Problem Calling web service from ASP

Discussion in 'ASP .Net Web Services' started by Ken Pinard, Dec 26, 2003.

  1. Ken Pinard

    Ken Pinard Guest

    I am getting an internal error (500) when I call my web service from an ASP
    script. If I put the http line into the browser it returns the correct
    result. Below is the code I am using.

    Please help,

    Ken

    strServer = http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/validate

    set httpobj = CreateObject("MSXML2.XMLHTTP")
    httpobj.open "POST", strServer, false
    httpobj.send() 'result
    result = result & "after send: " & now & "<br>"
    result = result & "status value: " & httpobj.status & "<br>"
    result = result & "status text: " & httpobj.statustext & "<br>"


    The definition of the web service is as follows:

    <WebMethod()> _
    Public Function ValidateOrder() As String
    ' Dim req As HttpRequest
    Dim result As String = "<p>start validate order </p>"
    Return result
    End Function
    Ken Pinard, Dec 26, 2003
    #1
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  2. Ken Pinard

    Ken Pinard Guest

    Found it, the method name is case sensitive, it should have been:
    strServer=http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/Validate

    <onSoapBox>
    Why oh why does MS insist on keeping case sensitivity around when it is
    arcahic as PDP-8s. I would expect that when I am using VBScript to talk to
    VB.Net that it would be case insensitive. I know why it started, memory was
    in bytes, programs were stored on paper tape. But it has been 25 years, why
    do we have to suffer with being human pre-compiliers. (sorry had to get it
    out)
    </onSoapBox>

    Ken

    "Ken Pinard" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I am getting an internal error (500) when I call my web service from an

    ASP
    > script. If I put the http line into the browser it returns the correct
    > result. Below is the code I am using.
    >
    > Please help,
    >
    > Ken
    >
    > strServer = http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/validate
    >
    > set httpobj = CreateObject("MSXML2.XMLHTTP")
    > httpobj.open "POST", strServer, false
    > httpobj.send() 'result
    > result = result & "after send: " & now & "<br>"
    > result = result & "status value: " & httpobj.status & "<br>"
    > result = result & "status text: " & httpobj.statustext & "<br>"
    >
    >
    > The definition of the web service is as follows:
    >
    > <WebMethod()> _
    > Public Function ValidateOrder() As String
    > ' Dim req As HttpRequest
    > Dim result As String = "<p>start validate order </p>"
    > Return result
    > End Function
    >
    >
    Ken Pinard, Dec 26, 2003
    #2
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  3. Ken Pinard

    Jan Tielens Guest

    XML is case sensitive, SOAP uses XML, so SOAP is case sensistive. Since SOAP
    is not owned by Microsoft, I don't think that it's Microsoft's fault.

    --
    Greetz,
    Jan
    __________________________________
    Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    news:%23O2lLG$...
    > Found it, the method name is case sensitive, it should have been:
    > strServer=http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/Validate
    >
    > <onSoapBox>
    > Why oh why does MS insist on keeping case sensitivity around when it is
    > arcahic as PDP-8s. I would expect that when I am using VBScript to talk to
    > VB.Net that it would be case insensitive. I know why it started, memory

    was
    > in bytes, programs were stored on paper tape. But it has been 25 years,

    why
    > do we have to suffer with being human pre-compiliers. (sorry had to get it
    > out)
    > </onSoapBox>
    >
    > Ken
    >
    > "Ken Pinard" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > I am getting an internal error (500) when I call my web service from an

