PyQt, Qt, Windows and Linux

[Vamsi Mudrageda]

I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
GUI response-time.

So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
to hoping someone can help...

Objective:
Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
able to also run it on Windows.

Questions:
1) Is it legally possible to do that?
2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?
3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?
(I would like to develop the program entirely on Linux, but make
executables for other platforms).

Any help would be greatly appreciated. If you guys have another GUI
toolkit for python, then please by all means...

Thx.

 

[Alex Martelli]

I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
GUI response-time.

So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
to hoping someone can help...

Objective:
Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
able to also run it on Windows.

Questions:
1) Is it legally possible to do that?
Yes.

2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?

Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .

3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?

That's an issue for such tools as py2exe and McMillan's "installer"; at
this time, I do not believe they support that "cross-packaging"
functionality. However, you surely _can_ package things up with the
distutils, e.g. into a .zip, and copy over and install that package
on Windows; that may not be quite as smooth but it should work fine.

(I would like to develop the program entirely on Linux, but make
executables for other platforms).

In the approach I'd suggest you WOULD develop entirely on Linux, but
the other platforms would first separately install Python and needed
extensions, then install your specific program by unpacking the .zip
and running "python setup.py install" -- not TOO bad, I think.


Alex

 

[Phil Thompson]

I am kind of new to Python, and after trying and using wxPython, I found
it kind of lacking in easy-to-read documentation, speed at loading, and
GUI response-time.

So I am looking for an another GUI toolkit that is cross-platform for
Python, and am leaning toward PyQt (PyGTK is kind of dull looking in
comparison). Unfortunately, although TrollTech says Qt is
cross-platform, its license strategy has me a bit confused. So here is
to hoping someone can help...

Objective:
Develop/Write a program for personal use on my Linux using PyQt. Be
able to also run it on Windows.

Questions:
1) Is it legally possible to do that?
Yes.

2) Do I need to buy a license from TrollTech?

Yes - and a license for PyQt.

3) Can I create a .exe file for my windows on my Linux and copy it over?
(I would like to develop the program entirely on Linux, but make
executables for other platforms).

That's a function of the different packaging packages available.

Phil

 

[Phil Thompson]

Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .

No - not Mac.

Phil

 

[Ken Godee]

No - not Mac.

Phil

Maybe I'm missing something new here.........

But as far as I know, you "DO NOT" need to buy a license
from TrollTech or PyQt or buy anything to give it a try, as
long as use is personal and not used in a commercial enviroment.
The only thing is you would have to make do with the older
ver.2.3(?) on windows and many do.

Although I do think BlackAdder is a heck of a deal and would
get you the newest versions for both win and linux.

This is the kind of thing that can scare away someone who
just wants to give it a try to see if they like it.
Once they give it a try, they'll be hooked forever!!!

If I'm wrong, someone let me know.

Hands down, PyQt is the way to go!!!!!!

 

[John J. Lee]

Maybe I'm missing something new here.........

But as far as I know, you "DO NOT" need to buy a license
from TrollTech or PyQt or buy anything to give it a try, as
long as use is personal and not used in a commercial enviroment.
The only thing is you would have to make do with the older
ver.2.3(?) on windows and many do.

[...]

Yes: if (you're only using unix/linux) OR (you're happy to stick to Qt
2.x AND you're non-commercial), you don't need a license. They were
talking about using Qt 3 on Windows: in that case, you do need a
license from both TT and Phil (ie. you need to buy BlackAdder, unless
you want to spend large quantities of cash for no reason).


John

 

[Heike C. Zimmerer]

That's an issue for such tools as py2exe and McMillan's "installer"; at
this time, I do not believe they support that "cross-packaging"
functionality.

I'm doing that with the McMillan installer using wine on Linux and it
works for me.

Heike

 

[Vamsi Mudrageda]

Thx everyone.

I was really surprised by all the quick responses.

Ok, to sum up my understanding.

I can freely develop and distribute python/pyqt/qt programs on my Linux,
but I must make the program freely available, ie. GPLed. No problem there.

On Windows however, I need to buy a license from TrollTech if I want to
use their latest offerings (or I can explain my situation to them and
let them decide) as they no longer offer the non-commercial license for
Windows. Once I get the license, I can make executables that can run on
other Windows w/o that user having to buy a license for qt or pyqt.

Did I miss anything?

The windows part is a little disappointing (I am a college student,
can't really afford the licenses... tho BlackAdder looks good), and I
hope TT will change something in the future. Qt looks great (according
to KDE), and since my program is mainly for Linux, I guess I will head
in that direction.

