Problems with frames...

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Konrad Hammerer, Aug 26, 2005.

  1. Hi!

    I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

    1) Top
    and Down and within Down,
    2) Left and
    3) Right


    Top
    -------------
    |
    Left | Right
    |
    |

    Now my question:
    In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I
    have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
    Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
    the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
    target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
    frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
    frame, because the navigation table may have changed!

    How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?

    Thanks,
    Konrad
     
    Konrad Hammerer, Aug 26, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Konrad Hammerer

    Arne Guest

    Once upon a time *Konrad Hammerer* wrote:

    > Hi!
    >
    > I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
    >
    > 1) Top
    > and Down and within Down,
    > 2) Left and
    > 3) Right
    >
    >
    > Top
    > -------------
    > |
    > Left | Right
    > |
    > |
    >
    > Now my question:
    > In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I
    > have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
    > Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
    > the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
    > target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
    > frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
    > frame, because the navigation table may have changed!
    >
    > How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?
    >


    If you really *must* use frames want to avoid Javascript (that's
    good!) the link to a new frameset that loads the new header, nav and
    content frames.

    --
    /Arne
    My "widget" site: http://hem.bredband.net/arnel/
    Top posters will be ignored. Quote the part you
    are replying to, and don't quote signatures!
     
    Arne, Aug 26, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Konrad Hammerer

    rf Guest

    Konrad Hammerer wrote:

    > I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:


    Why?

    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Aug 26, 2005
    #3
  4. >>I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
    >
    >
    > Why?


    I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do
    something like this, it would be very helpfull. I want to have a
    navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on top of the
    page which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar...

    Thanks,
    Konrad


    >
    > Cheers
    > Richard.
    >
    >
     
    Konrad Hammerer, Aug 26, 2005
    #4
  5. Konrad Hammerer wrote:
    >>> I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Why?

    >
    >
    > I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do
    > something like this, it would be very helpfull. I want to have a
    > navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on top of the page
    > which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar...
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Konrad
    >
    >
    >>
    >> Cheers
    >> Richard.
    >>
    >>

    How about using an inline frame?

    Do a google for iframes or inline frames.

    rOe
     
    roland.E.oderant, Aug 26, 2005
    #5
  6. roland.E.oderant wrote:

    >>>> I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:


    >> I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do


    > How about using an inline frame?


    All the problems of regular frames, but with worse browser support.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Aug 26, 2005
    #6
  7. Konrad Hammerer wrote:

    > I want to have a navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on
    > top of the page which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar.


    Why? The vast majority of sites don't do that and users manage to cope OK.
    The main effect that will have (*if* you implement frames well) would be to
    reduce the effective screen space the user has available for reading the
    actual content.

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Aug 26, 2005
    #7
  8. David Dorward wrote:
    > Konrad Hammerer wrote:
    >
    >> I want to have a navigation on the left side and a
    >> Header-Information on top of the page which stays there even if
    >> the user uses the scrollbar.

    >
    > Why? The vast majority of sites don't do that and users manage to
    > cope OK. The main effect that will have (*if* you implement frames
    > well) would be to reduce the effective screen space the user has
    > available for reading the actual content.


    Exactly. My browser normally has a usable 450-500 pixels of height for
    the content, on this 800x600px monitor. It is really annoying when
    some web developer thinks I need to stare at his/her huge site logo
    all the time I am trying to read the content in about a 250 pixel
    height area.

    Get over it. Your logo is not nearly as important as your content.

    And I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the bookmarking disaster,
    or the search engine problems, of a framed site.

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Aug 26, 2005
    #8
  9. Konrad Hammerer

    RodeL Guest

    "Konrad Hammerer" <> schreef in bericht
    news:...
    > Hi!
    >
    > I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
    >
    > 1) Top
    > and Down and within Down,
    > 2) Left and
    > 3) Right
    >
    >
    > Top
    > -------------
    > |
    > Left | Right
    > |
    > |
    >
    > Now my question:
    > In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I have
    > the content and in the top frame I have same kind of Header-Information
    > about the content frame. When I click on a link in the left frame, I know
    > how to change the right frame (with target="right"), but this is not
    > enough! I need to change also the top frame, because the Header-Info must
    > be updated and also the left frame, because the navigation table may have
    > changed!
    >
    > How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Konrad


    Ok, ok, better not use frames at all, I know.
    Is some older sites I used this in the leftframe (=navigationmenu)

    <a href="javascript:change('top.htm','right.htm','left.htm')">link</a>

    It changes three pages at once, using the same frameset.
    Be sure to change the frame where you put this link in as last one.
    You won't win any design-awards with it, but it works.

