Phase one working......sort of

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Richard, Dec 19, 2004.

  1. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Richard, Dec 19, 2004
    #1
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  2. Richard

    rf Guest

    Richard wrote:

    > http://www.geocities.com/r_bullis/scroll-rel.html
    >
    > I got my idea to at least work.
    > I know the validator doesn't like a few things ok?
    > Just showin it off.


    Since this "idea" does not respond to keyboard scrolling it is useless in a
    web situation.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 19, 2004
    #2
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  3. Richard

    Richard Guest

    rf wrote:

    > Richard wrote:


    >> http://www.geocities.com/r_bullis/scroll-rel.html
    >>
    >> I got my idea to at least work.
    >> I know the validator doesn't like a few things ok?
    >> Just showin it off.


    > Since this "idea" does not respond to keyboard scrolling it is useless in
    > a web situation.


    So why should a website be designed to accomodate less than 1% of the web
    users?
    You forgot to mention it doesn't conform to those hard of hearing or sight
    impaired either.
    maybe one day I'll make it compatible to keyboard scrollers and even give it
    "speech".

    And your website would be where?
    Richard, Dec 20, 2004
    #3
  4. Richard

    rf Guest

    Richard wrote:
    > rf wrote:
    >
    > > Richard wrote:

    >
    > >> http://www.geocities.com/r_bullis/scroll-rel.html
    > >>
    > >> I got my idea to at least work.
    > >> I know the validator doesn't like a few things ok?
    > >> Just showin it off.

    >
    > > Since this "idea" does not respond to keyboard scrolling it is useless

    in
    > > a web situation.

    >
    > So why should a website be designed to accomodate less than 1% of the web
    > users?


    More like 10%.

    > You forgot to mention it doesn't conform to those hard of hearing or sight
    > impaired either.


    You are correct. It doesn't work for the visually challenged. Black on red
    is impossible. Javascript navigation does not work with screen readers. The
    "scroll" bar looks more like decoration than a real scroll bar. The entire
    site is bundled into exactly one file so I have to download your entire
    "site" to see the first page, which might be a serious problem for dial up
    users. All up a dismal effort IMHO.

    Now that you have removed the "scroll bar" paradigm, alienated those without
    javascript, those without a mouse and those who don't see very well or have
    a slow connection I think your 1% is probably in error by an order of
    magnitude or two.

    > maybe one day I'll make it compatible to keyboard scrollers and even give

    it
    > "speech".


    Maybe one day you will be able to create something that actually works. You
    could start by making this one work when I change my font size. When I do
    that "scroll bar" doesn't work any more, not untill I refres the page.

    What is wrong with a simple div with overflow: auto, instead of all that
    gratutious javascript?

    While you are at it you should figure out a method of bookmarking a "page".
    At the moment it is worse than frames. At least some browsers *can*
    "bookmark" a frames site.

    > And your website would be where?


    And what would any web site I have written have to do with this? In any
    case, those I *have* written can be used by people who don't have
    javascript, who cannot see and who don't have a mouse. They also fit nicely
    on the users viewport and don't make my eyes bleed. I also don't host them
    on Yahoo.

    I suppose you will serve up this by way of example:
    http://www.geocities.com/r_bullis/

    A page if gibberish beside a bunch of links that all lead to the same place?

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 20, 2004
    #4
  5. In article <MPpxd.79806$>, rf@.invalid
    says...
    > Richard wrote:
    > > And your website would be where?

    >
    > And what would any web site I have written have to do with this? In any
    > case, those I *have* written can be used by people who don't have
    > javascript, who cannot see and who don't have a mouse. They also fit nicely
    > on the users viewport and don't make my eyes bleed. I also don't host them
    > on Yahoo.


    Show and tell, then.

    --
    Hywel http://kibo.org.uk/
    I do not eat quiche.
    Hywel Jenkins, Dec 20, 2004
    #5
  6. Richard

    rf Guest

    Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    > In article <MPpxd.79806$>, rf@.invalid
    > says...
    > >
    > > And what would any web site I have written have to do with this? In any
    > > case, those I *have* written can be used by people who don't have
    > > javascript, who cannot see and who don't have a mouse. They also fit

    nicely
    > > on the users viewport and don't make my eyes bleed. I also don't host

    them
    > > on Yahoo.

