Programs for newbies

Discussion in 'Java' started by rbklex@gmail.com, Apr 16, 2007.

  1. Guest

    Hey,
    I'm wondering.... How do you create a program? I just want to
    understand the basics, although if someone could explain how to make
    one of those 2d-3d computer game worlds, I'd love to learn.
    thanks,
    [Not entering name for security reasons]
    , Apr 16, 2007
    #1
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  2. wrote:
    ...
    >I'm wondering.... How do you create a program?


    Learn the language*, write the code.

    * For Java, a good way to learn is to
    work through the 'Java Tutorial'.
    <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/>

    >..I just want to
    >understand the basics, although if someone could explain how to make
    >one of those 2d-3d computer game worlds, I'd love to learn.


    Creating such a game is hardly 'the basics',
    there are a number of things you should learn
    before writing programs with GUI's (programs
    without GUI's generally run on the command
    line/DOS).

    Then starting into (fast) 2D/3D rendering is
    another learning curve.

    >thanks,
    >[Not entering name for security reasons]


    Huh? You do not need to use your 'real name'
    when posting, but 'rbklex' is suitable as a 'handle'.

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.athompson.info/andrew/

    Message posted via JavaKB.com
    http://www.javakb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/java-general/200704/1
    Andrew Thompson, Apr 16, 2007
    #2
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  3. Z. Guest

    Andrew Thompson wrote:
    > Learn the language*, write the code.
    >
    > * For Java, a good way to learn is to
    > work through the 'Java Tutorial'.
    > <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/>


    I could not disagree more. I tried that. Twice.

    I never quite got the whole OOP paradigm. I was writing crappy,
    procedural Java code. Then I took a course at a local college, and,
    suddenly, it all made sense.

    My advice: Invest three months and ~$400 for a local college course plus
    textbook. Access to a professor who knows his stuff is a huge benefit.

    First you will need to understand OOP. After that, the language you use
    - Java, C++, Perl, C#, etc - is secondary.
    Z., Apr 16, 2007
    #3
  4. "Z." <> wrote in message
    news:6LBUh.155$...
    > Andrew Thompson wrote:
    >> Learn the language*, write the code.
    >>
    >> * For Java, a good way to learn is to work through the 'Java Tutorial'.
    >> <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/>

    >
    > I could not disagree more. I tried that. Twice.
    >
    > I never quite got the whole OOP paradigm. I was writing crappy, procedural
    > Java code. Then I took a course at a local college, and, suddenly, it all
    > made sense.
    >
    > My advice: Invest three months and ~$400 for a local college course plus
    > textbook. Access to a professor who knows his stuff is a huge benefit.
    >
    > First you will need to understand OOP. After that, the language you use -
    > Java, C++, Perl, C#, etc - is secondary.


    Yes having help is useful - but certainly not necessary. My university
    courses mostly told me to pay for an expensive textbook and then do problems
    out of it.

    For many people, the determination to study something when not somehow being
    "pressured" to do so is overwhelming and they give up quickly. If I had to
    guess I would say that, in general, a class forces you to spend more time on
    a subject than someone otherwise normally would. But that does not
    necessarily make it a better method for learning. And the price of teaching
    yourself over a class is a big deciding factor for many people. In many
    cases it could just be an issue of having the right tools to teach yourself.
    A trip to the library, coming home with some crappy 8$ Java book is not
    generally going to be particularly beneficial, in my experience.

    Most tutorials are good for depth study but they are very "narrow" and don't
    teach basic concepts. Even beginner tutorials seems to focus almost
    exclusively on code and little to nothing on style or theory. So to a point
    I agree with you. But I think a good book is just as good as a university
    that you will pay just to have them tell you to go buy the book you were
    going to get originally ;)

    --
    LTP

    :)
    Luc The Perverse, Apr 16, 2007
    #4
  5. Mark Space Guest

    Z. wrote:

    > My advice: Invest three months and ~$400 for a local college course plus
    > textbook. Access to a professor who knows his stuff is a huge benefit.


    Good advice. A four year computer science degree would be better, esp.
    if the poster really wants to do 3D graphics, which is non-trivial to
    say the least. CompSci with a minor in math is more like it.