    > ASP
    > > script. If I put the http line into the browser it returns the correct
    > > result. Below is the code I am using.
    > >
    > > Please help,
    > >
    > > Ken
    > >
    > > strServer = http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/validate
    > >
    > > set httpobj = CreateObject("MSXML2.XMLHTTP")
    > > httpobj.open "POST", strServer, false
    > > httpobj.send() 'result
    > > result = result & "after send: " & now & "<br>"
    > > result = result & "status value: " & httpobj.status & "<br>"
    > > result = result & "status text: " & httpobj.statustext & "<br>"
    > >
    > >
    > > The definition of the web service is as follows:
    > >
    > > <WebMethod()> _
    > > Public Function ValidateOrder() As String
    > > ' Dim req As HttpRequest
    > > Dim result As String = "<p>start validate order </p>"
    > > Return result
    > > End Function
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Jan Tielens, Dec 26, 2003
    #3
  4. Ken Pinard

    Ken Pinard Guest

    So why would anyone make things case senstive? There is no reason that an
    interface standard has to be this way. So MS doesn't own it. Who ever had a
    hand in the process is stuck on the idea of keeping the concepts of "C"
    around. Its about time that the programming world caught up to the 1980's.
    FORTRAN, PASCAL, Ada and others all dealt with it. Why do we keep developing
    standards that are arcahic?

    Even if MS does not own it, why is this "Feature" so well undocumented on
    the MS site? When I was reading all of the help I found no reference to this
    type of issue. What a waste of time. Why should developers worry about case
    when we can spend our time working design and concepts. MS may not have
    created SOAP, maybe they had nothing to do with its input. Maybe MS had
    nothing to do with the the creation of XML. Maybe they did. MS has never
    worried about international standards before. Instead of following the bad
    examples of the past maybe MS can lead the way to better programming
    enviornments in the future. MS has always followed others, its time they
    lead to better ideas.

    Of course these comments are in my humble (though not quite) opinion. Its
    just after all these years, why do programmers have to be pre-compiliers?
    That is the job of the computer.

    Ken

    "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    news:eTInpV$...
    > XML is case sensitive, SOAP uses XML, so SOAP is case sensistive. Since

    SOAP
    > is not owned by Microsoft, I don't think that it's Microsoft's fault.
    >
    > --
    > Greetz,
    > Jan
    > __________________________________
    > Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    > "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:%23O2lLG$...
    > > Found it, the method name is case sensitive, it should have been:
    > > strServer=http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/Validate
    > >
    > > <onSoapBox>
    > > Why oh why does MS insist on keeping case sensitivity around when it is
    > > arcahic as PDP-8s. I would expect that when I am using VBScript to talk

    to
    > > VB.Net that it would be case insensitive. I know why it started, memory

    > was
    > > in bytes, programs were stored on paper tape. But it has been 25 years,

    > why
    > > do we have to suffer with being human pre-compiliers. (sorry had to get

    it
    > > out)
    > > </onSoapBox>
    > >
    > > Ken
    > >
    > > "Ken Pinard" <> wrote in message
    > > news:...
    > > > I am getting an internal error (500) when I call my web service from

    an
    > > ASP
    > > > script. If I put the http line into the browser it returns the correct
    > > > result. Below is the code I am using.
    > > >
    > > > Please help,
    > > >
    > > > Ken
    > > >
    > > > strServer = http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/validate
    > > >
    > > > set httpobj = CreateObject("MSXML2.XMLHTTP")
    > > > httpobj.open "POST", strServer, false
    > > > httpobj.send() 'result
    > > > result = result & "after send: " & now & "<br>"
    > > > result = result & "status value: " & httpobj.status & "<br>"
    > > > result = result & "status text: " & httpobj.statustext & "<br>"
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > The definition of the web service is as follows:
    > > >
    > > > <WebMethod()> _
    > > > Public Function ValidateOrder() As String
    > > > ' Dim req As HttpRequest
    > > > Dim result As String = "<p>start validate order </p>"
    > > > Return result
    > > > End Function
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Ken Pinard, Dec 26, 2003
    #4
  5. Ken Pinard

    Jan Tielens Guest

    Ken

    If you would have used your webservice from a .NET client, Visual Studio
    ..NET would have taken care of all the SOAP and XML stuff. So the
    pre-compiler would have been VS.NET. :) But I agree with you, I've spent
    quite some hours searching for an error which turned out to be a missing
    case, that sucks!