Again, thx all.

PS. I will also write my situation to TrollTech as they suggested in
their "we no longer support the non-commercial license" webpage and
report their response back here.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Maybe I'm missing something new here.........

But as far as I know, you "DO NOT" need to buy a license
from TrollTech or PyQt or buy anything to give it a try, as
long as use is personal and not used in a commercial enviroment.
The only thing is you would have to make do with the older
ver.2.3(?) on windows and many do.

Trolltech no longer distribute the non-commercial version of Qt.

I will look at providing an evaluation version of PyQt that works with the
evaluation version of Qt.

Although I do think BlackAdder is a heck of a deal and would
get you the newest versions for both win and linux.

This is the kind of thing that can scare away someone who
just wants to give it a try to see if they like it.
Once they give it a try, they'll be hooked forever!!!

If I'm wrong, someone let me know.

Hands down, PyQt is the way to go!!!!!!

I can't disagree with that.

Phil

 

[Brian]

Yes, or from one of Trolltech's licensed resellers of licenses. The
cheapest way you can proceed, I believe, is to buy Blackadder, personal
edition, from theKompany.com: it comes with personal-use licenses of
PyQt and Qt for both Linux and Windows (I _think_ mac, too, but I don't
know about that). I believe it currently costs US $70 .

Note that according to the BlackAdder page at thecompany.com, you must
purchase the business edition ($400, currently) if you want the right
to distribute the run-time elements of it. I'm not sure if the OP
only wanted to distribute an app for use on his own windows box, or
distribute his application on the net for use by others.

Trolltech's pricing strategy, for me, keeps me on wxWindows. Qt does
seem like an excellent product, however.

 

[Vamsi Mudrageda]

I'm doing that with the McMillan installer using wine on Linux and it

works for me.

Heike

Could you explain how you are doing that? I tried to understand it, but
it seems to be a little above me

I already got Wine properly installed, so could you go from there.

Thx,
Vams

 

[Jim]

Note that according to the BlackAdder page at thecompany.com, you must
purchase the business edition ($400, currently) if you want the right
to distribute the run-time elements of it. I'm not sure if the OP
only wanted to distribute an app for use on his own windows box, or
distribute his application on the net for use by others.

Trolltech's pricing strategy, for me, keeps me on wxWindows. Qt does
seem like an excellent product, however.

Could someone please explain this to me. I am still a little confused. I am just about to buy
BlackAdder but want to make sure it will suit my needs.

The question I have is this; if I get the Personal Edition, I know I can't distribute the run-time
elements commercially (sell my programs) but can I in distribute them in a non-commercial way?

In other words, if I write a program, I would like to give it to a few of my friends and hence,
would be distributing the runtime components. I don't sell my programs and neither are my friends.
This is totally non-commercial. Do the runtime components come with BlackAdder Personal? Obviously,
I don't completely understand what the Qt runtime components are.

Programming is a hobby for me and I want to write Win32 GUI programs using PyQt but don't want to be
the only one who can enjoy my programs. Specifically, I am writing a numberology program in Python
that I wrote many years ago using VB6 and want to use PyQt and Qt for the GUI design. It seems that
Qt is the only platform which uses Tab Widgets. I couldn't find anything like that in wxPython (I
need multiple tabs) and Qt has a QTab Widget that works perfectly.

Than you for the help. I really want to get BlackAdder but don't want to buy it just to be
disappointed later.

 

[Phil Thompson]

Could someone please explain this to me. I am still a little confused. I am
just about to buy BlackAdder but want to make sure it will suit my needs.

The question I have is this; if I get the Personal Edition, I know I can't
distribute the run-time elements commercially (sell my programs) but can I
in distribute them in a non-commercial way?

No. Personal means personal to you.

Phil

 

[Jim]

No. Personal means personal to you.

Phil

Thanks for the info, Phil. Can you help me out a little more? Honestly, I have spent the last 3 days
searching the Internet for an answer and can't seem figure this out.

One person (I think is was someone from theKompany) said that there was no functional difference
between the Personal Edition and the Business Edition but I think you just told me the opposite. If
I buy the Personal Edition and use it to write my program, I won't have the capability to run that
software on any other computer besides my own (personal to me) ... not even my wife's computer
downstairs, i.e., so the runtime elements don't come with the Personal Edition - which makes it
functionally different?

theKompany web page says the Business Edition is "for commercial use." From my understanding,
commercial means of or relating to commerce and commerce is buying and selling products and I'm not
selling anything. This is really confusing. I want to honor whatever licence I buy but it doesn't
seem reasonable that I would have to pay $400 so I can give my own program away freely.

