prealoding and "_blank" linking

Discussion in 'HTML' started by gtanasa, Jun 6, 2004.

  1. gtanasa

    gtanasa Guest

    Prealoding the visuals for my site is really cool, it loads easier whe
    you browse the different pages BUT I also have some links to photos an
    other sites which open in new windows for the viewer's convenience AN
    my problem is that when you return to my site's window the swap imag
    buttons of the navbar and other slices are very slow as if they ar
    loading again. If I don't use the _blank option for the link
    everything is OK but I find it more elegant to open links in ne
    windows, so can anyone give me any clues around this problem?
    Thank you in advance
    -
    gtanas
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    gtanasa, Jun 6, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. gtanasa

    Karl Groves Guest

    "gtanasa" <4designers.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Prealoding the visuals for my site is really cool, it loads easier when
    > you browse the different pages BUT I also have some links to photos and
    > other sites which open in new windows for the viewer's convenience


    Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    -Karl
     
    Karl Groves, Jun 6, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. gtanasa

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <c9v1us$4e1$>,
    says...
    > > Prealoding the visuals for my site is really cool, it loads easier when
    > > you browse the different pages BUT I also have some links to photos and
    > > other sites which open in new windows for the viewer's convenience

    > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.


    Thanks for you opinion. but you can not speak for all, just yourself.
    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jun 6, 2004
    #3
  4. gtanasa

    Art Sackett Guest

    Karl Groves <> wrote:

    > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.


    Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    Concept. What a reality.

    --
    Art Sackett,
    Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
     
    Art Sackett, Jun 7, 2004
    #4
  5. gtanasa

    Neal Guest

    On 7 Jun 2004 11:15:09 GMT, Art Sackett <>
    wrote:

    > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    >
    >> Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    >
    > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.


    Can you cite reasons you'd think opening a new window would be preferable?
     
    Neal, Jun 7, 2004
    #5
  6. gtanasa

    Karl Groves Guest

    "Art Sackett" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    >
    > > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    >
    > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.


    I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".
    I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and frustrated by
    them.

    -Karl
     
    Karl Groves, Jun 7, 2004
    #6
  7. gtanasa

    Chris Morris Guest

    "Karl Groves" <> writes:
    > "Art Sackett" <> wrote in message
    > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    > >
    > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    >
    > I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".
    > I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and frustrated by
    > them.


    Hmm. I had a web application [1] which was basically a (potentially)
    long form. Information related to filling in the form was available on
    other pages (there was just too much of it to fit on the same
    page). So, I started with links to the information by the relevant
    form controls. You could access them before you started filling in the
    form, but people didn't bother.

    At this point (no matter what I did to the caching headers to try to
    be friendly) _some_ browsers would lose the partially-completed form
    information when the user went off to one of these links and then came
    back. I got a lot of complaints about this.

    Solution: Put *two* links to each resource - one that opens same
    window, one that opens new window. No complaints [2]. Proportion of
    forms requested but not completed (they needed authentication to
    complete, so I could get this fairly accurately) fell. About 5/6 of
    hits went for the new window links, but on the other hand it was on
    the left of the two links, so this could be mostly people not caring
    which link they use.

    Yes, _I_ know that a normal link can be opened in a new window in some
    browsers by right-click / shift-click / etc. The problem was that the
    users *didn't*, and it wasn't practical for me to tell them in this
    application, given the number of different ways in different browsers
    to do it.

    [1] Online voting - preference orders for options/candidates.
    [2] Okay, still various complaints/suggestions, but none related to
    this.

    --
    Chris
     
    Chris Morris, Jun 7, 2004
    #7
  8. gtanasa

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > >> Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    > Can you cite reasons you'd think opening a new window would be preferable?


    Why? Any reason he could possibly give, you will poo-poo because you do
    not feel there is any justifiable reason.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jun 7, 2004
    #8
  9. gtanasa

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <ca1rr0$f34$>,
    says...
    > > > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    > I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".
    > I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and frustrated by
    > them.


