PROBLEM WITH FRAMES

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Racket, May 1, 2004.

  1. Racket

    Racket Guest

    Yep, I know frames are a problem.
    Probably should be a law against 'em.

    Still, if you know your frames stuff and can help, I will thank you big
    time.

    PLEASE, if you are unable or unenclined to help, please resist the
    temptation to join the string to lecture or evangelise on the evils of
    frames. Genuine, non judgemental help is all I need and will be sincerely
    appreciated.

    Built a page with left and top frame for nav bar and body frame etc. When
    viewed in IE6, if
    the left bar ( favorites or hisory etc) is open, only the left frame ( nav
    bar) shows up!
    Move the side bar to the left or remove it and the body page and top frame
    returns.

    Anyone know how to fix this?
    This is for a major client with an established site. Dumping the frames at
    this point is not an option.
    Many thanks to all.

    A is a good set.(below)
    B is the problem set

    ( In the problem set, the "right_blank" was to get the scroll bar to be at
    the right of the BODY "page" - which doesn't take up all of the screen left
    to right - rather than over on the right hand edge of the SCREEN on it's
    own. This is the possble cause of my problem, but it would be good to know I
    could get the scroll bar away from the edge of the screen without causing
    this problem

    [A] GOOD FRAMESET
    ..
    <FRAMESET rows="419*" cols="82,858*" frameborder="NO" border="0"
    framespacing="0">
    <FRAME name="leftFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize
    src="../frame_pages/m_range_left.htm" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    <FRAMESET rows="149,*" frameborder="NO" border="0" framespacing="0"
    cols="*">
    <FRAME name="topFrame" noresize scrolling="NO" marginwidth="0"
    marginheight="0" src="../frame_pages/m_range_top.htm">
    <FRAME name="mainFrame" src="../frame_pages/m_range_body.htm"
    marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="YES">
    </FRAMESET>
    </FRAMESET>
    ..
    ..
    NOT SO GOOD SET
    ..
    <FRAMESET rows="419*" cols="82,668*,97" frameborder="NO" border="0"
    framespacing="0">
    <FRAME name="leftFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize
    src="../frame_pages/summary_left.htm" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    <FRAMESET rows="187,*" frameborder="NO" border="0" framespacing="0"
    cols="*">
    <FRAME name="topFrame" noresize scrolling="NO"
    src="../frame_pages/summary_top.htm" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    <FRAME name="mainFrame" src="../frame_pages/summary_body.htm"
    marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="YES">
    </FRAMESET>
    <FRAME src="../frame_pages/summary_right_blank.htm">
    </FRAMESET>
    Racket, May 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. Racket

    Mitja Guest

    Racket <>
    (news:409312a7$0$6018$) wrote:
    > Yep, I know frames are a problem.
    > Probably should be a law against 'em.
    >
    > Still, if you know your frames stuff and can help, I will thank you
    > big time.
    >
    > PLEASE, if you are unable or unenclined to help, please resist the
    > temptation to join the string to lecture or evangelise on the evils of
    > frames. Genuine, non judgemental help is all I need and will be
    > sincerely appreciated.
    >
    > Built a page with left and top frame for nav bar and body frame etc.
    > When viewed in IE6, if
    > the left bar ( favorites or hisory etc) is open, only the left frame
    > ( nav bar) shows up!
    > Move the side bar to the left or remove it and the body page and top
    > frame returns.
    >
    > Anyone know how to fix this?
    > This is for a major client with an established site. Dumping the
    > frames at this point is not an option.
    > Many thanks to all.
    >
    > A is a good set.(below)
    > B is the problem set
    >
    > ( In the problem set, the "right_blank" was to get the scroll bar to
    > be at the right of the BODY "page" - which doesn't take up all of the
    > screen left to right - rather than over on the right hand edge of
    > the SCREEN on it's own. This is the possble cause of my problem, but
    > it would be good to know I could get the scroll bar away from the
    > edge of the screen without causing this problem
    >
    > [A] GOOD FRAMESET
    > .
    > <FRAMESET rows="419*" cols="82,858*" frameborder="NO" border="0"
    > framespacing="0">
    > <FRAME name="leftFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize
    > src="../frame_pages/m_range_left.htm" marginwidth="0"
    > marginheight="0"> <FRAMESET rows="149,*" frameborder="NO"
    > border="0" framespacing="0" cols="*">
    > <FRAME name="topFrame" noresize scrolling="NO" marginwidth="0"
    > marginheight="0" src="../frame_pages/m_range_top.htm">
    > <FRAME name="mainFrame" src="../frame_pages/m_range_body.htm"
    > marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="YES">
    > </FRAMESET>
    > </FRAMESET>
    > .
    > .
    > NOT SO GOOD SET
    > .
    > <FRAMESET rows="419*" cols="82,668*,97" frameborder="NO" border="0"
    > framespacing="0">
    > <FRAME name="leftFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize
    > src="../frame_pages/summary_left.htm" marginwidth="0"
    > marginheight="0"> <FRAMESET rows="187,*" frameborder="NO"
    > border="0" framespacing="0" cols="*">
    > <FRAME name="topFrame" noresize scrolling="NO"
    > src="../frame_pages/summary_top.htm" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    > <FRAME name="mainFrame" src="../frame_pages/summary_body.htm"
    > marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="YES">
    > </FRAMESET>
    > <FRAME src="../frame_pages/summary_right_blank.htm">
    > </FRAMESET>


