Pull-Down Menus

Discussion in 'HTML' started by D.Evans, Dec 22, 2003.

  1. D.Evans

    D.Evans Guest

    Pull-down menus seem to be rather rare on the Internet, especially
    among commercial sites. Is this becuse they cannot be implemented
    properly in HTML and Javascript?

    If there is a site that uses them in a fashionable way that really
    works, please reply with the URL of the site(s).

    Thanks
     
    D.Evans, Dec 22, 2003
    #1
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  2. D.Evans

    Whitecrest Guest

    In article <>,
    says...
    > Pull-down menus seem to be rather rare on the Internet, especially
    > among commercial sites. Is this becuse they cannot be implemented
    > properly in HTML and Javascript?


    I have not noticed that trend. I have been noticing the exact opposite
    actually.

    > If there is a site that uses them in a fashionable way that really
    > works, please reply with the URL of the site(s).


    The terms fashionable and really works are objective. I like
    www.msnbc.com Maybe you will too. Of course some would like you to
    believe that it all sucks and 10's of millions of others who like it,
    are just too stupid to know that they are wrong...

    > Thanks


    Well they will, just read....

    --
    Whitecrest Entertainment
    www.whitecrestent.com
     
    Whitecrest, Dec 22, 2003
    #2
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  3. Toby A Inkster, Dec 22, 2003
    #3
  4. D.Evans wrote:

    > Pull-down menus seem to be rather rare on the Internet, especially
    > among commercial sites. Is this becuse they cannot be implemented
    > properly in HTML and Javascript?


    Depends how you define "properly".

    They can not be implemented in a way that acts like the typical application
    menus, nor can they be implemented (at least I haven't seen such an
    implementation) in a way which I don't find irritating.

    --
    David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>
     
    David Dorward, Dec 22, 2003
    #4
  5. Whitecrest wrote:
    > www.msnbc.com


    At a 1024x786 browser window (haven't measured the viewport), the
    business menu is taller than my browser window. When I try to scroll
    down, the menu disappears. How am I supposed to use the lower options on
    the menu?
     
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 22, 2003
    #5
  6. D.Evans

    Guest

    On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:44:00 +0000, David Dorward <> wrote:
    >They can not be implemented in a way that acts like the typical application
    >menus, nor can they be implemented (at least I haven't seen such an
    >implementation) in a way which I don't find irritating.


    This one at brainjar.com seems to act like a typical application menu:

    http://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/menubar/demo.html
     
    , Dec 22, 2003
    #6
  7. wrote:

    > This one at brainjar.com seems to act like a typical application menu:


    > http://www.brainjar.com/dhtml/menubar/demo.html


    Lets see...

    * Move mouse to menu
    * Depress mouse button
    * Move mouse

    Nope, menu doesn't open and it drags a link about instead.



    --
    David Dorward <http://dorward.me.uk/>
     
    David Dorward, Dec 22, 2003
    #7
  8. Leif K-Brooks, Dec 22, 2003
    #8
  9. D.Evans

    brucie Guest

    in post <news:>
    D.Evans said:

    > Pull-down menus seem to be rather rare on the Internet,


    thats a good thing. they're not a very user friendly means of
    navigation.


    --
    brucie
    23/December/2003 07:51:03 am kilo
     
    brucie, Dec 22, 2003
    #9
  10. D.Evans

    Steve R. Guest

    Leif K-Brooks wrote in message ...
    > Isn't usable without JavaScript.


    Let's face reality and realise that *everyone* uses javascript .....

    Except for a few crazy folks on this newsgroup :~)
     
    Steve R., Dec 22, 2003
    #10
  11. D.Evans

    Eric Bohlman Guest

    "Steve R." <> wrote in
    news:m7KFb.3945$:

    > Leif K-Brooks wrote in message ...
    >> Isn't usable without JavaScript.

    >
    > Let's face reality and realise that *everyone* uses javascript .....
    >
    > Except for a few crazy folks on this newsgroup :~)


    Googlebot doesn't, so if the links in the menu system are stored as part of
    the script code rather than in HTML, it won't be able to follow them and
    the sub-pages of the site won't get indexed unless a lot of external sites
    link to them. Nor will link-checking software be able to verify that they
    remain live.

    Properly written Javascript could take a menu marked up as a nested list of
    links and restyle it into a set of pull-down menus, making the navigation
    available to non-JS users including bots. But the typical menu scripts
    that you can grab off the Web and drop into your pages don't do this. This
    is one of those things where a half-assed implementation is substantially
    worse than not doing it at all.
     
    Eric Bohlman, Dec 22, 2003
    #11
  12. D.Evans

    Larry Webb Guest

    Eric Bohlman wrote:
    > "Steve R." <> wrote in
    > news:m7KFb.3945$:
    >
    >
    >>Leif K-Brooks wrote in message ...
    >>
    >>>Isn't usable without JavaScript.

    >>
    >>Let's face reality and realise that *everyone* uses javascript .....
    >>
    >>Except for a few crazy folks on this newsgroup :~)

    >
    >
    > Googlebot doesn't, so if the links in the menu system are stored as part of
    > the script code rather than in HTML, it won't be able to follow them and
    > the sub-pages of the site won't get indexed unless a lot of external sites
    > link to them. Nor will link-checking software be able to verify that they
    > remain live.
    >
    > Properly written Javascript could take a menu marked up as a nested list of
    > links and restyle it into a set of pull-down menus, making the navigation
    > available to non-JS users including bots. But the typical menu scripts
    > that you can grab off the Web and drop into your pages don't do this. This
    > is one of those things where a half-assed implementation is substantially
    > worse than not doing it at all.
    >


    Do you know if Sothink's DHTML Menu software produces the properly
    written Javascript you mention above?