    Which is why we are all different. And that is a good thing.
    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Jun 7, 2004
    #9
  10. gtanasa

    my-wings Guest

    "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    news:ca1rr0$f34$...
    >
    > "Art Sackett" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    > >
    > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    >
    > I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".
    > I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and frustrated

    by
    > them.
    >


    Well, I'm going to have one on my site. This is because I hate the shopping
    cart that I got for free, and I don't have time to learn perl or another
    language to correct what I perceive are its defects. So, I'm going low tech
    (sort of). If a user wants to order books, he can click on the "order books"
    link which will open a new window. In that new window, he can cut and paste
    the titles of desired books, and the form will be emailed to me.

    I'm opening in a separate window because book buyers like to browse, and
    this will enable them to keep the "order" window open while they examine as
    many titles as they want. I realize a more sophisticated user could
    right-click and "open in a new window" but I suspect many of my customers
    won't be that knowledgeable.

    This probably won't pass muster as a reason for opening a new window, but
    it's the best interim solution I can think of that will enable me to get on
    with selling books without becoming a programmer first. I just can't wait
    for life to get perfect before I do something, lol.

    Alice
     
    my-wings, Jun 8, 2004
    #10
  11. gtanasa

    Karl Groves Guest

    "my-wings" <> wrote in message
    news:qU9xc.46324$...
    >
    > "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    > news:ca1rr0$f34$...
    > >
    > > "Art Sackett" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.
    > > >
    > > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the

    best
    > > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    > >
    > > I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".
    > > I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and frustrated

    > by
    > > them.
    > >

    >
    > Well, I'm going to have one on my site. This is because I hate the

    shopping
    > cart that I got for free, and I don't have time to learn perl or another
    > language to correct what I perceive are its defects. So, I'm going low

    tech
    > (sort of). If a user wants to order books, he can click on the "order

    books"
    > link which will open a new window. In that new window, he can cut and

    paste
    > the titles of desired books, and the form will be emailed to me.
    >
    > I'm opening in a separate window because book buyers like to browse, and
    > this will enable them to keep the "order" window open while they examine

    as
    > many titles as they want. I realize a more sophisticated user could
    > right-click and "open in a new window" but I suspect many of my customers
    > won't be that knowledgeable.
    >
    > This probably won't pass muster as a reason for opening a new window, but
    > it's the best interim solution I can think of that will enable me to get

    on
    > with selling books without becoming a programmer first. I just can't wait
    > for life to get perfect before I do something, lol.
    >
    > Alice


    You can mark this day in your calendar as the day you were officially told
    that you've made the wrong decision.
    Then, when you've finally chosen to *hire* someone who knows WTF they're
    doing and you finally begin to turn a reasonable profit, you can then count
    the days back to today and dream of what could have been bought with the
    money you could be making had you made the right decision today.

    When you ask a random person on the street where they'd go to order books
    online, what do you think they say? Amazon.com
    Why don't they say <insert whatever Alice's site here> ?
    Well, there's countless reasons, not the least of which is their advertising
    budget and longevity.

    So, what can you offer that Amazon can't? Do you carry titles that they
    don't? Maybe, but probably not. Do you offer better shipping options? No
    friggin way. Do you offer better payment options? Definitely not (an
    e-mailed form? C'mon.).

    The truth of the matter is, any time you get an order, it will be due to one
    thing only: That you offered exactly what they were looking for at the exact
    moment that they were looking for it and they weren't about to go looking
    somewhere else. This isn't all bad. In fact, this is the reason why 98% of
    people use the Internet, anyway - to look for something specific.

    What it boils down to is that considering the fact that you'll never be able
    to compete with Amazon, you MUST do everything in your power to make your
    site easy to use. But here's the problem - It appears to me that you're
    ignorantly planning on doing everything you can to NOT succeed.

    First and foremost is this business of "In that new window, he can cut and
    paste the titles of desired books, and the form will be emailed to me."
    You're out of your mind if you think users are going to cut & paste titles
    of books into a form. And then what? Are you going to call them to get their
    credit card? Hell, at that point they coulda driven to the nearest Barnes
    and Noble and picked up the friggin thing.

    You say "I'm opening in a separate window because book buyers like to
    browse"
    How do you know this? Do you have experience watching "book buyers" interact
    with book websites? I doubt it. Because if you had, you'd have noticed that
    your new window is an unequivocal nuisance. If you'd like to give your
    users the ability to compare titles, then you need to program an interface
    that can do so. You're right in saying that people like comparing items
    before they buy, but vomiting new windows on the screen is definitely NOT
    the answer.

