Performance issue with RDS using IIS6

Discussion in 'ASP General' started by Nikolay, Mar 3, 2004.

  1. Nikolay

    Nikolay Guest

    Two Windows boxes with identical COM objects and databases for comparing and
    testing purposes (2000 and 2003) exists as virtual mashines on one big host
    server. Network settings for
    these VMs are identical (except IP address, of course).

    We have on remote client request executing time (getting 3000 rows from DB ~
    1.4 Mb amount - measured via Network Monitor) about 3 sec on Windows 2000 VM
    and 50 (!) sec for 2003 VM. For local request both time are identical and ~
    1.5 sec.
    Without using RDS both machines have similar responce time for remote client
    characteristics, so the root of problem is RDS.
    Anybody have such problem? How to configure RDS on Windows 2003 to avoid
    such strange behaviour?

    Thanks for any suggestions,
    Nick
    Nikolay, Mar 3, 2004
    #1
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  2. Nikolay

    Bob Barrows Guest

    Nikolay wrote:
    > Two Windows boxes with identical COM objects and databases for
    > comparing and testing purposes (2000 and 2003) exists as virtual
    > mashines on one big host server. Network settings for
    > these VMs are identical (except IP address, of course).
    >
    > We have on remote client request executing time (getting 3000 rows
    > from DB ~
    > 1.4 Mb amount - measured via Network Monitor) about 3 sec on Windows
    > 2000 VM and 50 (!) sec for 2003 VM. For local request both time are
    > identical and ~
    > 1.5 sec.
    > Without using RDS both machines have similar responce time for remote
    > client characteristics, so the root of problem is RDS.
    > Anybody have such problem? How to configure RDS on Windows 2003 to
    > avoid such strange behaviour?
    >
    > Thanks for any suggestions,
    > Nick



    To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure RDS will work on W2003. I gave up
    on that beast (RDS) 5 yrs ago. It did not work well then, and I'm pretty
    sure it still does not work well. You may get it working well on your test
    machines, but when it comes time to deploy it into production, you will
    discover many configuration problems (I'm speaking from experience - I spent
    several weeks developing an application using RDS - due to the client and
    server configuration issues after deployment, I wound up having to rewrite
    that app).

    Look into using XMLHTTP instead if you need to do data access in client-side
    code.

    Bob Barrows


    --
    Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
    Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
    don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
    "NO SPAM"
    Bob Barrows, Mar 3, 2004
    #2
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  3. Nikolay

    Nikolay Guest

    Thanks for reply, Bob

    Now we have MS Project 2000 server under W2k with a lot of our own code
    (using RDS) for expand its functionality and think about migration to MS
    Project 2003 on Win2003 platform, so transition to another data transform
    technology is a very complicated.

    We are not lonely with this trouble. The same problem described in post "RDS
    Sloooow in IIS6" from HelpMe (microsoft.public.data.ado.rds newsgroup) from
    02.07.2004.

    Regards,
    Nick



    "Bob Barrows" <> wrote in message
    news:#...
    > Nikolay wrote:
    > > Two Windows boxes with identical COM objects and databases for
    > > comparing and testing purposes (2000 and 2003) exists as virtual
    > > mashines on one big host server. Network settings for
    > > these VMs are identical (except IP address, of course).
    > >
    > > We have on remote client request executing time (getting 3000 rows
    > > from DB ~
    > > 1.4 Mb amount - measured via Network Monitor) about 3 sec on Windows
    > > 2000 VM and 50 (!) sec for 2003 VM. For local request both time are
    > > identical and ~
    > > 1.5 sec.
    > > Without using RDS both machines have similar responce time for remote
    > > client characteristics, so the root of problem is RDS.
    > > Anybody have such problem? How to configure RDS on Windows 2003 to
    > > avoid such strange behaviour?
    > >
    > > Thanks for any suggestions,
    > > Nick

    >
    >
    > To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure RDS will work on W2003. I gave up
    > on that beast (RDS) 5 yrs ago. It did not work well then, and I'm pretty
    > sure it still does not work well. You may get it working well on your test
    > machines, but when it comes time to deploy it into production, you will
    > discover many configuration problems (I'm speaking from experience - I

    spent
    > several weeks developing an application using RDS - due to the client and
    > server configuration issues after deployment, I wound up having to rewrite
    > that app).
    >
    > Look into using XMLHTTP instead if you need to do data access in

    client-side
    > code.
    >
    > Bob Barrows
    >
    >
    > --
    > Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
    > Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
    > don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
    > "NO SPAM"
    >
    >
    Nikolay, Mar 3, 2004
    #3
  4. Nikolay

    Brian Muth Guest

    >
    > To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure RDS will work on W2003. I gave up
    > on that beast (RDS) 5 yrs ago. It did not work well then, and I'm pretty
    > sure it still does not work well. You may get it working well on your test
    > machines, but when it comes time to deploy it into production, you will
    > discover many configuration problems (I'm speaking from experience - I

    spent
    > several weeks developing an application using RDS - due to the client and
    > server configuration issues after deployment, I wound up having to rewrite
    > that app).
    >


    This is simply not true. We use RDS under Win2003 without any problems at
    all. Indeed, the reason we use it is that it is incredibly efficient, and in
    our hands, is MUCH more efficient than web services. For our application,
    this is very important.

    That's not to say that one should look for alternative solutions insofar
    that RDS has been deprecated.