    >
    > Show and tell, then.


    http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/excel.htm

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 20, 2004
    #6
  7. Richard wrote:
    > rf wrote:
    >
    >>Since this "idea" does not respond to keyboard scrolling it is useless in
    >>a web situation.

    >
    > So why should a website be designed to accomodate less than 1% of the web
    > users?


    Doesn't work with a mouse wheel, either. Good randint(25,100) percent of
    the Web population there.

    > You forgot to mention it doesn't conform to those hard of hearing or sight
    > impaired either.
    > maybe one day I'll make it compatible to keyboard scrollers and even give it
    > "speech".


    And yet if you had done things right, it would work for everyone -- and
    with less effort on your part.
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 20, 2004
    #7
  8. Richard

    Richard Guest

    Leif K-Brooks wrote:

    > Richard wrote:
    >> rf wrote:
    >>
    >>>Since this "idea" does not respond to keyboard scrolling it is useless in
    >>>a web situation.

    >>
    >> So why should a website be designed to accomodate less than 1% of the web
    >> users?


    > Doesn't work with a mouse wheel, either. Good randint(25,100) percent of
    > the Web population there.



    Hell, I've got a logitech cordless with scroll wheel, and it hasn't worked
    in ages on anything.
    Even with proper drivers and settings the scroll wheel does nothing.


    >> You forgot to mention it doesn't conform to those hard of hearing or
    >> sight impaired either. maybe one day I'll make it compatible to keyboard
    >> scrollers and even give it "speech".


    > And yet if you had done things right, it would work for everyone -- and
    > with less effort on your part.


    And yet, if it wasn't me doing the thing, you wouldn't have made that
    remark.
    Richard, Dec 20, 2004
    #8
  9. Richard

    Richard Guest

    rf wrote:

    > Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    >> In article <MPpxd.79806$>, rf@.invalid
    >> says...
    > >>
    > >> And what would any web site I have written have to do with this? In any
    > >> case, those I *have* written can be used by people who don't have
    > >> javascript, who cannot see and who don't have a mouse. They also fit

    > nicely
    > >> on the users viewport and don't make my eyes bleed. I also don't host

    > them
    > >> on Yahoo.

    >>
    >> Show and tell, then.


    > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/excel.htm


    What a frickin joke.
    You bash me around for not having "alt" tags, and here you are not doing it
    yourself.
    Then you have the damn nerve to use tables for presentation.
    Not to mention the use of [cough choke cough cough} Front Page.

    Then you leave in a link taking visitors to a page that no longer exists.

    And you say you've designed websites for others? For free I hope.
    Richard, Dec 20, 2004
    #9
  10. Richard

    rf Guest

    Richard whined:
    > rf wrote:
    >
    > > Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    > >> In article <MPpxd.79806$>,

    rf@.invalid
    > >> says...
    > > >>
    > > >> And what would any web site I have written have to do with this? In

    any
    > > >> case, those I *have* written can be used by people who don't have
    > > >> javascript, who cannot see and who don't have a mouse. They also fit

    > > nicely
    > > >> on the users viewport and don't make my eyes bleed. I also don't

    host
    > > them
    > > >> on Yahoo.
    > >>
    > >> Show and tell, then.

    >
    > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/excel.htm

    >
    > What a frickin joke.


    I was hoping you would reply to this post :)

    > You bash me around for not having "alt" tags, and here you are not doing

    it
    > yourself.


    Microsoft excel has no concept of alt tags. And when have I specifically
    complained about *your* lack of alt tags?

    > Then you have the damn nerve to use tables for presentation.


    Microsoft excel uses tables for presentation. That is because Microsoft
    excel is a spreadsheet. A spreadsheet is basically a table, used to lay out
    tabular data. Microsoft excel does not know that a few words of text and an
    image are not data. That is why Microsoft excel uses tables for layout.