Thanks for the insight.

 

[Bryan]

Programming is a hobby for me and I want to write Win32 GUI programs using PyQt but don't want to be
the only one who can enjoy my programs. Specifically, I am writing a numberology program in Python
that I wrote many years ago using VB6 and want to use PyQt and Qt for the GUI design. It seems that
Qt is the only platform which uses Tab Widgets. I couldn't find anything like that in wxPython (I
need multiple tabs) and Qt has a QTab Widget that works perfectly.

Than you for the help. I really want to get BlackAdder but don't want to buy it just to be
disappointed later.

jim,

i clicked on the screenshots at the wxPython website and just about every screenshot uses a tab widget and they all look
really nice:
http://www.wxpython.org/screenshots.php

wxWindows/wxPython includes a wxNotepad which is belive is what you are calling a tab widget.

wxPython has wxNotebook, wxNotebook event and wxNotebook Sizer classes. there's an nice example in the wxPython demo
and the source code looks very easy to use. the look and feel is what you would expect on windows.

here's a link to an alphabetical listing of the classes.
http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin27.htm#classref

bryan

 

[Jim]

jim,

i clicked on the screenshots at the wxPython website and just about every screenshot uses a tab widget and they all look
really nice:
http://www.wxpython.org/screenshots.php

wxWindows/wxPython includes a wxNotepad which is belive is what you are calling a tab widget.

wxPython has wxNotebook, wxNotebook event and wxNotebook Sizer classes. there's an nice example in the wxPython demo
and the source code looks very easy to use. the look and feel is what you would expect on windows.

here's a link to an alphabetical listing of the classes.
http://www.lpthe.jussieu.fr/~zeitlin/wxWindows/docs/wxwin27.htm#classref

bryan

Bryan,

Thanks for pointing that out. I got Boa Constructor up and running and tried to find a Tab type
widget similar to Qt's QTab Widget. I can't find one anywhere but, as you pointed out, there must be
one somewhere because there are some in the sample code on their page.

On the alphabetical listing of the classes page, I did find something called wxTabCtrl. It says that
it represents a tab control, which manages multiple tabs. I guess I just need to figure out where to
find it in Boa or some similar IDE.

I would still prefer Qt and PyQt because it feels so comfortable to work with if I can ever get my
questions answered.

Thanks much, Jim

 

[Alex Martelli]

Jim wrote:
...

Edition but I think you just told me the opposite. If I buy the Personal
Edition and use it to write my program, I won't have the capability to run
that software on any other computer besides my own (personal to me) ...
not even my wife's computer downstairs, i.e., so the runtime elements
don't come with the Personal Edition - which makes it functionally
different?

I think the difference is legal (contractual), not technical: you do not
have the _permission_ to copy runtime elements to other computers, even
though you may have the physical ability to do so.

theKompany web page says the Business Edition is "for commercial use."
From my understanding, commercial means of or relating to commerce and
commerce is buying and selling products and I'm not selling anything. This

Qt (all the way from Trolltech) is peculiar that way: if you want to
distribute programs that run under Microsoft Windows, then you do need
a commercial license (there are other variants such as the "academic"
license, etc, but I don't think they apply here). Presumably the concept
is that if people choose to pay for their operating systems, rather than
supporting free ones, they may well pay for applications too.

is really confusing. I want to honor whatever licence I buy but it doesn't
seem reasonable that I would have to pay $400 so I can give my own program
away freely.

If you develop your Qt/PyQt applications with eric3 and distribute them
as free software (GPL) then you do not need to pay anybody anything. If
you distribute applications otherwise than under GPL, or distribute
applications that run on Windows, then you do need to pay (purchase an
appropriate license -- unless your case can be covered by an academic
license or the like, I guess, but I don't know the details of that).

If you use Blackadder for the development, you can still give away your
sources (they are and remain your property); you just can't give away
executables and libraries that are not your property and that you are
not licensed to redistribute (such as those that come with Blackadder's
Personal edition/license).

Somebody's trying to develop a GPL version of Qt that runs under Windows
(with cygwin, specifically for the purpose of using KDE on cygwin); if
that effort matures (I don't know about its current status), then at
least C++-coded applications running on Windows+cygwin, covered by GPL,
and freely distributed, would become possible. If and when this happens,
then for Python-coded applications to be distributable on the same terms
you will only need a suitable GPL-licensed PyQt (or PyQt with some license
that is at least GPL-compatible, of course).


