Perl usage these days?

Discussion in 'Perl Misc' started by thumb_42@yahoo.com, Feb 10, 2004.

  1. Guest

    Just a curious question:

    What is perl being used for these days?

    Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)

    My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
    line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
    today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.

    So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
    get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?

    (Yes, I know these are FAQ's, but times change, I'm curious about what
    people think these days)

    Jamie
     
    , Feb 10, 2004
    #1
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  2. <> wrote:

    > What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    > Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)



    "There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are
    dreamt of in your philosophy."

    There is lots and lots of computing that is not "web related".


    > So... what are people doing with it?



    The same things they were doing with Perl for all those years before
    the web was invented, plus some more.


    --
    Tad McClellan SGML consulting
    Perl programming
    Fort Worth, Texas
     
    Tad McClellan, Feb 10, 2004
    #2
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  3. Ala Qumsieh Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:8s4Wb.270436$xy6.1380339@attbi_s02...

    > What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    > Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)


    I have been using Perl at work on almost a daily basis for at least 6 years,
    at three different companies in two different countries. Nothing of what I
    do is web or IT related.

    --Ala
     
    Ala Qumsieh, Feb 10, 2004
    #3
  4. Joe Smith Guest

    wrote:

    > What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    > Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)
    >
    > My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
    > line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
    > today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.


    http://www.slashcode.com/faq.shtml#Slashcodecom0

    -Joe
     
    Joe Smith, Feb 10, 2004
    #4
  5. at Guest

    On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:50:12 GMT, wrote:

    >Just a curious question:
    >
    >What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    >Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)
    >
    >My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
    >line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
    >today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.
    >
    >So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
    >get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?
    >
    >(Yes, I know these are FAQ's, but times change, I'm curious about what
    >people think these days)
    >
    >Jamie


    My $.02 worth:

    Perl is wonderful for text processing. We use it for batch processing
    of numerous types of files, generation of email from data content,
    generation of forms and formatted letters, etc., etc., etc.

    And, our production web site is 100% Perl.

    Bob
     
    at, Feb 10, 2004
    #5
  6. Guest

    Bob Mariotti <R.Mariotti(at)FinancialDataCorp.com> wrote:
    >
    > My $.02 worth:
    >
    > Perl is wonderful for text processing. We use it for batch processing
    > of numerous types of files, generation of email from data content,
    > generation of forms and formatted letters, etc., etc., etc.
    >
    > And, our production web site is 100% Perl.


    Sounds like you've got an excellent company.

    Are they hiring? <g>

    In my last company, all the perl was gradually phased out and replaced with
    java. (I have to admit, java does have more stable XML handling abilities, and
    we were an XML-centric place...)

    Was kind of sad because we started the company as a bunch of perl coders.

    I wonder, do you folks think maybe perl is declining because people are
    waiting for perl 6? (and adopting different languages in the meantime?)

    Jamie
     
    , Feb 11, 2004
    #6
  7. pkent Guest

    In article <8s4Wb.270436$xy6.1380339@attbi_s02>,
    wrote:

    > What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    > Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)


    OK, but how exactly do you know what language many web apps are written
    in, the ones that _don't_ have very obvious tell-tale marks (e.g.
    certain cookies or query string params, or particular filename
    extensions)? What about applications that are used in SSIs, so you never
    even know about them? Or applications that run behind-the-scenes doing
    on-demand content creation for example?

    It could be that the sites you happen to use are ones that seem to use
    PHP or Java, and you don't visit sites that seem to use perl.


    Anyway, to answer your original question we use perl to provide several
    hundred metric shedloads of dynamic content, a lot of constantly-updated
    content, searches, quizzes, games, user personalization, community
    software, message boards, weather forecasts, geographical data,
    syndication feeds, data capture, and Much Much More, and that's just the
    stuff on the web site.

    Behind that we have a content distribution network, something involving
    Real media serving, an array of Content Production and Management
    Systems, content moderation services, data mining tools, user
    administration, automated data munging pipelines, and a vast number of
    greater or lesser scripts for a wide variety of purposes.