    > Not to mention the use of [cough choke cough cough} Front Page.


    (your brackets and braces are mismatched)

    Where did I use frontpage? Oh, I see, yes, Microsoft excel does put in the
    frontpage meta elements. Hang on, no it doesn't. Perhaps I at one stage
    downloaded this page from the web site to Microsoft Frontpage. Ah yes, I
    remember now, I lost the "source" once and downloaded it from the web site,
    into Microsoft Frontpage, just to see what it would do :)
    >
    > Then you leave in a link taking visitors to a page that no longer exists.


    No, the page does exist. It is just that it is obsolete (I wrote it years
    ago) and no longer reflects either my way of thinking nor those of this
    group. So, I prefer to not publish its whereabouts. However, in the
    interests of keeping the page I published in this thread intact, and the
    links live, I leave a stub page there so as to not cause a 404.

    > And you say you've designed websites for others? For free I hope.


    Where did I ever say that I have designed websites for others? Check every
    single one of my posts in usenet over the last eight years and you will
    never see me claiming that I design web pages for others. Crikey, you can't
    even get your flaming right :)

    As to the link I provided:

    Right over your head, like an aeroplane.

    Straight through to the wicket keeper. (a Cricket term, ask some of the .uk
    people what it means)

    This page, my good sir, is a *joke*, a parody. It is a page made with
    Microsoft Excel that I often serve up when people complain how badly
    Microsoft Frontpage does at writing HTML. It is there to prove that there
    are worse things than Microsoft Frontpage out there.

    However I really didn't expect you to appreciate any of my sense of humour,
    me being Australian and all. I keep forgetting that the U S of A citizens
    require a joke to be explained to them in advance :)

    In any case the scroll bar does work in this page, which I must say is
    better than your scroll bar.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 20, 2004
    #10
  11. ========
    > And your website would be where?


    And what would any web site I have written have to do with this? In any
    case, those I *have* written can be used by people who don't have
    javascript, who cannot see and who don't have a mouse. They also fit
    nicely
    on the users viewport and don't make my eyes bleed. I also don't host
    them
    on Yahoo.
    ==========

    So why dont you want to show us one of your sites? Not a personal
    site, or a "here's my HTML tutorial site", how about a real site you
    did for a company? This is not a "challenge", and not directed
    specifically at you Richard, but how about some urls for sites that you
    (again not you specifically) have created for companies?

    Everyone is so quick to tell everyone else what is wrong, and what they
    SHOULD do, how about some real world examples?

    Or is everyone here fearfull that if they give out their client's url,
    that someone else will try to steal them away?

    How about it folks? How about some real life examples of work you have
    done.

    Anyone? Anyone? Buler?
    Travis Newbury, Dec 20, 2004
    #11
  12. ==========
    > Show and tell, then.


    http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/excel.htm
    ==========

    Great example. Probalby doesn't have a lot of draw though....

    I am disapointed. If you (anyone) could show us a few sites they built
    for a company (again not your personal page or your "html" tutorial
    page) it would be great.
    (I won't hold my breath while we wait....)

    --
    -=*Tm*=-
    Travis Newbury, Dec 20, 2004
    #12
  13. Richard

    rf Guest

    "Travis Newbury" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > ==========
    > > Show and tell, then.

    >
    > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/excel.htm
    > ==========
    >
    > Great example. Probalby doesn't have a lot of draw though....


    Sucked in as well ;-)

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
    rf, Dec 20, 2004
    #13
  14. =====
    > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/excel.htm
    > Great example. Probalby doesn't have a lot of draw though....

    Sucked in as well ;-)
    =====

    How about it Richard? Lead the way with some real examples. (Not a
    challenge, a request) Pick a comercial site you did, and compare it
    with their compeditor. Lets see why it is better.

    --
    -=Tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Dec 20, 2004
    #14
  15. Richard

    Steve Pugh Guest

    On 20 Dec 2004 04:38:43 -0800, "Travis Newbury"
    <> wrote:

    >How about it Richard? Lead the way with some real examples. (Not a
    >challenge, a request) Pick a comercial site you did, and compare it
    >with their compeditor. Lets see why it is better.