    Rodel
     
    RodeL, Aug 26, 2005
    #9
  10. Konrad Hammerer wrote :
    >
    > I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do
    > something like this, it would be very helpfull. I want to have a
    > navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on top of the page
    > which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar...
    >


    Simple 2 column CSS layout (tutorial)
    http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/csslayout/2-col/
    Final result:
    http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/csslayout/2-col/finished.html

    Once you've understood how to create such page, you can modify, adjust
    as you wish.

    CSS Page Layouts
    http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/page_layouts/index.cfm

    Here's another good tutorial on creating a multi-column webpage:
    3 Column Layout (with explanations)
    http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/3col

    Gérard
    --
    remove blah to email me
     
    =?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=E9rard_Talbot?=, Aug 26, 2005
    #10
  11. Konrad Hammerer

    dorayme Guest

    > From: Konrad Hammerer <>

    > I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
    >
    > 1) Top
    > and Down and within Down,
    > 2) Left and
    > 3) Right
    >
    >
    > Top
    > -------------
    > |
    > Left | Right
    > |
    > |
    >
    > Now my question:
    > In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I
    > have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
    > Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
    > the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
    > target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
    > frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
    > frame, because the navigation table may have changed!
    >
    > How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Konrad



    If ever there was a case for not using frames at all, this looks
    like it. You basically want everything to change when a link is
    clicked. So yes the solution is design the page without frames
    and design the page the link goes to however you want it (again,
    without frames).

    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Aug 27, 2005
    #11
  12. RodeL wrote:

    > <a href="javascript:change('top.htm','right.htm','left.htm')">link</a>
    > You won't win any design-awards with it, but it works.


    When Javascript is turned on (which it isn't for Googlebot).
    http://jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ4_24

    It also fails to work around the standard problems of using frames (e.g.
    link sharing, bookmarking, etc).


    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Aug 27, 2005
    #12
  13. Konrad Hammerer

    jake Guest

    In message <>, Konrad Hammerer
    <> writes
    >Hi!
    >
    >I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
    >
    >1) Top
    >and Down and within Down,
    >2) Left and
    >3) Right
    >
    >
    >Top
    >-------------
    > |
    >Left | Right
    > |
    > |
    >
    >Now my question:
    >In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I have
    >the content and in the top frame I have same kind of Header-Information
    >about the content frame. When I click on a link in the left frame, I
    >know how to change the right frame (with target="right"), but this is
    >not enough! I need to change also the top frame, because the
    >Header-Info must be updated and also the left frame, because the
    >navigation table may have changed!
    >
    >How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?
    >
    >Thanks,
    >Konrad


    No, not without javascript.

    The folks over on comp.lang.javascript will tell you how to do it.

    regards.

    --
    Jake
    ( .... just a spam trap.)
     
    jake, Aug 27, 2005
    #13
  14. Konrad Hammerer

    jake Guest

    In message <rdEPe.11242$>, rf
    <?@?.?.invalid> writes
    >Konrad Hammerer wrote:
    >
    >> I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

    >
    >Why?
    >
    >Cheers
    >Richard.
    >
    >

    Why not?

    --
    Jake
    ( .... just a spam trap.)
     
    jake, Aug 27, 2005
    #14
  15. Konrad Hammerer

    jake Guest

    In message <denamh$84l$2$>, David Dorward
    <> writes
    >roland.E.oderant wrote:
    >
    >>>>> I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

    >
    >>> I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do

    >
    >> How about using an inline frame?

    >
    >All the problems of regular frames, but with worse browser support.
    >

    Iframes work just fine in all modern browsers. Even some old Netscapes
    can handle them.

    What modern browsers do you know that don't support them?

    regards.
    --
    Jake
    ( .... just a spam trap.)
     
    jake, Aug 27, 2005
    #15
  16. Konrad Hammerer

    jake Guest

    In message <szHPe.35429$>, Beauregard T.
    Shagnasty <> writes
    >David Dorward wrote:
    >> Konrad Hammerer wrote:
    >>
    >>> I want to have a navigation on the left side and a
    >>> Header-Information on top of the page which stays there even if
    >>> the user uses the scrollbar.

    >> Why? The vast majority of sites don't do that and users manage to
    >> cope OK. The main effect that will have (*if* you implement frames
    >> well) would be to reduce the effective screen space the user has
    >> available for reading the actual content.

