ProtoCiv: porting Freeciv to Python

  • Thread starter Brandon J. Van Every
  • Start date
J

JanC

Brandon J. Van Every said:
I am not sure how I feel about it. I think it only bothers me when
they claim to be cross-platform in theory, and the Windows build
simply does not work in practice. A working Windows build should be
easy to obtain all the dependencies for, and it should just build.
When it doesn't do that, when you have to chase all over Hell's green
acre to find the libraries, and then the build simply coughs and gags
and dies, I'm not even slightly amused at how "cross-platform" some
Linuxer is claiming things to be.

You think "cross-platform" means "it runs out-of-the-box on all possible
platforms that ever existed, now exist, and will ever exist"?

Please go searching and come back when you find 1 (one) program which fits
that definition... :p
 
P

paul m

JanC said:
You think "cross-platform" means "it runs out-of-the-box on all possible
platforms that ever existed, now exist, and will ever exist"?

Please go searching and come back when you find 1 (one) program which fits
that definition... :p

vi might come close... ;-)

--Paul M
 
B

Brandon J. Van Every

R. Alan Monroe said:
"Being able to finish something is a form of expertise." --Brandon Van
Every

Cool, I like that. I think I even remember saying it. Keep right on
quoting!

Of course, finishing *something* doesn't mean finishing *everything*. Only
fools do that.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
 
B

Brandon J. Van Every

Peter Ashford said:
*Recognising* that people aren't useful for your purposes is sensible.
*Criticising* people for not being useful for your purposes when they've
never claimed or aspired to be is dumb.

Why? I see no a priori reason whatsoever for your statement. It depends on
one's own purposes, on their purposes, and what actually happens as a result
of the criticism.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
 
B

Brandon J. Van Every

Andrew Dalke said:
Brandon J. Van Every:

Nope. But if you blabber it to everyone in the manner you have
then when you do need someone else's help you're less likely to
get it.

Hello, *what* planet are you on? You think there's some crowd of people out
there just waiting to be useful to me? There isn't. That's what I've just
taken 6 months to determine.
It's made even worse when you make claims related to your
profession (like "Even 12 years ago, "Computer Graphics: Principles
and Practice" didn't teach texture mapping.

It didn't. I have my copy still, and there is no discussion of texture
mapping algorithms in it. It was considered "an advanced subject."
Along came DOOM.") which is proveably false for several reasons

Whatever dude. I could care less about such chronologies. So, why are you
here then? Why are you wasting our time, talking about the finer points of
my personal history? I'm here because I just watched Return Of The King,
just installed a modem said:
(http://groups.google.com/[email protected].
pas.earthlink.net&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain )
because then people tend to remind others of your follies to show
that your knowledge is less than you think it is.

You are here out of a need to remind myself and others of my knowledge or
lack thereof? Wow, what an important job. Hats off to you.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
 
B

Brandon J. Van Every

JanC said:
You think "cross-platform" means "it runs out-of-the-box on all possible
platforms that ever existed, now exist, and will ever exist"?

Please. I talked about supporting *Windows*. You know, the globally
dominant OS.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
 
B

Brandon J. Van Every

James Keasley said:
Yeah, it indicates that you are a lazy **** who wants to get something for
nothing,

Wow, isn't *that* a sophisticated business model. Call me so impressed.
if you want to use someone elses work that you haven't commissioned
from them, find what you want from someone who isn't fussed, and has used the
BSD license, people who have used the GPL have done so cos they *don't*
want some software company ripping off their hard work and not contributing
anything back.

Here's my attitude towards free software:

- if you are going to give something away, give it away completely.
- if it's too valuable to give away, don't.
- software, in general, is not supposed to be free.
- we save labor when "the boring bits" are free.
- ergo, give your boring bits to the common good. Keep the interesting /
valuable stuff for yourself.

--
Cheers, www.indiegamedesign.com
Brandon Van Every Seattle, WA

20% of the world is real.
80% is gobbledygook we make up inside our own heads.
 
A

Andrew Dalke

Me:
Brandon J. Van Every:
Hello, *what* planet are you on? You think there's some crowd of people out
there just waiting to be useful to me? There isn't. That's what I've just
taken 6 months to determine.

I'm on planet Earth, while you're on planet BJVE singing
"I'm in my own world, you can't come in.
I'm having a party, with make-believe friends."

Reread what I said: "when you do need someone else's help."
That's in the future. Unless you never plan to do anything more
than what you did in the last six months? I also used the singular
"someone" without saying one whit about a "crowd of people."

Me:
It didn't. I have my copy still, and there is no discussion of texture
mapping algorithms in it. It was considered "an advanced subject."

Then you don't own the second edition, which came out a year
before that "12 years ago" comment you made. Had you said
14 years ago then things would be different. A slight timing
error perhaps, but properly you should have used the publication
date of your book. Besides, you made the explicit claim that
DOOM introduced texture mapping to the world when by the
time it came out you could buy off-the-shelf SGI boxes with
hardware texture maps as part of GL, and of course Wolf3D
had texture maps for the walls.
Whatever dude. I could care less about such chronologies.