    A quick 'du -sk' shows about 90 megabytes of stuff checked out of our
    CVS repository, and (after a little find...) there seem to be 195,000
    lines of .pl and .pm files, which is a subset of only our department's
    CVS.

    And that's just work stuff, so I think perl's quite popular in some
    places :)

    P

    --
    pkent 77 at yahoo dot, er... what's the last bit, oh yes, com
    Remove the tea to reply
     
    pkent, Feb 11, 2004
    #7
  8. Kevin Shay Guest

    wrote in message news:<8s4Wb.270436$xy6.1380339@attbi_s02>...
    > What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    > Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)


    Tens of thousands of websites (and not just weblogs, by any means) are
    built and maintained with Movable Type, an application written in
    Perl.

    --Kevin
     
    Kevin Shay, Feb 11, 2004
    #8
  9. Guest

    pkent <> wrote:

    > It could be that the sites you happen to use are ones that seem to use
    > PHP or Java, and you don't visit sites that seem to use perl.


    True, I suppose people could be using the .php extension for anything, but I
    can't see why one would do that. (also, .html's are in many cases perl I
    know, because I've done that myself. :)

    > Anyway, to answer your original question we use perl to provide several
    > hundred metric shedloads of dynamic content, a lot of constantly-updated
    > content, searches, quizzes, games, user personalization, community
    > software, message boards, weather forecasts, geographical data,
    > syndication feeds, data capture, and Much Much More, and that's just the
    > stuff on the web site.


    Have you ever regretted using perl? Ever get any flack from others about
    using it, and are there maintenance issues that say, wouldn't be there with
    other languages?

    Have you considered going with PHP/JSP/etc.. on the web side, but having
    those languages talk to a perl daemon? (I didn't ask would you consider, I
    wonder if you had already or perhaps the manager types tried to push it.)

    I've used perl on large projects before, I liked parts of it. seemed to work
    pretty good overall, except for the web interface stuff. (was an N-tier
    design)

    But, I got tons of flack for the 'perl' part. When I left they re-did all my
    work using EJB's. (and then the company more or less fell over.. :-/ )

    Now I'm wondering, if I ever do anything commercial, would it happen it
    again?

    It's kind of funny I went to one of suns java conventions. Got into
    conversations with people and sometimes when I'd say (somewhat shyly, this
    was a flipping java convention afterall) that my main project was in perl,
    the reaction was a hushed 'cool', I got the impression some of the
    developers there would actually perfer perl.

    Jamie
     
    , Feb 11, 2004
    #9
  10. Robert Guest

    wrote:
    <snip>
    > It's kind of funny I went to one of suns java conventions. Got into
    > conversations with people and sometimes when I'd say (somewhat shyly, this
    > was a flipping java convention afterall) that my main project was in perl,
    > the reaction was a hushed 'cool', I got the impression some of the
    > developers there would actually perfer perl.
    >
    > Jamie
    >

    That is is the what my Java instructor said when he asked us if we did
    any programming. I said "Perl" and he said "Cool".
     
    Robert, Feb 11, 2004
    #10
  11. Robert Guest

    wrote:

    > Just a curious question:
    >
    > What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    > Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)
    >
    > My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
    > line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
    > today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.
    >
    > So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
    > get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?
    >
    > (Yes, I know these are FAQ's, but times change, I'm curious about what
    > people think these days)
    >
    > Jamie

    I am a newbie at Perl. I chose Perl because I didn't want to worry about
    enforced white space and the headaches that brings. I took it as a
    challenge to write clear code. Also Perl seems to have every library
    that I could ever use. I use it for my websites for admining my Windows
    and Linux boxes and just scripting in general. It is my "do all"
    language. If I need to do something outside the scope of Perl I turn to
    Java but that has been a rarity.