Alex

 

[email9898989]

Trolltech's pricing strategy, for me, keeps me on wxWindows. Qt does

seem like an excellent product, however.

I agree.

I guess the simplest explanation is that if you have anything to do
with Windows or if you want to sell your software, you have to pay for
TrollTech's Qt and PyQt (minimum $400 for BlackAdder).

The only way it is free to use it is if you are developing on Linux,
distributing only to Linux users, and not charging for your software.

Here are some technical advantages to Qt/PyQt/PyKDE, but I can still
wouldn't recommend it for Windows development:
- QT Designer is a very nice intuitive visual GUI builder (form
designer). You can progress from a simple prototype to a
cross-platform app easily. You aren't forced to plan the layout in
advance. Then again for most apps it is not hard to just do your
layout in code.
- The QT C++ API is better designed, although that doesn't mean it is
better for Python development (both PyQt and WxPython are basically
thin wrappers for the C++ Qt and wxWindows APIs). Performance or
bug-wise I don't know that PyQt is better than wxPython on Windows.
On Linux, wxPython uses GTK.
- With KParts and KDE applications, you can embed other components
(like a web browser or spreadsheet) into your own app, although PyKDE
does not yet support this. You can do something similar in wxPython
on Windows embedding ActiveX controls (such as Internet Explorer or
Adobe Acrobat Viewer).

 

[Jim Bublitz]

I agree.

I guess the simplest explanation is that if you have anything
to do with Windows or if you want to sell your software, you
have to pay for TrollTech's Qt and PyQt (minimum $400 for
BlackAdder).

The only way it is free to use it is if you are developing on
Linux, distributing only to Linux users, and not charging for
your software.

Qt for Linux is GPL'd, so nothing prevents you from selling your
software for Linux - you do have to provide source code though
and can't charge for Qt/PyQt/etc.

Here are some technical advantages to Qt/PyQt/PyKDE, but I can
still wouldn't recommend it for Windows development:
- QT Designer is a very nice intuitive visual GUI builder (form
designer). You can progress from a simple prototype to a
cross-platform app easily. You aren't forced to plan the
layout in
advance. Then again for most apps it is not hard to just do
your layout in code.
- The QT C++ API is better designed, although that doesn't mean
it is better for Python development (both PyQt and WxPython are
basically
thin wrappers for the C++ Qt and wxWindows APIs). Performance
or bug-wise I don't know that PyQt is better than wxPython on
Windows. On Linux, wxPython uses GTK.
- With KParts and KDE applications, you can embed other
components (like a web browser or spreadsheet) into your own
app, although PyKDE does not yet support this.

PyKDE has been able to import KParts for at least a year. PyKDE
currently doesn't allow you to export (author) KParts in Python,
although the ability to do this is essentially complete and
mostly just needs to be integrated with the PyKDE distribution.

You can do something similar in
wxPython on Windows embedding ActiveX controls (such as
Internet Explorer or Adobe Acrobat Viewer).

Jim

 

[Phil Thompson]

Thanks for the info, Phil. Can you help me out a little more? Honestly, I
have spent the last 3 days searching the Internet for an answer and can't
seem figure this out.

One person (I think is was someone from theKompany) said that there was no
functional difference between the Personal Edition and the Business Edition
but I think you just told me the opposite. If I buy the Personal Edition
and use it to write my program, I won't have the capability to run that
software on any other computer besides my own (personal to me) ... not even
my wife's computer downstairs, i.e., so the runtime elements don't come
with the Personal Edition - which makes it functionally different?

No, the functionality is the same (but is a subset of "normal" PyQt).

theKompany web page says the Business Edition is "for commercial use." From
my understanding, commercial means of or relating to commerce and commerce
is buying and selling products and I'm not selling anything. This is really
confusing. I want to honor whatever licence I buy but it doesn't seem
reasonable that I would have to pay $400 so I can give my own program away
freely.

The difference between the two versions is the right to re-distribute the BA
version of PyQt (and the embedded Qt) with your application. With the
Personal Edition you have no such right - so your users must have their own
copy.

The Business Edition gives you the right to re-distribute the BA version of
PyQt. Whether or not you make a charge to your users is entirely up to you.
Note that your users do not have the right to further re-distribute.

Phil