Problem with sound

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Darko Ercegovic, Jul 10, 2011.

  1. Hi,

    I made my web site and put background music there. It woks nice when I
    enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    from any other computer.

    Can you tell me what I did wrong?

    <embed height="0" width="2"
    src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    loop="1" volume="80">
    Darko Ercegovic, Jul 10, 2011
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Darko Ercegovic wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I made my web site and put background music there. It woks nice when I
    > enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    > from any other computer.
    >
    > Can you tell me what I did wrong?
    >
    > <embed height="0" width="2"
    > src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    > loop="1" volume="80">



    A few of countless examples

    <http://www.cikmarketing.ca/all_blog_posts/why-background-music-makes-your-website-suck/>

    <http://doodlekit.com/blog/entry/37742/why-you-should-avoid-background-music-on-your-website>

    <http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-to-convince-a-client-their-site-doesnt-need-music>




    --
    Take care,

    Jonathan
    -------------------
    LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
    http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com
    Jonathan N. Little, Jul 10, 2011
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Darko Ercegovic

    dorayme Guest

    In article <ivd9cf$371$>,
    Darko Ercegovic <> wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > I made my web site and put background music there. It woks nice when I
    > enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    > from any other computer.
    >
    > Can you tell me what I did wrong?
    >
    > <embed height="0" width="2"
    > src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    > loop="1" volume="80">


    Instead, put the following link:

    http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/

    with a *prominent* note saying to open it in a new tab and to
    select a tune and keep the tab in the browser while you browse
    other tabs. Add for the sophisticated background music listener
    that if he or she opens as many tabs as there are midi tunes in
    your collection, he or she can have them all playing at once in
    the background.

    Consider adding various other midi tunes so that folk can compose
    their own eclectic choruses.

    Most films and documentaries have some some idiot lay down
    totally inappropriate music to blare or tinkle in the background,
    inappropriate mostly because no music is the most appropriate of
    all. It happens with otherwise good films and documentaries.

    Latest for me was the Australian national broadcaster's doco on
    refugee boats. One of the saddest (because potentially so good)
    from a while ago was Ken Burns's series on the American Civil
    War. Ruined by the idiot let loose from the music department.

    As for movies, don't get me going. There was a terrific battle at
    the beginning of Gladiator with tons of super loud bangs and
    whirrings and other sounds of battle. But no, this was not enough
    for the idiot director or the music director. There had to be
    some idiot loud music to compete with the rest!

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 11, 2011
    #3
  4. 2011-07-11 1:33, Darko Ercegovic wrote:

    > I made my web site and put background music there.


    Others have explained why it's probably a bad idea, so I can focus on
    technicalities.

    > It woks nice when I
    > enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    > from any other computer.


    We can't test this on any computer, because you did not post a URL.

    > Can you tell me what I did wrong?


    Maybe if you post a URL.

    > <embed height="0" width="2"
    > src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    > loop="1" volume="80">


    That won't work anywhere, because there is no resource matching the URL
    http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid
    (the server responds with 404 Not Found).

    When I used my magical powers to find out URLs of recordings that you
    have actually used, I found no problem in making them work on a web page
    using the correct URLs.

    If _some_ of the MIDIs don't work, maybe there's some data error in
    them. Then you could contact the producers, which you must know,
    directly or indirectly, as you have got the permissions from the
    copyright owners to use their music. (Haven't you?)

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 11, 2011
    #4
  5. Hi Jukka, :)

    Let try to answer your dillemas:

    On 11.7.2011. 6:57, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > 2011-07-11 1:33, Darko Ercegovic wrote:
    >
    >> I made my web site and put background music there.

    >
    > Others have explained why it's probably a bad idea, so I can focus on
    > technicalities.


    I have had idea that some people don't like background music. As far as
    I have not enough knowledge to do this in an ordinary way I made two
    paralel sites: one with music and another without and when someone want
    to disable sound he/she is just put on the "muste" site. It is pretty
    invisible to average visitor.

    >> It woks nice when I
    >> enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    >> from any other computer.

    >
    > We can't test this on any computer, because you did not post a URL.


    site URL is www.omega3zona.hr and all linked pages (if you don't press
    mute icon).

    >> Can you tell me what I did wrong?