    Take it from a newbie: "Perl is very cool" : )
     
    Robert, Feb 11, 2004
    #11
  12. Ian Cass Guest

    wrote:
    > Just a curious question:


    > So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people
    > actually get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?


    I get paid to write Perl on Linux. I write SMS protocol drivers, servers &
    parsers. I can write stuff in Perl in a fraction of the time that it takes
    our Java team to get something written. The end result is always smaller,
    tighter, faster and more efficient than the Java version.

    ---
    Ian Cass
     
    Ian Cass, Feb 11, 2004
    #12
  13. Caj Zell Guest

    wrote in message news:<8s4Wb.270436$xy6.1380339@attbi_s02>...
    > Just a curious question:
    >
    > What is perl being used for these days?


    I am a developer of signal processing algorithms, mainly for video
    compression and processing. This work is very focused on embedded
    systems and all running code is therefore in assembly and c. However,
    all system configuration, testing and reporting is implemented in
    Perl. So, this is very far from web applications and Perl has
    definitely found usage here. And it is cool.

    Caj Zell
     
    Caj Zell, Feb 11, 2004
    #13
  14. Brad Baxter Guest

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 wrote:
    >
    > I wonder, do you folks think maybe perl is declining because people are
    > waiting for perl 6? (and adopting different languages in the meantime?)
    >


    Perl isn't declining. It's the most-used language in the world, and its
    market share increases daily.

    Regards,

    Brad
     
    Brad Baxter, Feb 11, 2004
    #14
  15. Thomas Kratz Guest

    Pope Bob wrote:

    > Brad Baxter <> wrote:
    >
    >>Perl isn't declining. It's the most-used language in the world, and its
    >>market share increases daily.

    >
    >
    > What do you base your statement upon?
    >
    > All such generalizations are wrong, including this one....

    ^^^
    nice one! :) Was the joke intentional (no smiley) ?

    Thomas

    --
    open STDIN,"<&DATA";$=+=14;$%=50;while($_=(seek( #J~.> a>n~>>e~.......>r.
    STDIN,$:*$=+$,+$%,0),getc)){/\./&&last;/\w| /&&( #.u.t.^..oP..r.>h>a~.e..
    print,$_=$~);/~/&&++$:;/\^/&&--$:;/>/&&++$,;/</ #.>s^~h<t< ..~. ...c.^..
    &&--$,;$:%=4;$,%=23;$~=$_;++$i==1?++$,:_;}__END__#....>>e>r^..>l^...>k^..
     
    Thomas Kratz, Feb 11, 2004
    #15
  16. Brian Guest

    Brian, Feb 11, 2004
    #16
  17. pkent Guest

    In article <awgWb.277936$na.440399@attbi_s04>,
    wrote:

    > pkent <> wrote:
    > > It could be that the sites you happen to use are ones that seem to use
    > > PHP or Java, and you don't visit sites that seem to use perl.

    >
    > True, I suppose people could be using the .php extension for anything, but I
    > can't see why one would do that. (also, .html's are in many cases perl I
    > know, because I've done that myself. :)


    And also (more what I was getting at) if you have a url like
    http://example.com/foo/bar/baz ... well, you don't reall yknow whethe
    rfoo, bar or baz are actual directories under $DOCROOT or RewriteRules
    or Aliases or ScriptAliases or... :)


    <snip: we do lots in perl>

    > Have you ever regretted using perl? Ever get any flack from others about
    > using it, and are there maintenance issues that say, wouldn't be there with
    > other languages?


    Yes on all points, but with a good explanation:

    1) There are some things that are best expressed in C, some are best
    expressd in perl, or bash, and so on and on. A lot of things of course
    can be done in most languages, one way or another. I regret that a very
    small number of things that we use were done in perl rather than
    something _more appropriate to the problem_ - but sometimes it's not my
    choice :)

    That said, there is one enormous project written in C++ that I regret[1]
    was not written in perl, so it works both ways

    2) Plenty of people prefer python, C, java, whatever. At our place, cos
    we use so much perl, there is less flak - but still there is some.
    Sometime it's justified, e.g. an old version of perl that we use.
    Sometime's it not, and results from people's misunderstandings.