    >it's the best interim solution I can think of that will enable me to get on

    with selling books without becoming a programmer first
    The best "interim solution" is to hire someone that knows what they're
    doing. It isn't what you want to hear, but it is nevertheless the truth. If
    you're a brick & mortar book store, put up a page on the web that lists
    directions, hot titles, and a call-to-action that induces the visitor to
    call. In the meantime have an EXPERIENCED professional working on doing the
    site correctly. This is your *business* we're talking about here!

    -KArl
     
    Karl Groves, Jun 8, 2004
    #11
  12. gtanasa

    my-wings Guest

    "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    news:ca3bp1$hbp$...
    >
    > "my-wings" <> wrote in message
    > news:qU9xc.46324$...
    > >
    > > "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    > > news:ca1rr0$f34$...
    > > >
    > > > "Art Sackett" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.
    > > > >
    > > > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the

    > best
    > > > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.
    > > >
    > > > I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".
    > > > I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and

    frustrated
    > > by
    > > > them.
    > > >

    > >
    > > Well, I'm going to have one on my site. This is because I hate the

    > shopping
    > > cart that I got for free, and I don't have time to learn perl or another
    > > language to correct what I perceive are its defects. So, I'm going low

    > tech
    > > (sort of). If a user wants to order books, he can click on the "order

    > books"
    > > link which will open a new window. In that new window, he can cut and

    > paste
    > > the titles of desired books, and the form will be emailed to me.
    > >
    > > I'm opening in a separate window because book buyers like to browse,

    and
    > > this will enable them to keep the "order" window open while they examine

    > as
    > > many titles as they want. I realize a more sophisticated user could
    > > right-click and "open in a new window" but I suspect many of my

    customers
    > > won't be that knowledgeable.
    > >
    > > This probably won't pass muster as a reason for opening a new window,

    but
    > > it's the best interim solution I can think of that will enable me to get

    > on
    > > with selling books without becoming a programmer first. I just can't

    wait
    > > for life to get perfect before I do something, lol.
    > >
    > > Alice

    >
    > You can mark this day in your calendar as the day you were officially told
    > that you've made the wrong decision.
    > Then, when you've finally chosen to *hire* someone who knows WTF they're
    > doing and you finally begin to turn a reasonable profit, you can then

    count
    > the days back to today and dream of what could have been bought with the
    > money you could be making had you made the right decision today.
    >
    > When you ask a random person on the street where they'd go to order books
    > online, what do you think they say? Amazon.com
    > Why don't they say <insert whatever Alice's site here> ?
    > Well, there's countless reasons, not the least of which is their

    advertising
    > budget and longevity.
    >
    > So, what can you offer that Amazon can't? Do you carry titles that they
    > don't? Maybe, but probably not. Do you offer better shipping options? No
    > friggin way. Do you offer better payment options? Definitely not (an
    > e-mailed form? C'mon.).
    >
    > The truth of the matter is, any time you get an order, it will be due to

    one
    > thing only: That you offered exactly what they were looking for at the

    exact
    > moment that they were looking for it and they weren't about to go looking
    > somewhere else. This isn't all bad. In fact, this is the reason why 98%

    of
    > people use the Internet, anyway - to look for something specific.
    >
    > What it boils down to is that considering the fact that you'll never be

    able
    > to compete with Amazon, you MUST do everything in your power to make your
    > site easy to use. But here's the problem - It appears to me that you're
    > ignorantly planning on doing everything you can to NOT succeed.
    >
    > First and foremost is this business of "In that new window, he can cut and
    > paste the titles of desired books, and the form will be emailed to me."
    > You're out of your mind if you think users are going to cut & paste titles
    > of books into a form. And then what? Are you going to call them to get

    their
    > credit card? Hell, at that point they coulda driven to the nearest Barnes
    > and Noble and picked up the friggin thing.
    >
    > You say "I'm opening in a separate window because book buyers like to
    > browse"
    > How do you know this? Do you have experience watching "book buyers"

    interact
    > with book websites? I doubt it. Because if you had, you'd have noticed

    that
    > your new window is an unequivocal nuisance. If you'd like to give your
    > users the ability to compare titles, then you need to program an interface
    > that can do so. You're right in saying that people like comparing items
    > before they buy, but vomiting new windows on the screen is definitely NOT
    > the answer.
    >
    > >it's the best interim solution I can think of that will enable me to get

    on
    > with selling books without becoming a programmer first
    > The best "interim solution" is to hire someone that knows what they're
    > doing. It isn't what you want to hear, but it is nevertheless the truth.

