Python 2.5 adoption

Discussion in 'Python' started by Joseph Turian, Apr 18, 2008.

  1. How widely adopted is python 2.5?

    We are doing some development, and have a choice to make:
    a) Use all the 2.5 features we want.
    b) Maintain backwards compatability with 2.4.

    So I guess the question is, does anyone have a sense of what percent
    of python users don't have 2.5?

    Thanks,
    Joseph
    Joseph Turian, Apr 18, 2008
    #1
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  2. On Apr 18, 1:08 pm, Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    > How widely adopted is python 2.5?
    >
    > We are doing some development, and have a choice to make:
    > a) Use all the 2.5 features we want.
    > b) Maintain backwards compatability with 2.4.
    >
    > So I guess the question is, does anyone have a sense of what percent
    > of python users don't have 2.5?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Joseph


    I think it depends more on what you want to do. If you're distributing
    the software, you can just "freeze" it and make binaries and then it
    doesn't matter. Or if you use Python at your business, you can do what
    we do at my workplace: Put Python on the network and run all the
    scripts from there.

    Currently, we have 2.4 on our network, but I think we can upgrade it
    to 2.5 without breaking anything. I develop in 2.5 and just put the
    finished products on our network and they usually "just work". But I
    have yet to find good use cases for some of the cool whizz-bang extras
    of 2.5, so I haven't pushed for the network upgrade.

    I hope to figure out when, where and how to use generators and
    decorators at some point, but I just haven't gotten that far a long
    yet, I guess.

    Mike
    Mike Driscoll, Apr 18, 2008
    #2
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  3. John Nagle <> writes:

    > Desktop or server?


    > If server, check what the major Linux distros, like Fedora
    > Core, are shipping with.


    For server, you should probably rather look at distros like
    RHEL/CentOS, Suse and Debian Stable.

    For what it's worth, Fedora 8 has Python 2.5, RHEL 5 ships with
    Python 2.4, and RHEL 4 has Python 2.3. Suse and Debian, I don't
    know.

    > Check major shared hosting providers to see what they're offering
    > to their customers as standard.


    I would expect that to often depend on what OS version they are
    using. And RHEL/CentOS 4 is still quite common, so if you want
    to reach a large "customer base", make sure that your Python
    programs work with Python 2.3.


    --
    Thomas Bellman, Lysator Computer Club, Linköping University, Sweden
    "Don't tell me I'm burning the candle at both ! bellman @ lysator.liu.se
    ends -- tell me where to get more wax!!" ! Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!
    Thomas Bellman, Apr 18, 2008
    #3
  4. Basically, we're planning on releasing it as open-source, and don't
    want to alienate a large percentage of potential users.
    Joseph Turian, Apr 18, 2008
    #4
  5. Joseph Turian

    John Nagle Guest

    Joseph Turian wrote:
    > How widely adopted is python 2.5?
    >
    > We are doing some development, and have a choice to make:
    > a) Use all the 2.5 features we want.
    > b) Maintain backwards compatability with 2.4.
    >
    > So I guess the question is, does anyone have a sense of what percent
    > of python users don't have 2.5?


    Desktop or server?

    If server, check what the major Linux distros, like Fedora
    Core, are shipping with.

    Check major shared hosting providers to see what they're offering
    to their customers as standard.

    John Nagle
    John Nagle, Apr 18, 2008
    #5
  6. On Apr 18, 2:08 pm, Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    > How widely adopted is python 2.5?
    >
    > We are doing some development, and have a choice to make:
    > a) Use all the 2.5 features we want.
    > b) Maintain backwards compatability with 2.4.
    >
    > So I guess the question is, does anyone have a sense of what percent
    > of python users don't have 2.5?


    Perhaps you should ask the inverse question too: what 2.5 features do
    you find so compelling that you are willing to break compatibility
    with 2.4 ? FWIW, the only new 2.5 feature I have been using in
    practice is the conditional expressions, and I could easily live
    without them. 2.4 is still pretty decent, and a major upgrade from
    2.3.

    George
    George Sakkis, Apr 18, 2008
    #6
  7. Debian Etch (stable) has Python 2.4


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Thomas Bellman" <>
    Newsgroups: comp.lang.python
    To: <>
    Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 8:50 PM
    Subject: Re: Python 2.5 adoption


    > John Nagle <> writes:
    >
    >> Desktop or server?

    >
    >> If server, check what the major Linux distros, like Fedora
    >> Core, are shipping with.