    >
    > Maybe if you post a URL.
    >
    >> <embed height="0" width="2"
    >> src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    >> loop="1" volume="80">

    >
    > That won't work anywhere, because there is no resource matching the URL
    > http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid
    > (the server responds with 404 Not Found).


    file name is yesterday.mid so really is programed is:

    <embed height="0" width="2"
    src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/yesterday.mid" autostart="true"
    loop="1" volume="80">

    > When I used my magical powers to find out URLs of recordings that you
    > have actually used, I found no problem in making them work on a web page
    > using the correct URLs.


    http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/yesterday.mid

    > If _some_ of the MIDIs don't work, maybe there's some data error in
    > them. Then you could contact the producers, which you must know,
    > directly or indirectly, as you have got the permissions from the
    > copyright owners to use their music. (Haven't you?)


    I have no idea? I didn't ask for permision.
    Darko Ercegovic, Jul 11, 2011
    #5
  6. Hi Dorayme,

    Thank you for your answer. I agree with you. As I have replied to Jukka,
    I gave an option to disable sound:

    "I have had idea that some people don't like background music. As far as
    I have not enough knowledge to do this in an ordinary way I made two
    parallel sites: one with music and another without. When someone want
    to disable sound and press mute icon, he/she is just redirected to the
    same page on the "mute" site. It is pretty invisible to average visitor."

    I don't insist to have this music in the background but I am curious
    what I did wrong.

    Regards

    Darko



    On 11.7.2011. 2:04, dorayme wrote:
    > In article <ivd9cf$371$>,
    > Darko Ercegovic <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I made my web site and put background music there. It woks nice when I
    >> enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    >> from any other computer.
    >>
    >> Can you tell me what I did wrong?
    >>
    >> <embed height="0" width="2"
    >> src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    >> loop="1" volume="80">

    >
    > Instead, put the following link:
    >
    > http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/
    >
    > with a *prominent* note saying to open it in a new tab and to
    > select a tune and keep the tab in the browser while you browse
    > other tabs. Add for the sophisticated background music listener
    > that if he or she opens as many tabs as there are midi tunes in
    > your collection, he or she can have them all playing at once in
    > the background.
    >
    > Consider adding various other midi tunes so that folk can compose
    > their own eclectic choruses.
    >
    > Most films and documentaries have some some idiot lay down
    > totally inappropriate music to blare or tinkle in the background,
    > inappropriate mostly because no music is the most appropriate of
    > all. It happens with otherwise good films and documentaries.
    >
    > Latest for me was the Australian national broadcaster's doco on
    > refugee boats. One of the saddest (because potentially so good)
    > from a while ago was Ken Burns's series on the American Civil
    > War. Ruined by the idiot let loose from the music department.
    >
    > As for movies, don't get me going. There was a terrific battle at
    > the beginning of Gladiator with tons of super loud bangs and
    > whirrings and other sounds of battle. But no, this was not enough
    > for the idiot director or the music director. There had to be
    > some idiot loud music to compete with the rest!
    >
    Darko Ercegovic, Jul 11, 2011
    #6
  7. OK, I can put an option to start music manually if someone wants to
    listen, not to be started by default. Probably it will be better idea.
    But, as I already mentioned here, it is not the main problem for me. The
    problem is why it doesn't work.

    Darko

    On 11.7.2011. 0:57, Jonathan N. Little wrote:
    > Darko Ercegovic wrote:
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> I made my web site and put background music there. It woks nice when I
    >> enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    >> from any other computer.
    >>
    >> Can you tell me what I did wrong?
    >>
    >> <embed height="0" width="2"
    >> src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    >> loop="1" volume="80">

    >
    >
    > A few of countless examples
    >
    > <http://www.cikmarketing.ca/all_blog_posts/why-background-music-makes-your-website-suck/>
    >
    >
    > <http://doodlekit.com/blog/entry/37742/why-you-should-avoid-background-music-on-your-website>
    >
    >
    > <http://www.seomoz.org/blog/how-to-convince-a-client-their-site-doesnt-need-music>
    Darko Ercegovic, Jul 11, 2011
    #7
  8. 2011-07-11 13:43, Darko Ercegovic wrote:

    > Let try to answer your dillemas:


    I don't think it's me who has dilemmas here.

    >> Others have explained why it's probably a bad idea, so I can focus on
    >> technicalities.

    >
    > I have had idea that some people don't like background music.