    If
    > you're a brick & mortar book store, put up a page on the web that lists
    > directions, hot titles, and a call-to-action that induces the visitor to
    > call. In the meantime have an EXPERIENCED professional working on doing

    the
    > site correctly. This is your *business* we're talking about here!
    >


    Thanks for your opinion, Karl. I couldn't agree with you more, if I were
    taking on Amazon.com. But I'm not. Right now, I'm having too much fun
    learning to use CSS and recoding my website to be in compliance with HTML
    4.01 strict. So far, the only thing that doesn't validate is that
    "target=_blank" thing, and I know it's not optimum. If anyone can help me
    with that other question I've posted, though, I'll be ready to put up my
    non-sales content in the new format.

    Then I'll revamp the Access data base where I store my inventory so it will
    automatically generate my product pages and a Froogle feed. THEN I'll be
    ready to tackle PHP and MySQL, I think....or maybe try to understand the
    perl shopping cart they gave me. In fact, even though I love putting scarce
    and out-of-print books in the hands of new owners....it's possible that
    selling books is only an excuse to hang out in a newsgroup like this and do
    this other fun stuff. What do you think?

    Alice
    not giving up my day job yet, lol
     
    my-wings, Jun 8, 2004
    #12
  13. gtanasa

    Art Sackett Guest

    Neal <> wrote:

    > Can you cite reasons you'd think opening a new window would be preferable?


    1. Preservation of canvas for data, with controls for manipulating
    that data in a child window, e.g. intranet inventory control.
    2. Transient presentation needs, e.g. help systems, product
    comparison charts.

    My goal is always to get the user from point of entry to completion of
    task as easily/efficiently as possible. If a child window will aid me
    in accomplishing that goal, so be it.

    --
    Art Sackett,
    Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
     
    Art Sackett, Jun 8, 2004
    #13
  14. gtanasa

    Art Sackett Guest

    Karl Groves <> wrote:

    >> Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    >> possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    >
    > I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".


    I accept that you haven't seen one instance in which you thought a
    child window provided the best possible interface. I'll admit that I've
    seen many misapplications of the concept, as well. I don't hold any
    dogmatic beliefs about the nature of child windows.

    > I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and frustrated by
    > them.


    As have I -- more often attributable to the implementation than to the
    concept.

    --
    Art Sackett,
    Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
     
    Art Sackett, Jun 8, 2004
    #14
  15. gtanasa

    Adrienne Guest

    Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "my-wings"
    <> writing in
    news:bXbxc.24225$:

    >
    > "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    > news:ca3bp1$hbp$...
    >>
    >> "my-wings" <> wrote in message
    >> news:qU9xc.46324$...
    >> >
    >> > "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    >> > news:ca1rr0$f34$...
    >> > >
    >> > > "Art Sackett" <> wrote in message
    >> > > news:...
    >> > > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    >> > > >
    >> > > > > Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.
    >> > > >
    >> > > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's
    >> > > > the best possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying
    >> > > > crap.
    >> > >
    >> > > I've not seen one incidence where it is "the best possible".
    >> > > I have, in fact, seen users become completely disoriented and
    >> > > frustrated by them.
    >> > >
    >> >
    >> > Well, I'm going to have one on my site. This is because I hate the
    >> > shopping cart that I got for free, and I don't have time to learn
    >> > perl or another language to correct what I perceive are its defects.
    >> > So, I'm going low tech (sort of). If a user wants to order books, he
    >> > can click on the "order books" link which will open a new window. In
    >> > that new window, he can cut and paste the titles of desired books,
    >> > and the form will be emailed to me.
    >> >
    >> > I'm opening in a separate window because book buyers like to
    >> > browse, and this will enable them to keep the "order" window open
    >> > while they examine as
    >> > many titles as they want. I realize a more sophisticated user could
    >> > right-click and "open in a new window" but I suspect many of my
    >> > customers won't be that knowledgeable.
    >> >
    >> > This probably won't pass muster as a reason for opening a new
    >> > window, but it's the best interim solution I can think of that will
    >> > enable me to get on with selling books without becoming a programmer
    >> > first. I just can't wait for life to get perfect before I do
    >> > something, lol.
    >> >
    >> > Alice