    >
    > For server, you should probably rather look at distros like
    > RHEL/CentOS, Suse and Debian Stable.
    >
    > For what it's worth, Fedora 8 has Python 2.5, RHEL 5 ships with
    > Python 2.4, and RHEL 4 has Python 2.3. Suse and Debian, I don't
    > know.
    >
    >> Check major shared hosting providers to see what they're offering
    >> to their customers as standard.

    >
    > I would expect that to often depend on what OS version they are
    > using. And RHEL/CentOS 4 is still quite common, so if you want
    > to reach a large "customer base", make sure that your Python
    > programs work with Python 2.3.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Thomas Bellman, Lysator Computer Club, Linköping University, Sweden
    > "Don't tell me I'm burning the candle at both ! bellman @ lysator.liu.se
    > ends -- tell me where to get more wax!!" ! Make Love -- Nicht Wahr!
    >



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
    Gabriel Ibanez, Apr 18, 2008
    #7
  8. Joseph Turian

    Carl Banks Guest

    On Apr 18, 2:08 pm, Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    > How widely adopted is python 2.5?
    >
    > We are doing some development, and have a choice to make:
    > a) Use all the 2.5 features we want.
    > b) Maintain backwards compatability with 2.4.
    >
    > So I guess the question is, does anyone have a sense of what percent
    > of python users don't have 2.5?



    One possible barometer for the situation is what's the oldest version
    of Python to have been supported in the most bug-fix releases?

    ....In which case you need to maintain backwards compatibility with
    2.3.

    (I bring this up to illustrate that if there are people clamoring for
    a 2.3 updates, there are probably quite a few supporting 2.4 as well.)


    Carl Banks
    Carl Banks, Apr 19, 2008
    #8
  9. Joseph Turian

    Graham Breed Guest

    On Apr 19, 3:16 am, Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    > Basically, we're planning on releasing it as open-source, and don't
    > want to alienate a large percentage of potential users.


    How about Java users? Jython was recently at 2.2 (still is for all I
    know). I'm pleased they've got that far because I like to know that
    my code can run under Java and I like generators.

    My web host uses 1.5.2. That is painful.

    If you're assuming your potential users already have 2.4 then the
    chances are they'll have upgraded to 2.5 by the time you've finished
    anyway.


    Graham
    Graham Breed, Apr 19, 2008
    #9
  10. Joseph Turian

    Guest

    On Apr 18, 2:16 pm, Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    > Basically, we're planning on releasing it as open-source, and don't
    > want to alienate a large percentage of potential users.


    99% is a big percent. My 1% doesn't like something.
    , Apr 19, 2008
    #10
  11. Joseph Turian wrote:
    > Basically, we're planning on releasing it as open-source, and don't
    > want to alienate a large percentage of potential users.

    Then develop for 2.5 with an eye on what is to come this year in 2.6 with regard to already planned
    deprecations.

    - Paddy.
    Donald 'Paddy' McCarthy, Apr 19, 2008
    #11
  12. Joseph Turian

    Ray Cote Guest

    At 12:16 PM -0700 4/18/08, Joseph Turian wrote:
    >Basically, we're planning on releasing it as open-source, and don't
    >want to alienate a large percentage of potential users.
    >--
    >http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


    A few seconds after reading this, I read the announcement for pyspread.
    Requirements? Python 2.5.

    You might want to talk with the pyspread folks regarding their
    decision to require 2.5.
    http://pyspread.sourceforge.net

    --Ray

    --

    Raymond Cote
    Appropriate Solutions, Inc.
    PO Box 458 ~ Peterborough, NH 03458-0458
    Phone: 603.924.6079 ~ Fax: 603.924.8668
    rgacote(at)AppropriateSolutions.com
    www.AppropriateSolutions.com
    Ray Cote, Apr 19, 2008
    #12
  13. Joseph Turian

    Lie Guest

    On Apr 19, 1:08 am, Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    > How widely adopted is python 2.5?
    >
    > We are doing some development, and have a choice to make:
    > a) Use all the 2.5 features we want.
    > b) Maintain backwards compatability with 2.4.
    >


    There is another choice: Develop with future in mind because it's
    possible that when you finished version 1, what seemed to be future
    would become the present. This is especially if the project is big and
    requires years to complete.

    On Apr 19, 5:13 pm, Graham Breed <> wrote:
    > My web host uses 1.5.2. That is painful.