    Are you saying that you didn't read the helpful explanations? OK, here's
    a short version, a personal one in order to be concrete. When I play
    bridge on the net, I usually don't bother listening the optional flips
    of cards or the music offered by the BBO server. Rather, I listen to
    music on my computer, or sometimes online radio, or I keep the door open
    and listen to birds when available. Now would you expect me to want to
    music of _your_ taste jump into my ears when I, sitting as a dummy or
    waiting for the next game to start, surf around web pages? If the answer
    is not crystal clear, think about sitting in a concert and getting
    disturbed by some sudden noise, with the excuse that I can switch it off
    (if I guess correctly how to do that).

    > As far as
    > I have not enough knowledge to do this in an ordinary way I made two
    > paralel sites: one with music and another without


    It might be interesting to measure their relative popularity, e.g. using
    normal A/B testing.

    > and when someone want
    > to disable sound he/she is just put on the "muste" site.


    It's easier to click on the "Back" button of the browser.

    > site URL is www.omega3zona.hr and all linked pages (if you don't press
    > mute icon).


    So what _is_ the problem? The page opens with music starting (after a
    short delay), both on Firefox and on IE. Did you perhaps test with
    computers with sounds muted?

    >> If _some_ of the MIDIs don't work, maybe there's some data error in
    >> them. Then you could contact the producers, which you must know,
    >> directly or indirectly, as you have got the permissions from the
    >> copyright owners to use their music. (Haven't you?)

    >
    > I have no idea? I didn't ask for permision.


    Then you should immediately take the music away. If you are lucky, the
    search engines of music companies have not yet detected your crime.

    To put music on a web page, you need permissions from all people who
    made a creative contribution to the music or played it and from the
    companies that recorded it. Normally the music company, or a national
    organization of copyright holders, is capable of granting you the
    rights, as they have got the rights from the authors. But they will
    hardly do that without getting some money from you.

    And remember that just because someone uploaded some music onto Youtube
    doesn't make it legal, and it doesn't make it legal to you to put that
    music on your web page.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 11, 2011
    #8
  9. On 11.7.2011. 13:24, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:
    > 2011-07-11 13:43, Darko Ercegovic wrote:
    >
    >> Let try to answer your dillemas:

    >
    > I don't think it's me who has dilemmas here.
    >
    >>> Others have explained why it's probably a bad idea, so I can focus on
    >>> technicalities.

    >>
    >> I have had idea that some people don't like background music.

    >
    > Are you saying that you didn't read the helpful explanations? OK, here's
    > a short version, a personal one in order to be concrete. When I play
    > bridge on the net, I usually don't bother listening the optional flips
    > of cards or the music offered by the BBO server. Rather, I listen to
    > music on my computer, or sometimes online radio, or I keep the door open
    > and listen to birds when available. Now would you expect me to want to
    > music of _your_ taste jump into my ears when I, sitting as a dummy or
    > waiting for the next game to start, surf around web pages? If the answer
    > is not crystal clear, think about sitting in a concert and getting
    > disturbed by some sudden noise, with the excuse that I can switch it off
    > (if I guess correctly how to do that).

    Look, you are right about cases you were mentioned. But if you have in
    your mind that my web site is dedicated to people who have cancer and
    that there are lot of information about what person can do when he/she
    has some form of this disease then, I believe, he/she will carefully
    read what is written on the site, or will not read it at all. So, this
    web site is not for the person who is looking for a fun. On the other
    hand when someone is deadly ill it can be helpful to listen some nice
    music themes, just to help become more calm. That is how I look at this
    situation.

    >> As far as
    >> I have not enough knowledge to do this in an ordinary way I made two
    >> paralel sites: one with music and another without

    >
    > It might be interesting to measure their relative popularity, e.g. using
    > normal A/B testing.


    I agree.

    >> and when someone want
    >> to disable sound he/she is just put on the "muste" site.

    >
    > It's easier to click on the "Back" button of the browser.
    >
    >> site URL is www.omega3zona.hr and all linked pages (if you don't press
    >> mute icon).

    >
    > So what _is_ the problem? The page opens with music starting (after a
    > short delay), both on Firefox and on IE. Did you perhaps test with
    > computers with sounds muted?



    I tried to reach my web site from my own computer and it worked
    correctly every time it tried. But when I asked my friend to see my web
    from his home, he told me that he didn't hear anything. After that I
    checked my web site from few other computers and no one played music.