    BOTH framesets are, at best, weird. Have a look in the specs at what "668*"
    and similar actually means. For your purpose, "*" will be sufficient and, at
    least with IE6, won't cause trouble.

    Please don't write all-caps subjects.
    Mitja, May 1, 2004
    #2
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  3. Racket

    Els Guest

    Racket wrote:

    > Yep, I know frames are a problem.
    > Probably should be a law against 'em.


    Don't forget that! :)

    > Built a page with left and top frame for nav bar and body frame etc. When
    > viewed in IE6, if
    > the left bar ( favorites or hisory etc) is open, only the left frame ( nav
    > bar) shows up!


    Here, only the middle frame disappears, both left and right
    frame stay. Right frame gets really wide though.
    (pasted your code in an empty file, didn't add anything, no
    <html>, no <body>, nothing)

    > Move the side bar to the left or remove it and the body page and top frame
    > returns.


    This has nothing to do with the favorites or history bar.
    Has to do with the width of the window, which obviously gets
    smaller when you open the left bar.
    Try it. Narrow your window, same effect, right?

    > Anyone know how to fix this?


    My guess is that cols="82,668*,97" means something like
    left: 82, right: 97 and the middle: 668 or greater?
    Means when your window gets narrower than 82+97+668=847
    wide, there's no room for the middle frame anymore.

    > A is a good set.(below)
    > B is the problem set
    >
    > ( In the problem set, the "right_blank" was to get the scroll bar to be at
    > the right of the BODY "page" - which doesn't take up all of the screen left
    > to right - rather than over on the right hand edge of the SCREEN on it's
    > own. This is the possble cause of my problem, but it would be good to know I
    > could get the scroll bar away from the edge of the screen without causing
    > this problem


    I read this more than once, but I don't see what your
    intention was with the right_blank. You wanted a scrollbar
    to the right of the BODY "page" -- What is the BODY "page"?
    rather than over on the right hand edge of the SCREEN --
    You'll never get a scrollbar on the screen. You mean the
    window, probably. Still, I don't understand what you want.

    > [A] GOOD FRAMESET
    > .
    > <FRAMESET rows="419*" cols="82,858*" frameborder="NO" border="0"
    > framespacing="0">
    > <FRAME name="leftFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize
    > src="../frame_pages/m_range_left.htm" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    > <FRAMESET rows="149,*" frameborder="NO" border="0" framespacing="0"
    > cols="*">
    > <FRAME name="topFrame" noresize scrolling="NO" marginwidth="0"
    > marginheight="0" src="../frame_pages/m_range_top.htm">
    > <FRAME name="mainFrame" src="../frame_pages/m_range_body.htm"
    > marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="YES">
    > </FRAMESET>
    > </FRAMESET>
    > .
    > .
    > NOT SO GOOD SET
    > .
    > <FRAMESET rows="419*" cols="82,668*,97" frameborder="NO" border="0"
    > framespacing="0">
    > <FRAME name="leftFrame" scrolling="NO" noresize
    > src="../frame_pages/summary_left.htm" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    > <FRAMESET rows="187,*" frameborder="NO" border="0" framespacing="0"
    > cols="*">
    > <FRAME name="topFrame" noresize scrolling="NO"
    > src="../frame_pages/summary_top.htm" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0">
    > <FRAME name="mainFrame" src="../frame_pages/summary_body.htm"
    > marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="YES">
    > </FRAMESET>
    > <FRAME src="../frame_pages/summary_right_blank.htm">
    > </FRAMESET>