    What makes you think that rf has built any commercial sites? This
    newsgroup is for all HTML authors not just those building commercial
    sites.

    I'm certainly not going to discuss any of the commercial sites I've
    built here for various reasons. It would be unprofessional and in some
    cases a breach of contract. And commercial sites are team efforts
    (except at the very bottom end of the market) and I don't want there
    to be any confusion about the parts of the site I was responsible and
    the parts which had nothing to do with me (for example one site was
    valid XHTML (as per the project spec) when I handed it over. But the
    ASP monkeys managed to change <img alt="" /> to <IMG ALT> in their
    output...)

    Steve
    Steve Pugh, Dec 20, 2004
    #15
  16. =====
    I'm certainly not going to discuss any of the commercial sites I've
    built here for various reasons. It would be unprofessional and in some
    cases a breach of contract. And commercial sites are team efforts
    (except at the very bottom end of the market) and I don't want there
    to be any confusion about the parts of the site I was responsible and
    the parts which had nothing to do with me (for example one site was
    valid XHTML (as per the project spec) when I handed it over.
    =====

    I will take that as a "no, I don't have a real world example."
    Anyone else? Talk is getting cheaper by the post....

    --
    -=Tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Dec 20, 2004
    #16
  17. Richard

    Steve Pugh Guest

    On 20 Dec 2004 05:12:34 -0800, "Travis Newbury"
    <> wrote:

    >=====
    >I'm certainly not going to discuss any of the commercial sites I've
    >built here for various reasons. It would be unprofessional and in some
    >cases a breach of contract. And commercial sites are team efforts
    >(except at the very bottom end of the market) and I don't want there
    >to be any confusion about the parts of the site I was responsible and
    >the parts which had nothing to do with me (for example one site was
    >valid XHTML (as per the project spec) when I handed it over.
    >=====
    >
    >I will take that as a "no, I don't have a real world example."


    You can take it any way you like.
    I think what I wrote was quite straightforward and easy to understand.

    >Anyone else? Talk is getting cheaper by the post....


    You get what you pay for.

    Steve
    Steve Pugh, Dec 20, 2004
    #17
  18. =====
    >I will take that as a "no, I don't have a real world example."

    You can take it any way you like.
    I think what I wrote was quite straightforward and easy to understand.
    =====

    Yes, you were straight forward. You do not have an example you are
    willing to show. Which is exactly what I said.

    =====
    >Anyone else? Talk is getting cheaper by the post....

    You get what you pay for.
    =====

    This includes good and bad advice apparently.

    --
    -=Tn=-
    Travis Newbury, Dec 20, 2004
    #18
  19. Richard

    Guest

    rf wrote:
    > Richard whined:
    > > rf wrote:
    > >
    > > > Hywel Jenkins wrote:
    > > >> In article <MPpxd.79806$>,

    > rf@.invalid
    > > >> says...
    > > > >>
    > > > >> And what would any web site I have written have to do with

    this? In
    > any
    > > > >> case, those I *have* written can be used by people who don't

    have
    > > > >> javascript, who cannot see and who don't have a mouse. They

    also fit
    > > > nicely
    > > > >> on the users viewport and don't make my eyes bleed. I also

    don't
    > host
    > > > them
    > > > >> on Yahoo.
    > > >>
    > > >> Show and tell, then.

    > >
    > > > http://users.bigpond.net.au/rf/excel.htm

    > >
    > > What a frickin joke.

    >
    > I was hoping you would reply to this post :)


    Surely I'm not the only one here that heard the "whoosh" as your site
    went over RtS' head?

    --
    Hywel
    , Dec 20, 2004
    #19
  20. Richard

    Neal Guest

    rf:

    > I keep forgetting that the U S of A citizens
    > require a joke to be explained to them in advance :)


    Boooooo!!
    Neal, Dec 20, 2004
    #20
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