    >>> If _some_ of the MIDIs don't work, maybe there's some data error in
    >>> them. Then you could contact the producers, which you must know,
    >>> directly or indirectly, as you have got the permissions from the
    >>> copyright owners to use their music. (Haven't you?)

    >>
    >> I have no idea? I didn't ask for permision.

    >
    > Then you should immediately take the music away. If you are lucky, the
    > search engines of music companies have not yet detected your crime.
    >
    > To put music on a web page, you need permissions from all people who
    > made a creative contribution to the music or played it and from the
    > companies that recorded it. Normally the music company, or a national
    > organization of copyright holders, is capable of granting you the
    > rights, as they have got the rights from the authors. But they will
    > hardly do that without getting some money from you.
    >
    > And remember that just because someone uploaded some music onto Youtube
    > doesn't make it legal, and it doesn't make it legal to you to put that
    > music on your web page.


    Thanks for your warning.
    Darko Ercegovic, Jul 11, 2011
    #9
  10. On 11.7.2011. 17:45, Darko Ercegovic wrote:
    > On 11.7.2011. 13:24, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:


    >> To put music on a web page, you need permissions from all people who
    >> made a creative contribution to the music or played it and from the
    >> companies that recorded it. Normally the music company, or a national
    >> organization of copyright holders, is capable of granting you the
    >> rights, as they have got the rights from the authors. But they will
    >> hardly do that without getting some money from you.
    >>
    >> And remember that just because someone uploaded some music onto Youtube
    >> doesn't make it legal, and it doesn't make it legal to you to put that
    >> music on your web page.

    >
    > Thanks for your warning.


    I have picked midi files for my web site from:

    http://www.electrofresh.com/

    Do you still think I must erase music from my web site?
    Darko Ercegovic, Jul 11, 2011
    #10
  11. 2011-07-11 19:15, Darko Ercegovic wrote:

    > I have picked midi files for my web site from:
    >
    > http://www.electrofresh.com/
    >
    > Do you still think I must erase music from my web site?


    Of course. I could declare all your property free, but do you think that
    would give anyone the right to take anything he likes from you?

    The lack of "About us" and "Credits" and "Licensing" is ominous.

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 11, 2011
    #11
  12. 2011-07-11 18:45, Darko Ercegovic wrote:

    > Look, you are right about cases you were mentioned. But if you have in
    > your mind that my web site is dedicated to people who have cancer


    I don't see how that changes anything regarding background sounds on web
    pages.

    > when someone is deadly ill it can be helpful to listen some nice
    > music themes, just to help become more calm.


    Or make him angry, or frustrated, or sad. It's better to let each person
    decide what music he wishes to listen to.

    Background music may make sense when it has an essential connection with
    the (other) content on the page. If your page were about the French
    revolution, you might consider playing the Marseillaise - though even
    this isn't clear-cut (and might be historically wrong e.g. if the page
    actually discusses the early phases of the revolution).

    >> So what _is_ the problem? The page opens with music starting (after a
    >> short delay), both on Firefox and on IE. Did you perhaps test with
    >> computers with sounds muted?

    >
    > I tried to reach my web site from my own computer and it worked
    > correctly every time it tried. But when I asked my friend to see my web
    > from his home, he told me that he didn't hear anything. After that I
    > checked my web site from few other computers and no one played music.


    Without more information, it is impossible to say what the problem might
    be. The <embed> tag, though "nonstandard" (except as being standardized
    in the HTML5 drafts) is probably the safest way of embedding sound on a
    web page. But maybe you can check whether the computers tested play
    sounds _at all_ (e.g., by visiting YouTube on them).

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jul 11, 2011
    #12
  13. Darko Ercegovic

    Doug Miller Guest

    In article <ivf5r5$e7k$>, Darko Ercegovic <> wrote:

    >Look, you are right about cases you were mentioned. But if you have in
    >your mind that my web site is dedicated to people who have cancer and
    >that there are lot of information about what person can do when he/she
    >has some form of this disease then, I believe, he/she will carefully
    >read what is written on the site, or will not read it at all. So, this
    >web site is not for the person who is looking for a fun. On the other
    >hand when someone is deadly ill it can be helpful to listen some nice
    >music themes, just to help become more calm. That is how I look at this
    >situation.