    --
    Greetz,
    Jan
    __________________________________
    Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    news:...
    > So why would anyone make things case senstive? There is no reason that an
    > interface standard has to be this way. So MS doesn't own it. Who ever had

    a
    > hand in the process is stuck on the idea of keeping the concepts of "C"
    > around. Its about time that the programming world caught up to the 1980's.
    > FORTRAN, PASCAL, Ada and others all dealt with it. Why do we keep

    developing
    > standards that are arcahic?
    >
    > Even if MS does not own it, why is this "Feature" so well undocumented on
    > the MS site? When I was reading all of the help I found no reference to

    this
    > type of issue. What a waste of time. Why should developers worry about

    case
    > when we can spend our time working design and concepts. MS may not have
    > created SOAP, maybe they had nothing to do with its input. Maybe MS had
    > nothing to do with the the creation of XML. Maybe they did. MS has never
    > worried about international standards before. Instead of following the bad
    > examples of the past maybe MS can lead the way to better programming
    > enviornments in the future. MS has always followed others, its time they
    > lead to better ideas.
    >
    > Of course these comments are in my humble (though not quite) opinion. Its
    > just after all these years, why do programmers have to be pre-compiliers?
    > That is the job of the computer.
    >
    > Ken
    >
    > "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    > news:eTInpV$...
    > > XML is case sensitive, SOAP uses XML, so SOAP is case sensistive. Since

    > SOAP
    > > is not owned by Microsoft, I don't think that it's Microsoft's fault.
    > >
    > > --
    > > Greetz,
    > > Jan
    > > __________________________________
    > > Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    > > "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    > > news:%23O2lLG$...
    > > > Found it, the method name is case sensitive, it should have been:
    > > > strServer=http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/Validate
    > > >
    > > > <onSoapBox>
    > > > Why oh why does MS insist on keeping case sensitivity around when it

    is
    > > > arcahic as PDP-8s. I would expect that when I am using VBScript to

    talk
    > to
    > > > VB.Net that it would be case insensitive. I know why it started,

    memory
    > > was
    > > > in bytes, programs were stored on paper tape. But it has been 25

    years,
    > > why
    > > > do we have to suffer with being human pre-compiliers. (sorry had to

    get
    > it
    > > > out)
    > > > </onSoapBox>
    > > >
    > > > Ken
    > > >
    > > > "Ken Pinard" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:...
    > > > > I am getting an internal error (500) when I call my web service from

    > an
    > > > ASP
    > > > > script. If I put the http line into the browser it returns the

    correct
    > > > > result. Below is the code I am using.
    > > > >
    > > > > Please help,
    > > > >
    > > > > Ken
    > > > >
    > > > > strServer = http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/validate
    > > > >
    > > > > set httpobj = CreateObject("MSXML2.XMLHTTP")
    > > > > httpobj.open "POST", strServer, false
    > > > > httpobj.send() 'result
    > > > > result = result & "after send: " & now & "<br>"
    > > > > result = result & "status value: " & httpobj.status & "<br>"
    > > > > result = result & "status text: " & httpobj.statustext & "<br>"
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > The definition of the web service is as follows:
    > > > >
    > > > > <WebMethod()> _
    > > > > Public Function ValidateOrder() As String
    > > > > ' Dim req As HttpRequest
    > > > > Dim result As String = "<p>start validate order </p>"
    > > > > Return result
    > > > > End Function
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Jan Tielens, Dec 27, 2003
    #5
  6. Ken Pinard

    Ken Pinard Guest

    Yes that would be nice, but not an option. Even as a programmer I still have
    a manager. And being a manager does not mean that all decisions are the
    best. So I live with what I have to do.

    Which still does not give an excuse for doing things the hard way.
    Especially since case insensititive compilers have been around since about
    1959 (ALGOL).

