Python 2.5 licensing: stop this change

Discussion in 'Python' started by Steve Holden, Apr 1, 2006.

  1. Steve Holden

    Steve Holden Guest

    As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
    recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in

    http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html

    I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
    it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
    reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
    contributing to the code base.

    If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
    something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
    Python as we know it.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
    Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogspot.com
    Steve Holden, Apr 1, 2006
    #1
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  2. Steve Holden

    ajones Guest

    I say good riddence. Python's success has always been on its merits as
    an open source application platform. Corprate usage has always been
    relatively insignificant, and I suspect that many companies are
    overrepresenting the level of dependance they have on python in an
    attempt to steer their competitors into just this kind of open source
    license trap.

    I am all for this change. It is about time that free as in beer became
    a double entendre for python.
    ajones, Apr 1, 2006
    #2
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  3. Steve Holden

    Kay Schluehr Guest

    Steve Holden wrote:
    > As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
    > recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
    >
    > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html
    >
    > I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
    > it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
    > reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
    > contributing to the code base.
    >
    > If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
    > something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
    > Python as we know it.
    >
    > regards
    > Steve
    > --
    > Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
    > Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
    > Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogspot.com


    I'm +1 on the new license because I want to spend good money for good
    products.

    My own take is more close to Xah Lees: lets be ultimately responsible
    and found an insurance for all kind of damages related to Python script
    usages. Part of the money the PSF earns for insurance fees could be
    donated to a charitable foundation that cares for indian children that
    suffer from snake bites.
    Kay Schluehr, Apr 1, 2006
    #3
  4. Steve Holden

    Fuzzyman Guest

    Steve Holden wrote:
    > As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
    > recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
    >
    > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html
    >
    > I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
    > it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
    > reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
    > contributing to the code base.
    >
    > If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
    > something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
    > Python as we know it.
    >


    Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
    of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?

    Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
    CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
    Right ?

    Does this cover commercial applications that embed the Python
    interpreter ? (Looks like it will)

    All the best,

    Fuzzyman
    http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml

    > regards
    > Steve
    > --
    > Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
    > Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
    > Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogspot.com
    Fuzzyman, Apr 1, 2006
    #4
  5. Steve Holden

    Fuzzyman Guest

    Fuzzyman wrote:
    > Steve Holden wrote:
    > > As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
    > > recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
    > >
    > > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html
    > >
    > > I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
    > > it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
    > > reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
    > > contributing to the code base.
    > >
    > > If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
    > > something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
    > > Python as we know it.
    > >

    >
    > Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
    > of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?
    >
    > Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
    > CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
    > Right ?
    >
    > Does this cover commercial applications that embed the Python
    > interpreter ? (Looks like it will)
    >


    Hmmm... after due consideration (and reading the announcmement
    properly), I support this license change in full.

    Nice one Steve.

    Fuzzy

    > All the best,
    >
    > Fuzzyman
    > http://www.voidspace.org.uk/python/index.shtml
    >
    > > regards
    > > Steve
    > > --
    > > Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
    > > Holden Web LLC/Ltd www.holdenweb.com
    > > Love me, love my blog holdenweb.blogspot.com
    Fuzzyman, Apr 1, 2006
    #5
  6. Steve

    I agree with you. If my vote means anything, I vote against it.

    >> The Board realises that this change will be
    >> contentious. There are many advantages
    >> to making it, however, which we feel will
    >> benefit the Python community at large
    >> and the PSF membership in particular.
    >> Users who wish to make commercial
    >> use of Python on a royalty-free basis
    >> are encouraged to continue using Python 2.4,
    >> whose licensing conditions remain the same.


    I guess what would happen is that many people will sit on 2.4 for a lot
    longer than expected, or widespread interest in other implementations
    (fork?) suddenly take off ;)

    I would pretty much have to remain with 2.4 at work - we have a
    draconian IT software management policy that would prevent me getting
    approval for a commercial licence for python for at least the better
    part of a year, and this cycle would be repeated for every upgrade (the
    hold-ups involve budgets, cost-centres and red tape). This is why I
    use as much free software as possible.

    Regards
    Caleb
    Caleb Hattingh, Apr 1, 2006
    #6
  7. WAIT-

    Did I just get caught by an April Fools Joke?

    I have a nasty feeling about this :))

    C
    Caleb Hattingh, Apr 1, 2006
    #7
  8. >>>>> "Fuzzyman" <> (F) wrote:

    >F> Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
    >F> of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?


    >F> Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
    >F> CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
    >F> Right ?


    As I understand it, distributing Python is also covered. For a commercial
    vendor $1.25 is peanuts, but for the PSA it is a significant amount (think
    about all the Mac OSX copies if Apple decides to switch to 2.5).
    --
    Piet van Oostrum <>
    URL: http://www.cs.uu.nl/~piet [PGP 8DAE142BE17999C4]
    Private email:
    Piet van Oostrum, Apr 1, 2006
    #8
  9. Steve Holden

    Ivan Herman Guest

    I would certainly look at *all details* of the announcement, including
    the second line from the top which gives the date:)

    Ivan


    Caleb Hattingh wrote:
    > WAIT-
    >
    > Did I just get caught by an April Fools Joke?
    >
    > I have a nasty feeling about this :))
    >
    > C
    >
    Ivan Herman, Apr 1, 2006
    #9
  10. Steve Holden

    Guest

    Ivan Herman>I would certainly look at *all details* of the
    announcement,<

    Aww, but I liked the idea of copying Perl 6 REs, and porting python to
    the toy CPU :)
    (But making strings mutable sounds too much strange).