    >>
    >> You can mark this day in your calendar as the day you were officially
    >> told that you've made the wrong decision.
    >> Then, when you've finally chosen to *hire* someone who knows WTF
    >> they're doing and you finally begin to turn a reasonable profit, you
    >> can then count the days back to today and dream of what could have
    >> been bought with the money you could be making had you made the right
    >> decision today.
    >>
    >> When you ask a random person on the street where they'd go to order
    >> books online, what do you think they say? Amazon.com
    >> Why don't they say <insert whatever Alice's site here> ?
    >> Well, there's countless reasons, not the least of which is their
    >> advertising budget and longevity.
    >>
    >> So, what can you offer that Amazon can't? Do you carry titles that
    >> they don't? Maybe, but probably not. Do you offer better shipping
    >> options? No friggin way. Do you offer better payment options?
    >> Definitely not (an e-mailed form? C'mon.).
    >>
    >> The truth of the matter is, any time you get an order, it will be due
    >> to one thing only: That you offered exactly what they were looking for
    >> at the exact moment that they were looking for it and they weren't
    >> about to go looking somewhere else. This isn't all bad. In fact, this
    >> is the reason why 98% of people use the Internet, anyway - to look for
    >> something specific.
    >>
    >> What it boils down to is that considering the fact that you'll never
    >> be able to compete with Amazon, you MUST do everything in your power
    >> to make your site easy to use. But here's the problem - It appears to
    >> me that you're ignorantly planning on doing everything you can to NOT
    >> succeed.
    >>
    >> First and foremost is this business of "In that new window, he can cut
    >> and paste the titles of desired books, and the form will be emailed to
    >> me." You're out of your mind if you think users are going to cut &
    >> paste titles of books into a form. And then what? Are you going to
    >> call them to get their credit card? Hell, at that point they coulda
    >> driven to the nearest Barnes and Noble and picked up the friggin
    >> thing.
    >>
    >> You say "I'm opening in a separate window because book buyers like to
    >> browse" How do you know this? Do you have experience watching "book
    >> buyers" interact with book websites? I doubt it. Because if you had,
    >> you'd have noticed that your new window is an unequivocal nuisance.
    >> If you'd like to give your users the ability to compare titles, then
    >> you need to program an interface that can do so. You're right in
    >> saying that people like comparing items before they buy, but vomiting
    >> new windows on the screen is definitely NOT the answer.
    >>
    >> >it's the best interim solution I can think of that will enable me to
    >> >get on

    >> with selling books without becoming a programmer first
    >> The best "interim solution" is to hire someone that knows what they're
    >> doing. It isn't what you want to hear, but it is nevertheless the
    >> truth. If you're a brick & mortar book store, put up a page on the web
    >> that lists directions, hot titles, and a call-to-action that induces
    >> the visitor to call. In the meantime have an EXPERIENCED professional
    >> working on doing the site correctly. This is your *business* we're
    >> talking about here!
    >>

    >
    > Thanks for your opinion, Karl. I couldn't agree with you more, if I
    > were taking on Amazon.com. But I'm not. Right now, I'm having too much
    > fun learning to use CSS and recoding my website to be in compliance
    > with HTML 4.01 strict. So far, the only thing that doesn't validate is
    > that "target=_blank" thing, and I know it's not optimum. If anyone can
    > help me with that other question I've posted, though, I'll be ready to
    > put up my non-sales content in the new format.


    Seriously, please do not open new windows using target="_blank". That
    could potentially spawn many, many windows, and could a) confuse the
    visitor, b) use up the visitors precious CPU resources. If you _MUST_ open
    a new window, at least let the user know you are going to do so, and let
    the user know that a new window will be opened each time.

    >
    > Then I'll revamp the Access data base where I store my inventory so it
    > will automatically generate my product pages and a Froogle feed.


    Wait... you're going to let _Access_ generate product pages? No... please
    say it isn't so, Access is worse than Word... If you're using Access, you
    might be able to use ASP which sometimes uses Access for its database

    THEN
    > I'll be ready to tackle PHP and MySQL, I think....or maybe try to
    > understand the perl shopping cart they gave me.