    For several years I had the good fortune to work in a language called Ada.
    While most people groan at that name. I found it very easy to work in, it
    took care of so many issues at compile time. It was very quick to develop
    code in. Many people said it was not truely object oriented and that is why
    it is not used. But I see all of the Ada capabilities except for one in Dot
    Net. That last one is Generics and rumor has it coming in the next full
    release.

    Happy programming

    Ken
    "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    news:u%...
    > Ken
    >
    > If you would have used your webservice from a .NET client, Visual Studio
    > .NET would have taken care of all the SOAP and XML stuff. So the
    > pre-compiler would have been VS.NET. :) But I agree with you, I've spent
    > quite some hours searching for an error which turned out to be a missing
    > case, that sucks!
    >
    > --
    > Greetz,
    > Jan
    > __________________________________
    > Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    > "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:...
    > > So why would anyone make things case senstive? There is no reason that

    an
    > > interface standard has to be this way. So MS doesn't own it. Who ever

    had
    > a
    > > hand in the process is stuck on the idea of keeping the concepts of "C"
    > > around. Its about time that the programming world caught up to the

    1980's.
    > > FORTRAN, PASCAL, Ada and others all dealt with it. Why do we keep

    > developing
    > > standards that are arcahic?
    > >
    > > Even if MS does not own it, why is this "Feature" so well undocumented

    on
    > > the MS site? When I was reading all of the help I found no reference to

    > this
    > > type of issue. What a waste of time. Why should developers worry about

    > case
    > > when we can spend our time working design and concepts. MS may not have
    > > created SOAP, maybe they had nothing to do with its input. Maybe MS had
    > > nothing to do with the the creation of XML. Maybe they did. MS has never
    > > worried about international standards before. Instead of following the

    bad
    > > examples of the past maybe MS can lead the way to better programming
    > > enviornments in the future. MS has always followed others, its time they
    > > lead to better ideas.
    > >
    > > Of course these comments are in my humble (though not quite) opinion.

    Its
    > > just after all these years, why do programmers have to be

    pre-compiliers?
    > > That is the job of the computer.
    > >
    > > Ken
    > >
    > > "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    > > news:eTInpV$...
    > > > XML is case sensitive, SOAP uses XML, so SOAP is case sensistive.

    Since
    > > SOAP
    > > > is not owned by Microsoft, I don't think that it's Microsoft's fault.
    > > >
    > > > --
    > > > Greetz,
    > > > Jan
    > > > __________________________________
    > > > Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    > > > "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    > > > news:%23O2lLG$...
    > > > > Found it, the method name is case sensitive, it should have been:
    > > > > strServer=http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/Validate
    > > > >
    > > > > <onSoapBox>
    > > > > Why oh why does MS insist on keeping case sensitivity around when it

    > is
    > > > > arcahic as PDP-8s. I would expect that when I am using VBScript to

    > talk
    > > to
    > > > > VB.Net that it would be case insensitive. I know why it started,

    > memory
    > > > was
    > > > > in bytes, programs were stored on paper tape. But it has been 25

    > years,
    > > > why
    > > > > do we have to suffer with being human pre-compiliers. (sorry had to

    > get
    > > it
    > > > > out)
    > > > > </onSoapBox>
    > > > >
    > > > > Ken
    > > > >
    > > > > "Ken Pinard" <> wrote in message
    > > > > news:...
    > > > > > I am getting an internal error (500) when I call my web service

    from
    > > an
    > > > > ASP
    > > > > > script. If I put the http line into the browser it returns the

