Perl code design award?

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by J Krugman, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. J Krugman

    J Krugman Guest

    The Obfuscated Perl Contest and Perl Golf are venerable traditions
    in the Perl community, and among my favorite sources of puzzles.
    Unfortunately, they play too well into the stereotype of Perl
    software as being unmaintainable, impenetrable, hackish, "write
    only code", etc. (I know that this is an unfair stereotype, but
    it's most definitely out there.)

    I sure wish there was a yearly "official" award for excellence in
    Perl software engineering (for lack of a better term): Perl code
    that is well-designed and clearly coded, has excellent performance,
    is rock solid, and well documented.

    Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.

    jill
    --
    To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.
    J Krugman, Jun 6, 2004
    #1
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  2. J Krugman

    Greg Bacon Guest

    In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    J Krugman <> wrote:

    : [...]
    :
    : Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    : not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    : Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.

    Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
    It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.

    Greg
    --
    First fork() emulation and now select()? If we are not careful in ten years
    or so NT/W2K/W2010 will be almost as useful as UNIX was in mid-1980's.
    -- Jarkko Hietaniemi
    Greg Bacon, Jun 6, 2004
    #2
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  3. J Krugman

    J Krugman Guest

    In <> (Greg Bacon) writes:

    >In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    > J Krugman <> wrote:


    >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.


    >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
    >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.


    Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
    good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
    (Sorry, I should have made this point clearer.)

    jill
    --
    To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.
    J Krugman, Jun 6, 2004
    #3
  4. J Krugman

    Matt Garrish Guest

    "J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    news:c9v4fe$4da$...
    > In <> (Greg Bacon)

    writes:
    >
    > >In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    > > J Krugman <> wrote:

    >
    > >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    > >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    > >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.

    >
    > >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
    > >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.

    >
    > Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
    > good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
    > (Sorry, I should have made this point clearer.)
    >


    And what would be considered Perl coding excellence?

    The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
    perception of the language. I can make you a pretty safe bet that the vast
    majority of Perl coders don't write obfuscated code in their day-to-day
    coding, so you wouldn't be changing anything by making a prize for who can
    best adhere to the perlstyle guidelines.

    Your complaint seems to be against ignorance, and all the prizes in the
    world aren't going to change that. I doubt that any of these people even
    know there is a prize for obfuscation. You don't get the label of ignorant
    by being aware of these things, after all.

    I would also suspect that the emergence of PHP for Web scripting will do
    wonders for Perl's tarnished image. PHP appears to have taken away Perl's
    crown of official language of Web script kiddies, so hopefully Perl will no
    longer be associated with bad Web scripting and will instead be seen as the
    great glue language it's always been.

    And no one's stopping you from creating your own prize if you're so
    inclined. Don't expect someone else to do it for you.

    Matt
    Matt Garrish, Jun 6, 2004
    #4
  5. J Krugman

    J Krugman Guest

    In <LaHwc.974$> "Matt Garrish" <> writes:


    >"J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    >news:c9v4fe$4da$...
    >> In <> (Greg Bacon)

    >writes:
    >>
    >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    >> > J Krugman <> wrote:

    >>
    >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.

    >>
    >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant position.
    >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.

    >>
    >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be

    ^^^^^^^^
    >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.

    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
    >perception of the language.


    Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.

    jill
    --
    To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.
    J Krugman, Jun 6, 2004
    #5
  6. J Krugman

    Matt Garrish Guest

    "J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    news:c9vka0$8lc$...
    > In <LaHwc.974$> "Matt Garrish"

    <> writes:
    >
    >
    > >"J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    > >news:c9v4fe$4da$...
    > >> In <> (Greg Bacon)

    > >writes:
    > >>
    > >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    > >> > J Krugman <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    > >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    > >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
    > >>
    > >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant

    position.
    > >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
    > >>
    > >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be

    > ^^^^^^^^
    > >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
    > >perception of the language.

    >
    > Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
    >


    Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
    better? Does giving out Oscars prove that the quality of movies is getting
    any better?

    Your premise is naive. Does any other language have these awards you dream
    of? Yet you believe that Perl is a lesser language why, because someone you
    talked to said so? And because there aren't any awards to prove it isn't so?
    Maybe Perl needs stronger advocates who will stand up for the langauge. I've
    never run into anyone with such an opinion of the language, but maybe that's
    just me.

    It's commendable that you want to be an advocate of the language, but awards
    at best might stroke a person's ego but are not going to vault Perl to some
    position of great esteem that you seem to believe it is lacking.