Indeed, since they show your claims of expertise in the field
to be overblown it's no wonder you prefer to ignore it.
So, why are you here then? Why are you wasting our
time, talking about the finer points of my personal history?

Hmmm, you're the one who started wasting our time to talk
about your personal history. But that would be another
detail of your history you probably don't care about.
You are here out of a need to remind myself and others of my knowledge or
lack thereof? Wow, what an important job. Hats off to you.

Actually, I'm here on a perhaps misguided hope that you
will see that the style in which you say and do things affects
how people work with you. An engaging and even thoughtful
commentary tends to get the best side of people, while one
which is spiteful and demeaning gets the worst, and with
consequences that may in this era of Google affect you for
years to come. That last is of course an extreme but as it is
you appear to be approaching persona non grata in this
forum which makes it less likely that anyone will help you out
in future endeavors.

Andrew
(e-mail address removed)
 
T

Tom Plunket

Brandon said:
Why are you wasting our time...

Why be concerned about why someone else is wasting their time?
It's up to the reader to decide to spend time reading posts or
not, the author does not make these decisions. So- the person
wasting their time, by definition, is the person reading the
posts in the first place and claiming that they're a waste...

-tom!
 
T

Tom Plunket

Brandon said:
Agreed, and more specifically, there is a huge *cultural divide* between
most OSS developers and proprietary commercial developers who simply want to
add some OSS "to get the boring bits over with." There are also huge
cultural divides between Linux and Windows developers, and again between
commercial game developers and hobbyist game developers.

So why waste their time even asking if they would consider
aligning their goals with yours? That seems like the ridiculous
part- OF COURSE hobbyists are not going to want to take
commercial concerns into account, THAT'S THE POINT.

-tom!
 
M

Michael Geary

Brandon said:
Is there something fundamentally *wrong* with recognizing how
useless people are to your purposes?

It gives people the impression that you have a bad attitude, that you want
something from them and don't want to give anything in return.

As a result, people will not want to help you achieve your purposes.

Is it wrong? That's for you to decide. It's certainly self-defeating.

-Mike
 
B

Bent C Dalager

You think "cross-platform" means "it runs out-of-the-box on all possible
platforms that ever existed, now exist, and will ever exist"?

I'm still amused that some subcultures think of cross-platform as
"runs on 98, NT, 2k and XP" :)

Cheers
Bent D
 
G

G.I.L

Brandon said:
You're a fool then. What's your school of advice, keep working on
things no matter how much of a boring waste of time they become?

No, you should evaluate the gain/loss ratio on every project you consider
working on. You seemed to give it all justifications before starting to work
on it, and can it completely after a very short amount of time. Either you
haven't gone deep enough, and you haven't discovered the interesting bits,
or you're a very shallow professional to have missed the boring parts of the
project. What would your advice be? Start wasting time and money on things
and can them if they appear to be boring? How about minimizing the loss by
completing something which would give you something in return, such as a
non-crashing port?
Getting "credit" was a goal? News to me.

It's you who wanted to give advice to other people. Do you really believe
anyone would follow your advice after THIS???
Read it again, and put up or shut up. If you don't have the balls to
allow postmortems of your *own* projects, don't expect me to care
about your flak.

Wow, you do have a thick skin, dontcha? How about listening to advice from
others for a change? Is it just possible that you're trying to discovering
the right trail on the wrong road?

Ok, I'll bite. I just invested 0$ on a 3D shooter. I started working on it,
and the math was too hard. I gave up after 5 minutes. Do I qualify?

g
 
G

Gerry Quinn

Agreed, and more specifically, there is a huge *cultural divide* between
most OSS developers and proprietary commercial developers who simply want to
add some OSS "to get the boring bits over with."

And guess what bits of a project OSS programmers often tend not to
bother finishing?

As somebody once said, the purpose of paying wages is not to motivate
people to work. It's to motivate them to come in on Monday mornings.

Think of the boring bits as commercial software's secret weapon ;-)

Gerry Quinn
 
R

R. Alan Monroe

You think "cross-platform" means "it runs out-of-the-box on all possible
platforms that ever existed, now exist, and will ever exist"?

Please go searching and come back when you find 1 (one) program which fits
that definition... :p

"Hello World"? :^)

Alan
 
W

WTH

Ok, I'll bite. I just invested 0$ on a 3D shooter. I started working on
it,
and the math was too hard. I gave up after 5 minutes. Do I qualify?

Why didn't OSS flock to satiate your every desire? Shiftless bunch of
bastards that lot...

WTH
 
T

Tom Plunket

Peter said:
It would just as dumb as me criticising you for not advancing OS
software - you've never intended to, don't care, so the criticism
would be stupid.

Indeed, though, Brandon's mere existence is utterly worthless to
all other developers in the world. ...at least using his
characterizations of value-adding.

-tom!
 
S

Servé Lau

Brandon J. Van Every said:
Except that I didn't say that, so it wouldn't be within your legal rights to
quote me as having said such. If you want to quote me, you're going to have
to *quote* me, not paraphrase me in your own idiom.
aha,

Why do you think OS developers owe you any kind of value at all?
"I don't. But that's not going to stop me from denigrating them for being
incapable of fulfillng the kinds of projects I have in mind."
 

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