    > correct
    > > > > > result. Below is the code I am using.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Please help,
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Ken
    > > > > >
    > > > > > strServer = http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/validate
    > > > > >
    > > > > > set httpobj = CreateObject("MSXML2.XMLHTTP")
    > > > > > httpobj.open "POST", strServer, false
    > > > > > httpobj.send() 'result
    > > > > > result = result & "after send: " & now & "<br>"
    > > > > > result = result & "status value: " & httpobj.status & "<br>"
    > > > > > result = result & "status text: " & httpobj.statustext & "<br>"
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > > The definition of the web service is as follows:
    > > > > >
    > > > > > <WebMethod()> _
    > > > > > Public Function ValidateOrder() As String
    > > > > > ' Dim req As HttpRequest
    > > > > > Dim result As String = "<p>start validate order </p>"
    > > > > > Return result
    > > > > > End Function
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Ken Pinard, Dec 27, 2003
    #6
  7. Ken Pinard

    Jan Tielens Guest

    Yes indeed, generics is comming in the next version of .NET! For more info,
    check out this article:
    http://www.microsoft.com/belux/nl/msdn/community/columns/wuyttersprot/generics.mspx

    --
    Greetz,
    Jan
    __________________________________
    Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    news:...
    > Yes that would be nice, but not an option. Even as a programmer I still

    have
    > a manager. And being a manager does not mean that all decisions are the
    > best. So I live with what I have to do.
    >
    > Which still does not give an excuse for doing things the hard way.
    > Especially since case insensititive compilers have been around since about
    > 1959 (ALGOL).
    >
    > For several years I had the good fortune to work in a language called Ada.
    > While most people groan at that name. I found it very easy to work in, it
    > took care of so many issues at compile time. It was very quick to develop
    > code in. Many people said it was not truely object oriented and that is

    why
    > it is not used. But I see all of the Ada capabilities except for one in

    Dot
    > Net. That last one is Generics and rumor has it coming in the next full
    > release.
    >
    > Happy programming
    >
    > Ken
    > "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    > news:u%...
    > > Ken
    > >
    > > If you would have used your webservice from a .NET client, Visual Studio
    > > .NET would have taken care of all the SOAP and XML stuff. So the
    > > pre-compiler would have been VS.NET. :) But I agree with you, I've

    spent
    > > quite some hours searching for an error which turned out to be a missing
    > > case, that sucks!
    > >
    > > --
    > > Greetz,
    > > Jan
    > > __________________________________
    > > Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    > > "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    > > news:...
    > > > So why would anyone make things case senstive? There is no reason that

    > an
    > > > interface standard has to be this way. So MS doesn't own it. Who ever

    > had
    > > a
    > > > hand in the process is stuck on the idea of keeping the concepts of

    "C"
    > > > around. Its about time that the programming world caught up to the

    > 1980's.
    > > > FORTRAN, PASCAL, Ada and others all dealt with it. Why do we keep

    > > developing
    > > > standards that are arcahic?
    > > >
    > > > Even if MS does not own it, why is this "Feature" so well undocumented

    > on
    > > > the MS site? When I was reading all of the help I found no reference

    to
    > > this
    > > > type of issue. What a waste of time. Why should developers worry about

    > > case
    > > > when we can spend our time working design and concepts. MS may not

    have
    > > > created SOAP, maybe they had nothing to do with its input. Maybe MS

    had
    > > > nothing to do with the the creation of XML. Maybe they did. MS has

    never
    > > > worried about international standards before. Instead of following the

    > bad
    > > > examples of the past maybe MS can lead the way to better programming
    > > > enviornments in the future. MS has always followed others, its time

    they
    > > > lead to better ideas.
    > > >
    > > > Of course these comments are in my humble (though not quite) opinion.

    > Its
    > > > just after all these years, why do programmers have to be

    > pre-compiliers?
    > > > That is the job of the computer.
    > > >
    > > > Ken
    > > >
    > > > "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    > > > news:eTInpV$...
    > > > > XML is case sensitive, SOAP uses XML, so SOAP is case sensistive.

