Problems with frames...

[Konrad Hammerer]

Hi!

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

1) Top
and Down and within Down,
2) Left and
3) Right


Top
-------------
|
Left | Right
|
|

Now my question:
In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I
have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
frame, because the navigation table may have changed!

How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?

Thanks,
Konrad

 

[Arne]

Hi!

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

1) Top
and Down and within Down,
2) Left and
3) Right


Top
-------------
|
Left | Right
|
|

Now my question:
In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I
have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
frame, because the navigation table may have changed!

How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?

If you really *must* use frames want to avoid Javascript (that's
good!) the link to a new frameset that loads the new header, nav and
content frames.

 

[rf]

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

Why?

Cheers
Richard.

 

[Konrad Hammerer]

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

Why?

I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do
something like this, it would be very helpfull. I want to have a
navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on top of the
page which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar...

Thanks,
Konrad

 

[roland.E.oderant]

I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do
something like this, it would be very helpfull. I want to have a
navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on top of the page
which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar...

Thanks,
Konrad

How about using an inline frame?

Do a google for iframes or inline frames.

rOe

 

[David Dorward]

How about using an inline frame?

All the problems of regular frames, but with worse browser support.

 

[David Dorward]

I want to have a navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on
top of the page which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar.

Why? The vast majority of sites don't do that and users manage to cope OK.
The main effect that will have (*if* you implement frames well) would be to
reduce the effective screen space the user has available for reading the
actual content.

 

[Beauregard T. Shagnasty]

Why? The vast majority of sites don't do that and users manage to
cope OK. The main effect that will have (*if* you implement frames
well) would be to reduce the effective screen space the user has
available for reading the actual content.

Exactly. My browser normally has a usable 450-500 pixels of height for
the content, on this 800x600px monitor. It is really annoying when
some web developer thinks I need to stare at his/her huge site logo
all the time I am trying to read the content in about a 250 pixel
height area.

Get over it. Your logo is not nearly as important as your content.

And I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the bookmarking disaster,
or the search engine problems, of a framed site.

 

[RodeL]

Hi!

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

1) Top
and Down and within Down,
2) Left and
3) Right


Top
-------------
|
Left | Right
|
|

Now my question:
In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I have
the content and in the top frame I have same kind of Header-Information
about the content frame. When I click on a link in the left frame, I know
how to change the right frame (with target="right"), but this is not
enough! I need to change also the top frame, because the Header-Info must
be updated and also the left frame, because the navigation table may have
changed!

How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?

Thanks,
Konrad

Ok, ok, better not use frames at all, I know.
Is some older sites I used this in the leftframe (=navigationmenu)

<a href="javascript:change('top.htm','right.htm','left.htm')">link</a>

It changes three pages at once, using the same frameset.
Be sure to change the frame where you put this link in as last one.
You won't win any design-awards with it, but it works.

Rodel

 

[=?ISO-8859-15?Q?G=E9rard_Talbot?=]

Konrad Hammerer wrote :

I'm not very familier with html. If you can tell me a better way to do
something like this, it would be very helpfull. I want to have a
navigation on the left side and a Header-Information on top of the page
which stays there even if the user uses the scrollbar...

Simple 2 column CSS layout (tutorial)
http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/csslayout/2-col/
Final result:
http://www.456bereastreet.com/lab/developing_with_web_standards/csslayout/2-col/finished.html

Once you've understood how to create such page, you can modify, adjust
as you wish.

CSS Page Layouts
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/presentation/page_layouts/index.cfm

Here's another good tutorial on creating a multi-column webpage:
3 Column Layout (with explanations)
http://examples.tobyinkster.co.uk/3col

Gérard

 

[dorayme]

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

1) Top
and Down and within Down,
2) Left and
3) Right


Top
-------------
|
Left | Right
|
|

Now my question:
In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I
have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
frame, because the navigation table may have changed!

How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?

Thanks,
Konrad

If ever there was a case for not using frames at all, this looks
like it. You basically want everything to change when a link is
clicked. So yes the solution is design the page without frames
and design the page the link goes to however you want it (again,
without frames).

dorayme

 

[David Dorward]

<a href="javascript:change('top.htm','right.htm','left.htm')">link</a>
You won't win any design-awards with it, but it works.

When Javascript is turned on (which it isn't for Googlebot).
http://jibbering.com/faq/#FAQ4_24

It also fails to work around the standard problems of using frames (e.g.
link sharing, bookmarking, etc).

 

[jake]

Hi!

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:

1) Top
and Down and within Down,
2) Left and
3) Right


Top
-------------
|
Left | Right
|
|

Now my question:
In the left frame I have my Navigation Table, in the right frame I have
the content and in the top frame I have same kind of Header-Information
about the content frame. When I click on a link in the left frame, I
know how to change the right frame (with target="right"), but this is
not enough! I need to change also the top frame, because the
Header-Info must be updated and also the left frame, because the
navigation table may have changed!

How can I solve this problem? Is there a way without javascript?

Thanks,
Konrad

No, not without javascript.

The folks over on comp.lang.javascript will tell you how to do it.

regards.

 

[jake]

Why?

Cheers
Richard.

Why not?

 

[jake]

All the problems of regular frames, but with worse browser support.

Iframes work just fine in all modern browsers. Even some old Netscapes
can handle them.

What modern browsers do you know that don't support them?

regards.

 

[jake]

Exactly. My browser normally has a usable 450-500 pixels of height for
the content, on this 800x600px monitor. It is really annoying when some
web developer thinks I need to stare at his/her huge site logo all the
time I am trying to read the content in about a 250 pixel height area.

Get over it. Your logo is not nearly as important as your content.

And I don't think anyone has yet mentioned the bookmarking disaster,

Disaster? What disaster? No problems at all for the 90% of users who use
IE; the other browser manufacturers haven't even considered this a
feature worth implementing in their offerings (even in minority browsers
you can usually book-mark the frame, if not the full context).

or the search engine problems,

No SE problems for a well-written frames-based site.

 

[jake]

If ever there was a case for not using frames at all, this looks
like it. You basically want everything to change when a link is
clicked.

No. Just two frames out of three.

 

[David Dorward]

I've a question concerning frames. I want to use 3 frames:
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Problems_with_using_frames

In the left frame I have my Navigation Table,
http://www.allmyfaqs.com/faq.pl?Tableless_layouts

in the right frame I
have the content and in the top frame I have same kind of
Header-Information about the content frame. When I click on a link in
the left frame, I know how to change the right frame (with
target="right"), but this is not enough! I need to change also the top
frame, because the Header-Info must be updated and also the left
frame, because the navigation table may have changed!

target="_top" (and build a new frameset document for each view).

 

[rf]

Why not?

<checks jake's posting history>

You are new here (except for a brief visit at the beginning of this month).

Lurk for a week or two and you just might find out the many things wrong
with frames, the subject comes up every day or so. At the moment I can't be
bothered to list the dozen or so extremely bad things about frames, apart
from the fact that they are just a pain in the bloody arse.

Check the archive.

Cheers
Richard.

 

[Els]

<checks jake's posting history>

You are new here (except for a brief visit at the beginning of this month).

Nope, he's been here a long time. I remember him from when I first
asked for sitechecks. First post I can find through Google is April 4,
2004

Lurk for a week or two and you just might find out the many things wrong
with frames, the subject comes up every day or so. At the moment I can't be
bothered to list the dozen or so extremely bad things about frames, apart
from the fact that they are just a pain in the bloody arse.
Seconded.

Check the archive.

You check the archive ;-)
(on Google Groups, q=jake+gododdin+group:alt.html)