    >
    >Exactly. My browser normally has a usable 450-500 pixels of height for
    >the content, on this 800x600px monitor. It is really annoying when some
    >web developer thinks I need to stare at his/her huge site logo all the
    >time I am trying to read the content in about a 250 pixel height area.
    >
    >Get over it. Your logo is not nearly as important as your content.
    >
    >And I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the bookmarking disaster,


    Disaster? What disaster? No problems at all for the 90% of users who use
    IE; the other browser manufacturers haven't even considered this a
    feature worth implementing in their offerings (even in minority browsers
    you can usually book-mark the frame, if not the full context).

    >or the search engine problems,


    No SE problems for a well-written frames-based site.

    >of a framed site.
    >


    --
    Jake
    ( .... just a spam trap.)
     
    jake, Aug 27, 2005
    #16
  17. Konrad Hammerer

    jake Guest

    In message <BF35FDD8.163F4%>, dorayme
    <> writes
    >> From: Konrad Hammerer <>

    >
    >> I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
    >>
    >> 1) Top
    >> and Down and within Down,
    >> 2) Left and
    >> 3) Right
    >>
    >>
    >> Top
    >> -------------
    >> |
    >> Left | Right
    >> |
    >> |
    >>
    >> Now my question:
    >> In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I
    >> have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
    >> Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
    >> the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
    >> target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
    >> frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
    >> frame, because the navigation table may have changed!
    >>
    >> How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?
    >>
    >> Thanks,
    >> Konrad

    >
    >
    >If ever there was a case for not using frames at all, this looks
    >like it. You basically want everything to change when a link is
    >clicked.


    No. Just two frames out of three.

    >So yes the solution is design the page without frames
    >and design the page the link goes to however you want it (again,
    >without frames).
    >
    >dorayme
    >


    --
    Jake
    ( .... just a spam trap.)
     
    jake, Aug 27, 2005
    #17
  18. Konrad Hammerer wrote:

    > I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:


    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Problems_with_using_frames

    > In the left frame I have my Navigation Table,


    http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts

    > in the right frame I
    > have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
    > Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
    > the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
    > target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
    > frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
    > frame, because the navigation table may have changed!


    target="_top" (and build a new frameset document for each view).

    --
    David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/>
    Home is where the ~/.bashrc is
     
    David Dorward, Aug 27, 2005
    #18
  19. Konrad Hammerer

    rf Guest

    jake wrote:

    > >> I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

    > >
    > >Why?


    > Why not?


    <checks jake's posting history>

    You are new here (except for a brief visit at the beginning of this month).

    Lurk for a week or two and you just might find out the many things wrong
    with frames, the subject comes up every day or so. At the moment I can't be
    bothered to list the dozen or so extremely bad things about frames, apart
    from the fact that they are just a pain in the bloody arse.

    Check the archive.

    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Aug 27, 2005
    #19
  20. Konrad Hammerer

    Els Guest

    rf wrote:

    > jake wrote:
    >
    >>>> I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
    >>>
    >>>Why?

    >
    >> Why not?

    >
    > <checks jake's posting history>
    >
    > You are new here (except for a brief visit at the beginning of this month).


    Nope, he's been here a long time. I remember him from when I first
    asked for sitechecks. First post I can find through Google is April 4,
    2004 :)

    > Lurk for a week or two and you just might find out the many things wrong
    > with frames, the subject comes up every day or so. At the moment I can't be
    > bothered to list the dozen or so extremely bad things about frames, apart
    > from the fact that they are just a pain in the bloody arse.


    Seconded.

    > Check the archive.


    You check the archive ;-)
    (on Google Groups, q=jake+gododdin+group:alt.html)


    --
    Els http://locusmeus.com/
    Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
    - Renato Russo -
    Now playing: Counting Crows - Hard Candy
     
    Els, Aug 27, 2005
    #20
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Powerslave2112

    From Frames to no frames?

    Powerslave2112, Jan 20, 2004, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    637
    brucie
    Jan 20, 2004
  2. Philip
    Replies:
    3
    Views:
    1,019
    Karl Groves
    Jun 28, 2004
  3. Ale

    Frames or not Frames...

    Ale, Aug 3, 2005, in forum: HTML
    Replies:
    17
    Views:
    1,010
    Adrienne
    Aug 5, 2005
  4. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    1,039
    dorayme
    Feb 10, 2006
  5. Replies:
    0
    Views:
    1,221
Loading...

Share This Page