    > Since
    > > > SOAP
    > > > > is not owned by Microsoft, I don't think that it's Microsoft's

    fault.
    > > > >
    > > > > --
    > > > > Greetz,
    > > > > Jan
    > > > > __________________________________
    > > > > Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    > > > > "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    > > > > news:%23O2lLG$...
    > > > > > Found it, the method name is case sensitive, it should have been:
    > > > > > strServer=http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/Validate
    > > > > >
    > > > > > <onSoapBox>
    > > > > > Why oh why does MS insist on keeping case sensitivity around when

    it
    > > is
    > > > > > arcahic as PDP-8s. I would expect that when I am using VBScript to

    > > talk
    > > > to
    > > > > > VB.Net that it would be case insensitive. I know why it started,

    > > memory
    > > > > was
    > > > > > in bytes, programs were stored on paper tape. But it has been 25

    > > years,
    > > > > why
    > > > > > do we have to suffer with being human pre-compiliers. (sorry had

    to
    > > get
    > > > it
    > > > > > out)
    > > > > > </onSoapBox>
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Ken
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "Ken Pinard" <> wrote in message
    > > > > > news:...
    > > > > > > I am getting an internal error (500) when I call my web service

    > from
    > > > an
    > > > > > ASP
    > > > > > > script. If I put the http line into the browser it returns the

    > > correct
    > > > > > > result. Below is the code I am using.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Please help,
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Ken
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > strServer = http://localhost/pinrod/interface.asmx/validate
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > set httpobj = CreateObject("MSXML2.XMLHTTP")
    > > > > > > httpobj.open "POST", strServer, false
    > > > > > > httpobj.send() 'result
    > > > > > > result = result & "after send: " & now & "<br>"
    > > > > > > result = result & "status value: " & httpobj.status & "<br>"
    > > > > > > result = result & "status text: " & httpobj.statustext &

    "<br>"
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > The definition of the web service is as follows:
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > <WebMethod()> _
    > > > > > > Public Function ValidateOrder() As String
    > > > > > > ' Dim req As HttpRequest
    > > > > > > Dim result As String = "<p>start validate order </p>"
    > > > > > > Return result
    > > > > > > End Function
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > >

    > >
    > >

    >
    >
    Jan Tielens, Dec 27, 2003
    #7
  8. Ken Pinard

    Ken Pinard Guest

    Yes,
    I miss the generics. We had a bunch of them for Ada. It really does
    allow for the creation of type safe functions. A heck of alot easier than
    trying to do it with interfaces and inheritance. It can be accomplished but
    a lot of work. This will be faster and more people will use it.

    Ken

    "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    news:OSxb6%...
    > Yes indeed, generics is comming in the next version of .NET! For more

    info,
    > check out this article:
    >

    http://www.microsoft.com/belux/nl/msdn/community/columns/wuyttersprot/generics.mspx
    >
    > --
    > Greetz,
    > Jan
    > __________________________________
    > Read my weblog: http://weblogs.asp.net/jan
    > "Ken Pinard" <> schreef in bericht
    > news:...
    > > Yes that would be nice, but not an option. Even as a programmer I still

    > have
    > > a manager. And being a manager does not mean that all decisions are the
    > > best. So I live with what I have to do.
    > >
    > > Which still does not give an excuse for doing things the hard way.
    > > Especially since case insensititive compilers have been around since

    about
    > > 1959 (ALGOL).
    > >
    > > For several years I had the good fortune to work in a language called

    Ada.
    > > While most people groan at that name. I found it very easy to work in,

    it
    > > took care of so many issues at compile time. It was very quick to

    develop
    > > code in. Many people said it was not truely object oriented and that is

    > why
    > > it is not used. But I see all of the Ada capabilities except for one in

    > Dot
    > > Net. That last one is Generics and rumor has it coming in the next full
    > > release.
    > >
    > > Happy programming
    > >
    > > Ken
    > > "Jan Tielens" <> wrote in message
    > > news:u%...
    Ken Pinard, Dec 27, 2003
    #8
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