    A shopping cart is really pretty easy when you think about it. Usually, in
    order to use a shopping cart, you are required to select a username,
    password, etc. Then each time you are something to the shopping cart, the
    database probably looks something like: user=100&product=1

    > In fact, even though I
    > love putting scarce and out-of-print books in the hands of new
    > owners....it's possible that selling books is only an excuse to hang
    > out in a newsgroup like this and do this other fun stuff. What do you
    > think?
    >


    I love old, out-of-print books. I recently bought The American Woman's
    Cookbook, 1942, that I had when I was a teenager (no I was not a teenager
    in 1942, I wasn't even an egg in my mother). I'm on a quest now for some
    cookbook series that I've had and lost.

    > Alice
    > not giving up my day job yet, lol
    >
    >
    >


    If you need help, let me know. I love old books.


    --
    Adrienne Boswell
    Please respond to the group so others can share
    http://www.arbpen.com
     
    Adrienne, Jun 8, 2004
    #15
  16. gtanasa

    Art Sackett Guest

    Whitecrest <> wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > says...


    8< snip >8

    > Why? Any reason he could possibly give, you will poo-poo because you do
    > not feel there is any justifiable reason.


    If he wants to poo-poo my reasons, that's fine. My feelings won't be
    hurt.

    Oh, yeah: Long time no see! I hope all's well in your world. :)

    --
    Art Sackett,
    Patron Saint of Drunken Fornication
     
    Art Sackett, Jun 8, 2004
    #16
  17. gtanasa

    my-wings Guest

    "Adrienne" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns950253CFE2DEarbpenyahoocom@207.115.63.158...
    > Gazing into my crystal ball I observed "my-wings"
    > <> writing in
    > news:bXbxc.24225$:
    >
    >
    > Seriously, please do not open new windows using target="_blank". That
    > could potentially spawn many, many windows, and could a) confuse the
    > visitor, b) use up the visitors precious CPU resources. If you _MUST_

    open
    > a new window, at least let the user know you are going to do so, and let
    > the user know that a new window will be opened each time.
    >


    Yes...the link that opens that window is clearly labeled so the visitor
    won't get a surprise.

    > >
    > > Then I'll revamp the Access data base where I store my inventory so it
    > > will automatically generate my product pages and a Froogle feed.

    >
    > Wait... you're going to let _Access_ generate product pages? No... please
    > say it isn't so, Access is worse than Word... If you're using Access, you
    > might be able to use ASP which sometimes uses Access for its database
    >


    Well, I don't actually let Access generate the pages directly. I didn't
    spend all this time learning CSS to let Microsoft muck it up! (Maybe I'm a
    bit of a control freak, or maybe I just don't like things generated when I'm
    not exactly sure how they work. I'm doing my HTML in notepad, for instance.)
    What I do is use Access to store the book info, and then use some VBA (which
    I'm also learning as I go) to BUILD a page with the HTML I want in it.
    That's why I had to get my design for the site set before I re-worked my
    data base -- so I would know what I needed for code. I know there are better
    ways to do everything I'm doing, but I really have fun learning this stuff,
    and there is only so much I can comprehend at once. I would rather take it
    slow, and enjoy the process than beat myself up for not being able to do
    everything all at once.


    > THEN
    > > I'll be ready to tackle PHP and MySQL, I think....or maybe try to
    > > understand the perl shopping cart they gave me.

    >
    > A shopping cart is really pretty easy when you think about it. Usually,

    in
    > order to use a shopping cart, you are required to select a username,
    > password, etc. Then each time you are something to the shopping cart, the
    > database probably looks something like: user=100&product=1
    >


    Well, I did actually get the shopping cart working, but it was free, and I
    guess you get what you pay for. The most irritating thing about it was the
    search function. It would make a list of inventory, but the only choice the
    user had was to add the item to the shopping cart. There was no way to click
    on a link and view the item description. (I'm absolutely serious. I tracked
    this down to the provider site, and that's what the specs said. Who would
    buy anything, let alone an out-of-print book, based on title only, without
    being able to read a description?) Other problems included a very clunky
    option for calculating shipping by weight and the fact that the perl script
    created all the pages based on fields stored in txt files, and google wasn't
    spidering the site. I'm sure most of this is fixable if you know perl, but
    I'm just not ready to learn that yet.