    I personally never have seen both rows and cols defined in
    the same frameset at once. Also, 419* should read 419, * -
    if that's what you want, two rows, first one 419 high,
    second one takes up the rest. But i think you just meant *,
    as in total height.

    In that case, I would have written frameset A like this:
    <frameset cols="82,*">
    <frame>
    <frameset rows="187, *">
    <frame>
    <frame>
    </frameset>
    </frameset>

    and frameset B like this:
    <frameset cols="82, *, 97">
    <frame>
    <frameset rows="187, *">
    <frame>
    <frame>
    <frame>
    </frameset>
    </frameset>

    Of course you add your lack of margin widths and heights,
    framespacings, borders etc.
    I would make all the scrolling="no" into "auto", as
    otherwise, visitors with smaller windows or larger font-size
    may not be able to read all that's in your left or right
    columns.
    Frameborder="no" should be frameborder="0".
    Yes and no are only supported by Netscape, while all the
    browsers support the values 1 and 0.

    May I suggest frameset C, just in case you want the header
    to be 3 columns wide?
    <frameset rows="187, *">
    <frame>
    <frameset cols="82, *, 97">
    <frame>
    <frame>
    </frameset>
    </frameset>


    --
    Els
    http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, May 1, 2004
    #3
  4. Racket

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <409312a7$0$6018$>,
    says...
    > Yep, I know frames are a problem.
    > Probably should be a law against 'em.


    You also know, that prefacing your question about frames with this, will
    not stop the flood of anti frame replies..


    > Still, if you know your frames stuff and can help, I will thank you big
    > time.


    > PLEASE, if you are unable or unenclined to help....


    That is where you are wrong, they ARE helping. What they are telling
    you is what they truly believe is the correct answer about frames, and
    about 90% of the time they are right.

    > please resist the
    > temptation to join the string to lecture or evangelise on the evils of
    > frames.....


    Too late...

    > Built a page with left and top frame for nav bar and body frame etc. When
    > viewed in IE6, if
    > the left bar ( favorites or hisory etc) is open, only the left frame ( nav
    > bar) shows up!
    > Move the side bar to the left or remove it and the body page and top frame
    > returns.
    > Anyone know how to fix this?


    It sounds like a bug in IE. Doe sit happen if you already have the
    sidebar open BEFORE you navigate to the site? Or only when you open it
    when you are already at the site? How about a URL, showing the page (if
    not the "real" page, at least a test page that has the issue.

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, May 1, 2004
    #4
  5. Racket

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle Els scribbled in the mud:

    > Don't forget that! :)


    forget what?

    --
    Duende
    Duende, May 1, 2004
    #5
  6. Edwin van der Vaart, May 1, 2004
    #6
  7. Racket

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:

    > Duende wrote:
    >
    >> While sitting in a puddle Els scribbled in the mud:
    >>
    >>
    >>>Don't forget that! :)

    >>
    >>
    >> forget what?

    >
    > That frames are a problem.


    Frames are your friends.

    --
    Duende
    Duende, May 1, 2004
    #7
  8. Racket

    Els Guest

    Duende wrote:

    > While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:
    >
    >>Duende wrote:
    >>
    >>>While sitting in a puddle Els scribbled in the mud:
    >>>
    >>>>Don't forget that! :)
    >>>
    >>>forget what?

    >>
    >>That frames are a problem.

    >
    > Frames are your friends.