    That said, we also use oracle and mysql, and both of those get
    criticized for all sorts of reasons, so it's not limited to perl.

    3) I've had reasonably trivial but annoying issues maintaining a suite
    of OO classes recently. In java I would know what my member variables
    were called and they could be 'private' or 'protected'. Not the same
    thing in perl, which meant I had do do a little bit more grepping and
    testing.

    Now, that was annoying, but like I say pretty minor in the grand scheme
    of things. I'm sure that there would be maintenance headaches in _any_
    language - just different ones :)


    > Have you considered going with PHP/JSP/etc.. on the web side, but having
    > those languages talk to a perl daemon? (I didn't ask would you consider, I
    > wonder if you had already or perhaps the manager types tried to push it.)


    We use PHP for some things on a few of our internal development
    machines, because some developers have PHP skills and it's an
    appropriate solution to particular problems. On the live site there is
    currently no PHP and won't be for a good long time. I don't know the
    exact reasons.

    I have a feeling that we do use some JSP somewhere, but that would be on
    an application we bought in from somewhere else, and is running on its
    own boxes.


    > I've used perl on large projects before, I liked parts of it. seemed to work
    > pretty good overall, except for the web interface stuff. (was an N-tier
    > design)


    We've got a good number of large projects and I think that careful
    planning and design makes such things work, in any language. Perl can be
    used for enormous projects but you need the appropriate planning,
    architecture and design first - just as for any language.

    P

    [1] yeah, no worries, we'll just upgrade glibc on these critical servers
    and recompile the world shall we?

    --
    pkent 77 at yahoo dot, er... what's the last bit, oh yes, com
    Remove the tea to reply
     
    pkent, Feb 11, 2004
    #17
  18. Mike Guest

    > Just a curious question:
    >
    > What is perl being used for these days?


    I've been a web designer for about 8 years, and every single site I've
    done has used Perl in one way or another. Most of them use Perl pretty
    extensively if you count all of the SSI and backend programming. The
    main reason is so that I can be sure that the code will be stable
    regardless of the end-user capabilities, unlike Java.

    Mike
     
    Mike, Feb 12, 2004
    #18
  19. wrote:
    > Just a curious question:
    >
    > What is perl being used for these days?
    >
    > Seems almost everything web related I see is PHP or Java. (mostly PHP)
    >
    > My own experience is that Perl is wonderful for batch processing, command
    > line stuff, cron and specialized servers but compared to what is available
    > today, really doesn't seem suitable for serious web applications anymore.
    >
    > So... what are people doing with it? is it still alive? Do people actually
    > get paid to work in perl, or is it strictly a labor of love?


    I wrote a frontend for the audio system at an improv comedy club in Perl/Tk.
    It interfaces between a MySQL backend and an XMMS frontend, and runs under
    X11 or Win32.

    http://www.lunenburg.org/mrvoice/

    The great GUI bindings, combined with the vast module selection and Perl's
    ease of use, let me get a very useful and functional app up and running in
    a short period of time.

    --Wade
     
    H. Wade Minter, Feb 12, 2004
    #19
  20. Brad Baxter Guest

    On Wed, 11 Feb 2004, Brian wrote:

    > Sites listing the popularity of Perl and other languages:
    >
    > http://www.faqs.org/docs/artu/ch14s05.html
    > http://www.tiobe.com/tpci.htm
    > http://www.thebobo.com/language_popularity.php
    >


    IANAS, but http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/images/tpci_trends.gif, for
    example, doesn't strike me as an indication that Perl is particularly
    losing ground.

    Thanks, for the links. Obviously, I could search these out myself, too.
    I personally don't, however, particularly see a point in it. :)

    Regards,

    Brad
     
    Brad Baxter, Feb 13, 2004
    #20
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