    Bye and thank you,
    bearophile
    , Apr 1, 2006
    #10
  11. Steve Holden

    Kent Johnson Guest

    wrote:
    > Aww, but I liked the idea of copying Perl 6 REs, and porting python to
    > the toy CPU :)


    I think if PSF is going to support porting of Python to "toy" CPUs then
    the Digi-Comp should be the first target. This will breathe new life
    into these toys which for years have been relegated to the backs of
    closets and dusty attics. Having a modern programming language available
    will bring them out of the dark ages of counters and logic tables and
    make them useful for such purposes as web servers and biological
    research. And for the developers or others who need to target this
    platform, it is again in production.
    http://paperforest.blogspot.com/2006/02/digi-comp-1.html

    Kent
    Kent Johnson, Apr 1, 2006
    #11
  12. Steve Holden

    Guest

    Look at the date.
    Worry about this if it is still around tomarrow
    , Apr 1, 2006
    #12
  13. On 2006-04-01, Steve Holden <> wrote:
    > As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
    > recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
    >
    > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html


    Good one Steve.

    I particularly liked the Comments section.

    :)

    --
    Grant Edwards grante Yow! I represent a
    at sardine!!
    visi.com
    Grant Edwards, Apr 1, 2006
    #13
  14. On 2006-04-01, Piet van Oostrum <> wrote:
    >>>>>> "Fuzzyman" <> (F) wrote:

    >
    >>F> Can I ask for clarification. The charge applies to any commercial use
    >>F> of a derivative work based on the Python source code ?

    >
    >>F> Normal applications that use Python, including bunding the standard
    >>F> CPython as an executable, using tools like py2exe, won't be covered.
    >>F> Right ?

    >
    > As I understand it, distributing Python is also covered. For a commercial
    > vendor $1.25 is peanuts, but for the PSA it is a significant amount (think
    > about all the Mac OSX copies if Apple decides to switch to 2.5).


    I just found last night that my spankin' new Thinkpad came with
    Python 2.2 pre-installed underneath an "IBMTOOLS" directory on
    the C: drive.

    Don't let Lenovo slide by without paying...

    --
    Grant Edwards grante Yow! I'll take ROAST BEEF
    at if you're out of LAMB!!
    visi.com
    Grant Edwards, Apr 1, 2006
    #14
  15. Steve Holden

    Roy Smith Guest

    In article <>,
    Steve Holden <> wrote:

    > As the only director of the Python Software Foundation to vote against a
    > recent Board motion to implement the change in licensing terms described in
    >
    > http://pyfound.blogspot.com/2006/04/python-25-licensing-change.html
    >
    > I would like to place on record my protest against this change. I think
    > it will harm the Python language and ultimately be counter-productive,
    > reducing the user base and discouraging open source programmers from
    > contributing to the code base.
    >
    > If you disagree with this proposed change it's not too late to do
    > something about it. If this change goes ahead it will be the end of
    > Python as we know it.
    >
    > regards
    > Steve


    Absolutely agree. This is a disaster. Specifying the use of $US will shut
    out our friends who use quatloos or gold pressed latinum for currency. Bad
    idea.
    Roy Smith, Apr 1, 2006
    #15
  16. Steve Holden

    Guest

    , Apr 1, 2006
    #16
  17. Fuzzyman wrote:
    <cut>
    >

    From the site:
    "Advanced Program for Research In Licensing, whose First Object-Oriented
    License"

    string = "Advanced Program for Research In Licensing, whose First
    Object-Oriented License"
    for letter in string:
    if ord(letter) in range(65,91):
    print(letter),

    --
    mph
    Martin P. Hellwig, Apr 1, 2006
    #17
  18. Steve Holden

    EP Guest

    >
    >
    >Hmmm... after due consideration (and reading the announcmement
    >properly), I support this license change in full.
    >
    >
    >



    If I could read past the first paragraph do you think I would really
    hang onto this newsgroup asking stupid questions?!

    The personal harm caused readers of this announcement should entitle
    each reader to a free beer (or for those with bad hearts, a
    nitroglycerin pill) at the expense of the perpetrator - though I imagine
    the PSF team of lawyers retained for license enforcement may take up the
    case on his side - money talks.


    - As an aside, I should mention that I have countered the announced
    licensing change with a patent application for the use of 3, 4, or 5
    spaces as an indent for purposes of establishing a code block. I have
    written a tidy little program that will count indent spaces in all
    Python programs and expect to negotiate royalty settlements on a per
    space basis ($.0001 per space proposed). Anyone who prefers to avoid a
    call from my legal team can simply send me their source code for royalty
    calculation, and provide a credit card or bank account number. Thanks.

    EP
    EP, Apr 1, 2006
    #18
  19. Steve Holden

    walterbyrd Guest

    Is this an April fool's joke?

    Please post a link to the original article. Not just a post to a blog.
    walterbyrd, Apr 1, 2006
    #19
  20. On 2006-04-01, walterbyrd <> wrote:

    > Is this an April fool's joke?


    Did you read the blog entry?

    --
    Grant Edwards grante Yow! I will invent "TIDY
    at BOWL"...
    visi.com
    Grant Edwards, Apr 1, 2006
    #20
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