    > > In fact, even though I
    > > love putting scarce and out-of-print books in the hands of new
    > > owners....it's possible that selling books is only an excuse to hang
    > > out in a newsgroup like this and do this other fun stuff. What do you
    > > think?
    > >

    >
    > I love old, out-of-print books. I recently bought The American Woman's
    > Cookbook, 1942, that I had when I was a teenager (no I was not a teenager
    > in 1942, I wasn't even an egg in my mother). I'm on a quest now for some
    > cookbook series that I've had and lost.
    >
    >
    >If you need help, let me know. I love old books.


    Thanks. I'm sure I'll be back, lol.

    Please feel free to contact me off list (un-munging the reply address is
    pretty obvious) if you'd like to continue the book discussion. I can point
    you to some good search sites if you're looking for specific titles.
    Learning the HTML and web stuff is fun, but books are my passion. I'm
    probably taking so long getting my site going because I don't really want to
    part with them!

    Alice
     
    my-wings, Jun 9, 2004
    #17
  18. gtanasa

    Don@NoSpam Guest

    Neal wrote:
    >
    > On 7 Jun 2004 11:15:09 GMT, Art Sackett <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.

    > >
    > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the best
    > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    >
    > Can you cite reasons you'd think opening a new window would be preferable?


    I have a genealogy web page and one of the feature is a listing or ancestral photos, there are in excess of 75! Assuming most people interested in genalogy are not young buck it's save to assume they have dial up modems. Why then, should they expected to reload the index file every time they view a photo?

    Doesn't make good sense to me.

    Also, I have a list of off-site URLs that offer this and that. I suspect users mitght want to visit and see that the link has to offer. If they stay, no big deal they just have another window open. Is that a burden on their operating system? If they decide not to say they don't have to reaload my Index.html file.

    Doesn't make good sense to me.

    Don
    Username munged by FixNews


    -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
    http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
    -----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
     
    Don@NoSpam, Jun 13, 2004
    #18
  19. gtanasa

    Karl Groves Guest

    <Don@NoSpam> wrote in message news:...
    >
    >
    > Neal wrote:
    > >
    > > On 7 Jun 2004 11:15:09 GMT, Art Sackett <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > > >
    > > >> Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.
    > > >
    > > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the

    best
    > > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.

    > >
    > > Can you cite reasons you'd think opening a new window would be

    preferable?
    >
    > I have a genealogy web page and one of the feature is a listing or

    ancestral photos, there are in excess of 75! Assuming most people
    interested in genalogy are not young buck it's save to assume they have dial
    up modems. Why then, should they expected to reload the index file every
    time they view a photo?
    >
    > Doesn't make good sense to me.


    Once the originating page has been downloaded, it and all the object it
    contains/ links to are placed in the browser's cache.
    Even though you think you're saving them from having to download stuff,
    you're actually having an opposite effect.

    -Karl
     
    Karl Groves, Jun 13, 2004
    #19
  20. gtanasa

    Karl Groves Guest

    "Karl Groves" <> wrote in message
    news:cagcnc$esf$...
    >
    > <Don@NoSpam> wrote in message news:...
    > >
    > >
    > > Neal wrote:
    > > >
    > > > On 7 Jun 2004 11:15:09 GMT, Art Sackett <>
    > > > wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Karl Groves <> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > >> Opening new windows *is not* a convenience for the user.
    > > > >
    > > > > Kinda depends upon *why* you're doing it, IMAO. Sometimes it's the

    > best
    > > > > possible user interface, sometimes it's just annoying crap.
    > > >
    > > > Can you cite reasons you'd think opening a new window would be

    > preferable?
    > >
    > > I have a genealogy web page and one of the feature is a listing or

    > ancestral photos, there are in excess of 75! Assuming most people
    > interested in genalogy are not young buck it's save to assume they have

    dial
    > up modems. Why then, should they expected to reload the index file every
    > time they view a photo?
    > >
    > > Doesn't make good sense to me.

    >
    > Once the originating page has been downloaded, it and all the object it
    > contains/ links to are placed in the browser's cache.


    Addendum - by "links to", I was referring to the images, style sheet(s), and
    any external scripts.

    -Karl
     
    Karl Groves, Jun 13, 2004
    #20
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