content offered. If the content sucks - or something that
    people may have read elsewhere already [nothing interesting or new] -
    then folks may leave, to find the type of content they are seeking,
    without clicking on any of the ads offered.
    2. The type of audience your content is attracting. Some content
    attracts a large number of folks but those folks not equating out to
    high clicks on the ads - because your content is not aimed at
    attracting in people thinking about "buying" [so why would they click
    on an ad you offered?].

    So really does depend on the content offered adn how you offer it. If
    you have 250 words on a page but 15 ads shared - may turn off folks
    that way too. You would get some clicks- don't get me wrong - but they
    may be sparodic [in frequency and in value - to you]. If you are
    presenting, say, an Web design tutorial then people, that you are
    attracting in, may not click on ads for web designer's services or -
    due to having a copy of DW or whatever already - not clicking to
    purchase a copy of those programs.

    And then, with something like Adsense or Adsense similar programs
    offered elsewhere, that uses your contents to determine the ads shared
    - you will want the ads targetted to YOUR content and not have a
    dating, people finder, or a "background check" ad showing up on a page
    about where you are sharing how to add a background image to a web
    page. ;)

    This isn't even considering the thoughts of if your traffic is 95%
    from the search engines or 35 to 45% returning traffic - as returning
    visitors [or regulars to your site] is theorized to, after a while,
    may be able to 'tune out' the advertising shared or, after the 2nd or
    3rd visit, not be as inclined to click on any ad offered on your
    pages. Or that certain content is rumored to share better pay-out ads
    than other content.

    I have two sites that I handle the advertising identically on [in
    terms of quantity and placement]. Unique Visitors amounts not shabby
    and both seem to equal footing on 'returning visitors' thoughts [about
    30% are 'regular readers' or following links from other sites - rest
    comes from search engines]. BUT their themes or topics are vastly
    different - one is humorous while the other is serious. One of them
    does fairly decent with - the other, however, gets maybe 5 clicks a
    month on the ads and most of those being the amazon links offered to
    books or certain music CDs [I went the Individual Links route with
    Amazon]. I am debating scraping all but the amazon links from the one
    site - people, the site attracts, seem to be kinda ok considering a
    music or book selection recommendation but not interested in much else
    offered 'for their consideration'.

    >I realize I am left to guess about the true number of hits, but I think I
    >can get a rough idea by googling link:www.domain.com and checking the
    >*quality *of *links, and generall checking of links, search engines,
    >checking key words etc. could give me a rough idea.


    I would advise reading through forums aimed at Adsense - as some of
    the tips shared for that are quite good to mull over when looking at
    your Amazon affiliate selections/handling on your pages. Some
    information shared doesn't go into specifics like how many hits or
    click throughs but discusses placement and such thoughts that you may
    find helpful also or just worth mulling over on your side.

    Some people have managed to make a nice sum of money through it - some
    have to wait 6 to 9 months for a check. Those who make a _really_ nice
    sum will share that most of them have tightly and nicely niched their
    contents so part of their success stems back to that [in their
    opinion]. WebMasterWorld is one place you can sit, with a cup of
    coffee or bottle of soda pop, to read through myriad of posts and
    threads about the topic. ;)

    But if you read about someone making a $100 a week; read it but don't
    let that have you become overly optimistic or pessimistic either. Each
    site is different, content and handling wise, even if that other
    person has a site about the same topic as yours.

    Carol
     
    Carol W, Mar 11, 2005
    #9
    1. Advertising

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