    To the OP: But yeah, start with the tutorial that Andrew pointed you at,
    take a class if time and finances allow, but realize that what you are
    attempting is not easy and will be a lot of work.
    Mark Space, Apr 16, 2007
    #5
  6. Lew Guest

    Mark Space wrote:
    > Z. wrote:
    >
    >> My advice: Invest three months and ~$400 for a local college course
    >> plus textbook. Access to a professor who knows his stuff is a huge
    >> benefit.

    >
    > Good advice. A four year computer science degree would be better, esp.
    > if the poster really wants to do 3D graphics, which is non-trivial to
    > say the least. CompSci with a minor in math is more like it.
    >
    > To the OP: But yeah, start with the tutorial that Andrew pointed you at,
    > take a class if time and finances allow, but realize that what you are
    > attempting is not easy and will be a lot of work.


    Could be bad advice. Some people learn better and faster without a classroom
    holding them back. I know any number of people, myself included, who found
    ways to learn Java without the expense of a college course, and at the much
    faster pace that such a course would've obviated.

    In my own case, I got together with other programmers to form in-home study
    groups when I was learning JEE. We agreed on textbooks and example projects,
    and took turns presenting the information.

    Free, fun and fantastically effective.

    --
    Lew
    Lew, Apr 16, 2007
    #6
  7. On 16 Apr, 01:42, "Andrew Thompson" <u32984@uwe> wrote:
    > wrote:
    >
    > ..
    >
    > >I'm wondering.... How do you create a program?

    >
    > Learn the language*, write the code.
    >
    > * For Java, a good way to learn is to
    > work through the 'Java Tutorial'.
    > <http://java.sun.com/docs/books/tutorial/>
    >
    > >..I just want to
    > >understand the basics, although if someone could explain how to make
    > >one of those 2d-3d computer game worlds, I'd love to learn.

    >
    > Creating such a game is hardly 'the basics',


    You should probably be talking about solving games rather than
    creating games.

    The easiest would be a one player game with a definite solution. Find
    a puzzle book and look for some ideas.

    If you haven't programmed before, you would be better of playing
    around with an interpreter. This means you can get instant feedback on
    what you are doing. Download a SCHEME, or a BASIC interpreter.

    But yes, a Sun's Java tutorials are a good way to learn.
    ballpointpenthief, Apr 16, 2007
    #7
  8. Oliver Wong Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hey,
    > I'm wondering.... How do you create a program? I just want to
    > understand the basics, although if someone could explain how to make
    > one of those 2d-3d computer game worlds, I'd love to learn.
    > thanks,


    Expect to spend 5-10 years full time studying before you are able to
    make "those 2d-3d computer game worlds". Expect to spend more time (15-30
    years) if you are unable to spend full time studying due to being a
    university student in a non-computer science program; and/or having a job;
    and/or having a family to raise; and/or having friends to spend time with.

    Once you've spent 5-30 years studying enough to know HOW to make a
    game, expect to spend 5-10 years of actual effort making that game
    (especially if you're going to do it solo).

    There's a reason Sony, Blizard, Nintendo, etc. spend in the tens of
    millions of dollars on teams of 100+ employees over several years to
    develop those games, as opposed to just spending a couple thousand to have
    some guy develop the game over the weekend.

    - Oliver
    Oliver Wong, Apr 16, 2007
    #8
  9. Mark Space Guest

    Oliver Wong wrote:
    > <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> Hey,
    >> I'm wondering.... How do you create a program? I just want to
    >> understand the basics, although if someone could explain how to make
    >> one of those 2d-3d computer game worlds, I'd love to learn.
    >> thanks,

    >
    > Expect to spend 5-10 years full time studying before you are able to
    > make "those 2d-3d computer game worlds". Expect to spend more time (15-30
    > years) if you are unable to spend full time studying due to being a


    Well, I think this is a tad excessive. Anyone of mediocre talent could
    master the basics of programming, 2D and 3D math and crank out a couple
    of engines in five years, if they were diligent and applied themselves.
    Yes, I agree that doing it full time (i.e., no more than "student"
    jobs) would be required.

    It is possible to learn on your own, but that requires considerable
    drive, ime. Even self-taught programmers often feel the need to get a
    piece of paper with a degree on it eventually. In fact, I think the
    graphics industry moves too quickly for self-teaching to be possible.
    By the time you learned one technique, the industry would be two steps
    ahead.

    For true mastery, working in the industry is required. Yes that will
    probably take another five years before you could possibly be a "hot
    commodity." But at least you'd be doing it the whole time.
    Mark Space, Apr 16, 2007
    #9
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