    If them using 1.5.2 is painful for you ask the host to install
    something newer (AFAIK it is possible to run several python versions
    side-by-side) or prepare yourself to move to other host.
    Lie, Apr 20, 2008
    #13
  14. Joseph Turian

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    >
    >Basically, we're planning on releasing it as open-source, and don't
    >want to alienate a large percentage of potential users.


    Datapoint: my company still uses 2.3 and *might* upgrade to 2.4 and
    later this year. Basically, any company with lots of servers has a good
    chance to still be stuck with 2.2/2.3 (we only dropped 2.2 last fall).
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?
    Aahz, Apr 21, 2008
    #14
  15. Joseph Turian

    Guest

    On Apr 21, 9:28 am, (Aahz) wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Joseph Turian  <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > >Basically, we're planning on releasing it as open-source, and don't
    > >want to alienate a large percentage of potential users.

    >
    > Datapoint: my company still uses 2.3 and *might* upgrade to 2.4 and
    > later this year.  Basically, any company with lots of servers has a good
    > chance to still be stuck with 2.2/2.3 (we only dropped 2.2 last fall).
    > --
    > Aahz ()           <*>        http://www.pythoncraft.com/
    >
    > Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?  


    Different is a verbally atomic relation.
    , Apr 21, 2008
    #15
  16. Joseph Turian

    Lou Pecora Guest

    In article
    <>,
    wrote:

    > On Apr 21, 9:28 am, (Aahz) wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?  

    >
    > Different is a verbally atomic relation.



    It's a Passover question.

    --
    -- Lou Pecora
    Lou Pecora, Apr 21, 2008
    #16
  17. Joseph Turian

    Guest

    On Apr 21, 12:59 pm, Lou Pecora <> wrote:
    > In article
    > <>,
    >
    >   wrote:
    > > On Apr 21, 9:28 am, (Aahz) wrote:

    >
    > > > Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?  

    >
    > > Different is a verbally atomic relation.

    >
    > It's a Passover question.


    Did it Pass.
    , Apr 21, 2008
    #17
  18. Joseph Turian

    Jorgen Grahn Guest

    On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 12:49:25 -0700 (PDT), George Sakkis <> wrote:
    > On Apr 18, 2:08 pm, Joseph Turian <> wrote:
    >> How widely adopted is python 2.5?
    >>
    >> We are doing some development, and have a choice to make:
    >> a) Use all the 2.5 features we want.
    >> b) Maintain backwards compatability with 2.4.
    >>
    >> So I guess the question is, does anyone have a sense of what percent
    >> of python users don't have 2.5?

    >
    > Perhaps you should ask the inverse question too: what 2.5 features do
    > you find so compelling that you are willing to break compatibility
    > with 2.4 ? FWIW, the only new 2.5 feature I have been using in
    > practice is the conditional expressions, and I could easily live
    > without them. 2.4 is still pretty decent, and a major upgrade from
    > 2.3.


    Another data point: I write some Python code in my work and some for
    hobby/private use, and I am very happy with 2.3. List comprehensions
    (or whatever they are called) and generators are the most recent
    features I would hate living without.

    OP: keep in mind that your users do not see any gain from you using
    2.5. All they see is something that makes your software harder to
    install. At some point you can dismiss them as living in the Stone Age,
    but the Stone Age is currently 2.1 or something. Maybe 2.2 is, too.

    /Jorgen

    --
    // Jorgen Grahn <grahn@ Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu
    \X/ snipabacken.se> R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!
    Jorgen Grahn, Apr 21, 2008
    #18
  19. On Mon, Apr 21, 2008 at 1:49 PM, Jorgen Grahn <> wrote:

    > OP: keep in mind that your users do not see any gain from you using
    > 2.5. All they see is something that makes your software harder to
    > install. At some point you can dismiss them as living in the Stone Age,
    > but the Stone Age is currently 2.1 or something. Maybe 2.2 is, too.


    Except for the memory bug which 2.5 fixed (not giving memory back),
    which in some cases with 2.4 could be a really large issue. But in
    that case you get the benefit whether it was "coded for" 2.5 or not.
    So it is still safest to develop for a lower common denominator. For
    me, the best things about 2.5 were the memory fixes/performance, and
    the inclusion of ctypes in the standard library. The language
    upgrades are mostly corner cases. If I were the OP, and those corner
    situations aren't too big of an issue, I would restrict my usage to
    2.4 or even 2.3 to allow easier adoption of the software.
    Patrick Mullen, Apr 22, 2008
    #19
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