    Unfortunately, I don't know how to address the problem that the OP posted,
    not having experienced it myself.

    Brian
    Brian Muth, Mar 3, 2004
    #4
  5. Nikolay

    Bob Barrows Guest

    Brian Muth wrote:
    >> To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure RDS will work on W2003. I
    >> gave up on that beast (RDS) 5 yrs ago. It did not work well then,
    >> and I'm pretty sure it still does not work well. You may get it
    >> working well on your test machines, but when it comes time to deploy
    >> it into production, you will discover many configuration problems
    >> (I'm speaking from experience - I spent several weeks developing an
    >> application using RDS - due to the client and server configuration
    >> issues after deployment, I wound up having to rewrite that app).
    >>

    >
    > This is simply not true. We use RDS under Win2003 without any
    > problems at all.


    Bravo! There aren't a lot of people who can make this claim, based on my
    google searches and conversations with other developers. You are to be
    congratulated.

    > Indeed, the reason we use it is that it is
    > incredibly efficient, and in our hands, is MUCH more efficient than
    > web services. For our application, this is very important.
    >


    Well, I did not say anything about using web services so I'm not sure of the
    relevance of this. From my standpoint, it has been much more trouble-free to
    use XMLHTTP for client-server communications. I have not had to touch a
    client machine to make it work, whereas I had many client configuration
    issues when attempting to use RDS.

    As for efficiency/performance, I have not been able to test this so I can
    make no comment.

    Bob Barrows

    --
    Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
    Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
    don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
    "NO SPAM"
    Bob Barrows, Mar 3, 2004
    #5
  6. Nikolay

    Brian Muth Guest

    >
    > Well, I did not say anything about using web services so I'm not sure of

    the
    > relevance of this. From my standpoint, it has been much more trouble-free

    to
    > use XMLHTTP for client-server communications. I have not had to touch a
    > client machine to make it work, whereas I had many client configuration
    > issues when attempting to use RDS.
    >


    We actually did experiment with XMLHTTP and did some benchmarks against RDS,
    and found that XMLHTTP ran about 30% to 50% slower. The gap also seemed to
    increase with the size of the payloads being transferred. This was about two
    years ago, so I can't claim this is would be the same today.

    And you are right about the fact that Win2003 requires some extra
    configuration steps. I've posted the recipe here before, but I can repost it
    again if anyone is interested.

    Curious that you have had client configuration issues. I've never had a
    client problem. The configuration changes I've made have always been on the
    server end.

    Brian
    Brian Muth, Mar 3, 2004
    #6
  7. Nikolay

    Bob Barrows Guest

    Brian Muth wrote:

    >
    > Curious that you have had client configuration issues. I've never had
    > a client problem. The configuration changes I've made have always
    > been on the server end.
    >

    My memory about the specifics of the client problems is very hazy. The app
    would run on most of the clients, but there were a couple here and there
    where it would not run, despite upgrading MDAC, etc. After a couple client
    machines had to be rebuilt, the "request" was made for me to rewrite the
    application without RDS. Given the server configuration issues we also
    faced, our organization was decidedly soured on RDS after this. They won't
    even allow ADO code to be used on the client, so I can't even pass
    recordsets to the client via xmlhttp - all my client-side stuff is done with
    xml documents.

    Everything I've used xmlhttp for has performed adequately, but my
    requirements are probably different from yours. Since you have it working,
    all I can say is "more power to you".

    Bob Barrows

    --
    Microsoft MVP - ASP/ASP.NET
    Please reply to the newsgroup. This email account is my spam trap so I
    don't check it very often. If you must reply off-line, then remove the
    "NO SPAM"
    Bob Barrows, Mar 3, 2004
    #7
  8. Nikolay

    Nikolay Guest

    Thanks for reply, Brian

    Are you test your apps with sufficient transition to remote machine data
    amount (> 1 Mb)?
    No experienced inexplicable delays discovered at all?

    Nick

    "Brian Muth" <> wrote in message
    news:ewMT#...
    > This is simply not true. We use RDS under Win2003 without any problems at
    > all. Indeed, the reason we use it is that it is incredibly efficient, and

    in
    > our hands, is MUCH more efficient than web services. For our application,
    > this is very important.
    >
    > That's not to say that one should look for alternative solutions insofar
    > that RDS has been deprecated.
    >
    > Unfortunately, I don't know how to address the problem that the OP posted,
    > not having experienced it myself.
    >
    > Brian
    >
    >
    Nikolay, Mar 4, 2004
    #8
  9. Nikolay

    Brian Muth Guest

    I assume you mean "transmission" and not "transition".

    We have used RDS to move upwards of 50 MB of data in a single method call.
    Of course, there is a delay of several seconds because the network traffic
    becomes the bottleneck, but this has nothing to do with RDS per se. And it
    works.

    Brian
    Brian Muth, Mar 4, 2004
    #9
  10. Nikolay

    Nikolay Guest

    Thanks for reply, Brian

    "Brian Muth" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I assume you mean "transmission" and not "transition".


    Yes. Sorry for words mismatch. English is not my native language.

    >
    > We have used RDS to move upwards of 50 MB of data in a single method call.
    > Of course, there is a delay of several seconds because the network traffic
    > becomes the bottleneck, but this has nothing to do with RDS per se. And it
    > works.
    >
    > Brian
    >

    Good news. This give hope to us.

    >
    >
    Nikolay, Mar 5, 2004
    #10
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