    Matt
    Matt Garrish, Jun 6, 2004
    #6
  7. J Krugman

    J Krugman Guest

    In <pbJwc.5349$> "Matt Garrish" <> writes:


    >"J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    >news:c9vka0$8lc$...
    >> In <LaHwc.974$> "Matt Garrish"

    ><> writes:
    >>
    >>
    >> >"J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    >> >news:c9v4fe$4da$...
    >> >> In <> (Greg Bacon)
    >> >writes:
    >> >>
    >> >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    >> >> > J Krugman <> wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    >> >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    >> >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
    >> >>
    >> >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant

    >position.
    >> >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
    >> >>
    >> >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be

    >> ^^^^^^^^
    >> >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.

    >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >>
    >> >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
    >> >perception of the language.

    >>
    >> Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
    >>


    >Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
    >better?


    I'm beginning to see why: people can't read... *sheesh*

    jill
    --
    To s&e^n]d me m~a}i]l r%e*m?o\v[e bit from my a|d)d:r{e:s]s.
    J Krugman, Jun 6, 2004
    #7
  8. J Krugman

    Matt Garrish Guest

    "J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    news:c9vpcu$a60$...
    > In <pbJwc.5349$> "Matt Garrish"

    <> writes:
    >
    >
    > >"J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    > >news:c9vka0$8lc$...
    > >> In <LaHwc.974$> "Matt Garrish"

    > ><> writes:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> >"J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    > >> >news:c9v4fe$4da$...
    > >> >> In <> (Greg

    Bacon)
    > >> >writes:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    > >> >> > J Krugman <> wrote:
    > >> >>
    > >> >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    > >> >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would

    raise
    > >> >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant

    > >position.
    > >> >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
    > >> >>
    > >> >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be
    > >> ^^^^^^^^
    > >> >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.
    > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    > >>
    > >> >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
    > >> >perception of the language.
    > >>
    > >> Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
    > >>

    >
    > >Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
    > >better?

    >
    > I'm beginning to see why: people can't read... *sheesh*
    >


    Whatever you think you wrote, you didn't. And whatever intelligent thought
    you think you had is nowhere to be found. I see that dialogue is not what
    you are after but some affirmation of your laughable idea. Sad I've had
    spell it out in so many words for you, but maybe you'll learn to read
    through an entire posting next time.

    Matt
    Matt Garrish, Jun 6, 2004
    #8
  9. J Krugman

    bill Guest

    "Matt Garrish" sez:

    "J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    news:c9vka0$8lc$...
    > In <LaHwc.974$> "Matt Garrish"

    <> writes:
    >
    >
    > >"J Krugman" <> wrote in message
    > >news:c9v4fe$4da$...
    > >> In <> (Greg Bacon)

    > >writes:
    > >>
    > >> >In article <c9v110$3nn$>,
    > >> > J Krugman <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >: Maybe such award already exists (if so, what is it called?). If
    > >> >: not, I think that, indirectly (as a yearly showcase) it would raise
    > >> >: Perl's status in the software world a couple of notches.
    > >>
    > >> >Reason won't sway someone who chooses a backward and ignorant

    position.
    > >> >It'd be a futile effort in casting Perl before swine.
    > >>
    > >> Well, I think such recognition of Perl coding excellence would be

    > ^^^^^^^^
    > >> good in itself, irrespective of its effects on Perl's detractors.

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > >The way one writes their code will never have an effect on the general
    > >perception of the language.

    >
    > Please read what I wrote. I don't think I can say it any more clearly.
    >


    Have Web site of the day/week/month awards made coding on the Web any
    better?

    Your talent for impersonating a grade-A imbecile is indeed
    impressive... Please stop! You're killing me!

    -bill
    bill, Jun 6, 2004
    #9
  10. J Krugman

    Matt Garrish Guest

    "Purl Gurl" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > A yearly award is not such a bad idea, might be fun.
    >
    > However, you well know if any awards are to be given,
    > those awards will only be given to those within this
    > Perl Good Ol' Boys club, deserved or not. Those truly
    > deserving of recognition, who are "outsiders," will
    > not be rewarded, for any reason.
    >


    Wow, despite being functionally illiterate in English, you almost seem to
    understand what I've been trying to get through to this person. Rewarding
    code for being very code-ish is pointless, although I suspect your inability
    to write anything approaching decent code is what would really disqualify
    you.

    You alone could also give Perl a bad name, but as we all know no one outside
    of the newsgroup even knows or cares that you exist. In other words, the
    supposed impact on the language you claim you have is as non-existent as the
    influence any award would have beyond those few who care enough to enter.

    Matt
    Matt Garrish, Jun 6, 2004
    #10
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