    Looks like he forgot, Edwin.. :-(

    --
    Els
    http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, May 1, 2004
    #8
  9. Edwin van der Vaart, May 1, 2004
    #9
  10. Racket

    Els Guest

    Edwin van der Vaart wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >
    >> Looks like he forgot, Edwin.. :-(

    >
    > I know how how's writting O:)


    Sorry, English speakers, just a short Dutch interception:
    als daar niet minimaal twee spelfouten en één woord teveel
    in zitten, Edwin, mag ik dan ff een nederlandse vertaling? ;-)

    --
    Els
    http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, May 1, 2004
    #10
  11. Racket

    Els Guest

    Edwin van der Vaart wrote:

    > Els wrote:
    >
    >> Edwin van der Vaart wrote:
    >>
    >>> Els wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Looks like he forgot, Edwin.. :-(
    >>>
    >>> I know how how's writting O:)

    >>
    >> Sorry, English speakers, just a short Dutch interception: als daar
    >> niet minimaal twee spelfouten en één woord teveel in zitten, Edwin,
    >> mag ik dan ff een nederlandse vertaling? ;-)

    >
    > Oops.
    > I meant. I know how's writing.
    >
    > Dutch interception.
    > Ik weet wie het schrijft. Eigenlijk is het: Ik weet wie het zegt.
    >
    > My cat was standing in the way.


    So you meant who, not how, as well? :-D
    (persistant cat, you have ;-))

    --
    Els
    http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, May 1, 2004
    #11
  12. Els wrote:

    > Edwin van der Vaart wrote:
    >
    >> Els wrote:
    >>
    >>> Looks like he forgot, Edwin.. :-(

    >>
    >>
    >> I know how how's writting O:)

    >
    >
    > Sorry, English speakers, just a short Dutch interception: als daar niet
    > minimaal twee spelfouten en één woord teveel in zitten, Edwin, mag ik
    > dan ff een nederlandse vertaling? ;-)


    Oops.
    I meant. I know how's writing.

    Dutch interception.
    Ik weet wie het schrijft. Eigenlijk is het: Ik weet wie het zegt.

    My cat was standing in the way.
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    Edwin van der Vaart, May 1, 2004
    #12
  13. Edwin van der Vaart, May 1, 2004
    #13
  14. Racket

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:

    >> (persistant cat, you have ;-))

    >
    > You can say that again :eek:)


    (persistant cat, you have ;-))


    --
    Duende
    Duende, May 1, 2004
    #14
  15. Racket

    Els Guest

    Duende wrote:

    > While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:
    >
    >>>(persistant cat, you have ;-))

    >>
    >>You can say that again :eek:)

    >
    > (persistant cat, you have ;-))


    :-D

    --
    Els
    http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Els, May 1, 2004
    #15
  16. Duende wrote:

    > While sitting in a puddle Edwin van der Vaart scribbled in the mud:
    >
    >
    >>>(persistant cat, you have ;-))

    >>
    >>You can say that again :eek:)

    >
    >
    > (persistant cat, you have ;-))


    rofl
    --
    Edwin van der Vaart
    http://www.semi-conductor.nl/ Links to Semiconductors sites
    http://www.evandervaart.nl/ Under construction
    Edwin van der Vaart, May 1, 2004
    #16
  17. Racket

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Sat, 1 May 2004 13:00:00 +1000, "Racket" <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > Yep, I know frames are a problem.
    > Probably should be a law against 'em.


    Indeed, but then...

    > Built a page with left and top frame for nav bar and body frame etc.


    If you know they are such a problem, why use them in the first place?
    Methinks I smell a troll.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    Mark Parnell, May 3, 2004
    #17
  18. Racket

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <18io5bijfz1lf$.btroxpmpzu5v$>,
    says...
    > > Yep, I know frames are a problem.
    > > Probably should be a law against 'em.

    > Indeed, but then...
    > > Built a page with left and top frame for nav bar and body frame etc.

    > If you know they are such a problem, why use them in the first place?
    > Methinks I smell a troll.



    I think you just see someone that has a frame questions and is worried
    about getting belittled by the anti-frame crowd.
    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
    Whitecrest, May 3, 2004
    #18
  19. Racket

    Duende Guest

    While sitting in a puddle Mark Parnell scribbled in the mud:

    > Methinks I smell a troll.


    Frames are your friends. <BFG>

    --
    Duende
    Duende, May 3, 2004
    #19
  20. Racket

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On 2 May 2004 23:51:00 GMT, Duende <> declared in
    alt.html:

    > Frames are your friends. <BFG>


    Maybe it was just you I could smell. ;-)

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    Mark Parnell, May 3, 2004
    #20
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