    Thanks
    Larry
     
    Larry Webb, Dec 23, 2003
    #12
  13. D.Evans

    D.Evans Guest

    Toby A Inkster <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > D.Evans wrote:
    >
    > > If there is a site that uses them in a fashionable way that really
    > > works, please reply with the URL of the site(s).

    >
    > http://devedge.netscape.com/


    Let me re-state the issue I raised. I'm talking about dynamic
    drop-down menus where the sub-menu appears when the mouse cursor
    hovers over the top menu item. For example, this site qualifies,
    although the sub-menu is slow to respond to the mouse:

    http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/asapsource/ .
     
    D.Evans, Dec 23, 2003
    #13
  14. D.Evans

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On 22 Dec 2003 19:12:41 -0800, D.Evans declared in alt.html:
    > Toby A Inkster <> wrote in message news:<>...
    >>
    >> http://devedge.netscape.com/

    >
    > Let me re-state the issue I raised. I'm talking about dynamic
    > drop-down menus where the sub-menu appears when the mouse cursor
    > hovers over the top menu item.


    And the one that Toby suggested doesn't qualify because....?

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Dec 23, 2003
    #14
  15. D.Evans

    D.Evans Guest

    Toby A Inkster <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > D.Evans wrote:
    >
    > > If there is a site that uses them in a fashionable way that really
    > > works, please reply with the URL of the site(s).

    >
    > http://devedge.netscape.com/


    Yes, the Netscape site is exactly what I am talking about, and they
    seem to do it well. They also seem to do it without Javascript.

    There is a site, to be nameless at the moment, which has two
    moderate-sized gif images to download, and the sub-menus act weird
    until the images are finished loading because of the Javascript.

    Thank you Toby.
     
    D.Evans, Dec 23, 2003
    #15
  16. D.Evans

    Guest

    On 22 Dec 2003 19:34:32 -0800, (D.Evans) wrote:
    >Yes, the Netscape site is exactly what I am talking about, and they
    >seem to do it well. They also seem to do it without Javascript.


    No, they do use Javascript. Anyways, how would such a menu be possible
    *without* javascript?
     
    , Dec 23, 2003
    #16
  17. Quoth the raven named D.Evans:

    > Toby A Inkster <> wrote in message
    > news:<>...
    >
    >> D.Evans wrote:
    >>
    >>> If there is a site that uses them in a fashionable way that
    >>> really works, please reply with the URL of the site(s).

    >>
    >> http://devedge.netscape.com/

    >
    > Let me re-state the issue I raised. I'm talking about dynamic
    > drop-down menus where the sub-menu appears when the mouse cursor
    > hovers over the top menu item. For example, this site qualifies,
    > although the sub-menu is slow to respond to the mouse:
    >
    > http://www.thomasregister.com/olc/asapsource/ .


    You mean the drop-down on the two left buttons, Services and About
    ASAP? Those, and all the other mouseover menus are annoying. I move my
    mouse toward the back button and a bunch of menus blink.

    When seeing that site, I'm also expecting something to happen when I
    mouseover the next three buttons, but nothing does. Inconsistent.

    Of course, if JavaScript is not available, there is no navigation.

    --
    -bts
    -This space intentionally left blank.
     
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Dec 23, 2003
    #17
  18. D.Evans

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 03:45:36 GMT, declared in
    alt.html:

    > On 22 Dec 2003 19:34:32 -0800, (D.Evans) wrote:
    >>Yes, the Netscape site is exactly what I am talking about, and they
    >>seem to do it well. They also seem to do it without Javascript.

    >
    > No, they do use Javascript. Anyways, how would such a menu be possible
    > *without* javascript?


    In theory, with CSS. In practise, this is only supported by Gecko-based
    browsers at this stage.

    See also http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/css/edge/menus/demo.html (totally CSS
    - no Javascript).

    The Netscape one uses CSS primarily, then has a Javascript fallback for
    browsers that don't support CSS well enough (non-Gecko browsers), and then
    a basic link fallback for browsers that don't support Javascript either.
    Unfortunately it is rather buggy in Opera (though at least the site is
    still usable), but I have yet to find a better one.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
     
    Mark Parnell, Dec 23, 2003
    #18
  19. D.Evans

    Guest

    On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 03:45:36 GMT, wrote:
    >No, they do use Javascript. Anyways, how would such a menu be possible
    >*without* javascript?


    Oops, looks like I'm wrong about this... I think. In Mozilla, it still works
    when I disable javascript... But in Opera, the submenus don't get displayed
    correctly when I disable javascript, so that's weird. I can't even find where
    I can disable javascript in IE 5.5.
     
    , Dec 23, 2003
    #19
  20. wrote:
    > No, they do use Javascript. Anyways, how would such a menu be possible
    > *without* javascript?



    Only to fix IE's broken (lack of) CSS2 support. Look at their CSS to see
    how it's possible.
     
    Leif K-Brooks, Dec 23, 2003
    #20
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