    You still don't understand. It doesn't matter *what* the purpose of your web
    site is -- if I want to listen to "some nice music themes ... to help become
    more calm" then I will *already* be listening to soothing music of *my*
    choice. Not *your* choice.
    Doug Miller, Jul 11, 2011
    #13
  14. On Mon, 11 Jul 2011 00:33:37 +0200, Darko Ercegovic wrote:
    >
    > I made my web site and put background music there. It woks nice when I
    > enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    > from any other computer.
    >
    > Can you tell me what I did wrong?


    You've done nothing wrong. That's JUST THE WAY I want it!
    Allodoxaphobia, Jul 11, 2011
    #14
  15. Darko Ercegovic

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On Jul 10, 5:33 pm, Darko Ercegovic <> wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > I made my web site and put background music there. It woks nice when I
    > enter site from my own computer but there is no sound when it is opened
    > from any other computer.
    >
    > Can you tell me what I did wrong?
    >
    > <embed height="0" width="2"
    > src="http://www.omega3zona.hr/glazba/filename.mid" autostart="true"
    > loop="1" volume="80">


    It was easy enough to find where the midis are stored, and you have
    about 14 selections to substitute for "filename" in the url you gave.
    In fact all of my 8 browsers would play all of these midis by just
    going to the url, but in that case they opened in their own page
    rather than being embedded in another page. It requires some player
    that will play a midi or other desired format, and quite a few
    computers now come without a player that will handle midis installed.
    However many of these allow installing a codec to make midis or
    whatever is missing play. All of my browsers show a progress bar and
    allow you to turn the midi off, but Opera, for one, does not. I find
    that the browsers all have the QT Plug-in Version 7.6.9 installed for
    them, since I have the QT player installed on my computer along with
    several other players. Many browsers, especially Firefox and Opera,
    allow you to disable a selected plugin, or enable it. Apparently QT is
    very efficient in installing the plug-in for itself and will do so for
    most browsers if you download QT. My Vista 64-bit OS computer has a
    place where you can assign the primary player for various extensions
    such as .midi. However when I assign the WMP, which has a codec for
    playing midis, as primary for midis, they still play using the QT
    player. There may be a way to overcome this in some obscure QT menu.
    Most players other than QT that I have installed will respect your
    assignment of a primary player for a selected extension. So I would
    guess that others who do not hear your midis do not have a QT player
    installed or any other players that come with a codec to play midis,
    although many such players allow a codec to be installed.

    I really have little interest in midis anymore since most sound so
    mechanical to me and do not support vocals. They were very popular 10
    years and more ago because they required much less bandwidth than more
    realistic sounding formats. Then most had a slow dial-up connection.
    Also, when midis were very popular even on commercial web sites, there
    was a lawyer in California who searched for them on the web. If his
    research turned up that there were not rights paid for a midi, he
    would then contact the owner of the midi rights, and see if they
    wanted to get some money for the use of their midi. Of course the
    lawyer would get a nice profit for his service. But I have not heard
    of such problems in recent years, likely because midis are seldom used
    anymore by commercial sites, the owners of which might be milked for
    enough money to be worth the lawyer's time. The rights issue is very
    complex. In the US even a medium sized radio station may use a web
    streaming service to keep track of the number of hits for every song
    played and submit the totals and payments to a broadcast usage group
    that sends payments to the correct places. There are services that
    record covers of music and arrange for a single payment for unlimited
    or limited usage. You buy a CD of this music and can use it on
    websites, as spelled out in great detail. The cost may be very low to
    very high depending on how recent and popular the music is and how you
    intend to use it. If you want the latest and most popular song on your
    web site, and especially if you are a commercial company with much
    money, you need to get a good media lawyer that specializes in this.
    Else you may be sued by artists, recording companies, music
    publishers, and others for a very large amount. And you likely will
    have to hire a very expensive media lawyer to represent you in a
    federal court, often located in California.
    cwdjrxyz, Jul 12, 2011
    #15
  16. Darko Ercegovic

    dorayme Guest

    In article <iveldj$bb0$>,
    Darko Ercegovic <> wrote:

    > Hi Dorayme,
    >

    ....
    > I don't insist to have this music in the background but I am curious
    > what I did wrong.
    >


    Perhaps check out

    <http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/special/object.html>

    <http://webdesign.about.com/od/sound/ht/htsound.htm>

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Jul 12, 2011
    #16
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