python applications deployement

Discussion in 'Python' started by Rodrigo Benenson, Oct 13, 2003.

  1. Hi,

    Python is a great language. Python has great crossplatform support.
    Python has a great community. Python has excelent tools for other
    languages binding. Python has many good thing, and has some low
    points.

    To my eyes Python has two very bad things:
    1- Tkinter is great for programmers but ugly to everyone.
    2- Python software deployement can be a disaster.

    Most of the people will say that wxWindows is the solution for problem
    1. Then we arive to problem 2.

    I had long time loved activestate python distro because of it python
    modules package system.

    Obviously is much better to the users to see : "Do you want to
    download and install dependency X ? [y]" than get "Dependency X could
    not be found".

    Now that the oficial python distribution has got a Python Package
    Index (PyPI) what are we waiting for an easy to use package download
    and install system ?

    There are precendents like pythonsiphon, pypan and the MacOs packman.

    Having an official Python Package Manager will help everyone that one
    to deploy python applications. Dependencies models could be downloaded
    by the package manager and Python would become the greatest tool for
    speed programmers !

    py2exe and similar projects do not achieve the objective being mostly
    for windows (no more crossplatform support from start to end of
    software devellopment) and bloating the downloads with python core
    each time...

    Please comment the idea, and how to achieve it...

    RodrigoB.
     
    Rodrigo Benenson, Oct 13, 2003
    #1
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  2. Tkinter isn't permanently ugly (was: python applications deployement)

    In article <>,
    Rodrigo Benenson <> wrote:
    .
    .
    .
    >To my eyes Python has two very bad things:
    >1- Tkinter is great for programmers but ugly to everyone.

    .
    .
    .
    There's hope that the visual appearance of Tkinter will improve in
    a finite amount of time <URL: http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/Home >.
    --

    Cameron Laird <>
    Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
     
    Cameron Laird, Oct 13, 2003
    #2
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  3. On 13 Oct 2003 06:51:49 -0700,
    Rodrigo Benenson <> wrote:
    > Now that the oficial python distribution has got a Python Package
    > Index (PyPI) what are we waiting for an easy to use package download
    > and install system ?


    Lack of contributor interest; no one is willing to expend much effort on
    working on this. If a package manager does arrive, it'll probably be driven
    by MacPython, where this problem is viewed as a priority.

    --amk
     
    A.M. Kuchling, Oct 13, 2003
    #3
  4. Re: Tkinter isn't permanently ugly (was: python applications deployement)

    In article <>, Cameron Laird wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Rodrigo Benenson <> wrote:
    > .
    > .
    > .
    >>To my eyes Python has two very bad things:
    >>1- Tkinter is great for programmers but ugly to everyone.

    > .
    > .
    > .
    > There's hope that the visual appearance of Tkinter will improve in
    > a finite amount of time <URL: http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/Home >.


    Hey, nice! Tk is definitely the path of least resistance for me with GUI
    coding, but there definitely is a distinct Tk look that might have been
    fashionable back when Motif was popular but now looks weird or dated to
    most people. However, a lot of this has to do with defaults; on one project,
    I was able to produce a Tk app that looked exactly like a typical Windows
    interface, with IE-style toolbar buttons and everything. Tk is very
    customizable.

    The major deficiencies, in my opinion, are:

    - way too many ways to make a combobox, the standard one being the
    ugliest, and the nonstandard ones being difficult to customize and debug
    - tearoff menus by default - probably sounded like a good idea at the time =)
    - text areas + word wrap + scrollbar = bizarre
    - slow rendering (IDLE is a testament to this)

    --
    ..:[ dave benjamin (ramenboy) -:- www.ramenfest.com -:- www.3dex.com ]:.
    : d r i n k i n g l i f e o u t o f t h e c o n t a i n e r :
     
    Dave Benjamin, Oct 13, 2003
    #4
  5. Re: Tkinter isn't permanently ugly (was: python applications deployement)

    In article <>,
    Dave Benjamin <> wrote:
    >In article <>, Cameron Laird wrote:
    >> In article <>,
    >> Rodrigo Benenson <> wrote:
    >> .
    >> .
    >> .
    >>>To my eyes Python has two very bad things:
    >>>1- Tkinter is great for programmers but ugly to everyone.

    >> .
    >> .
    >> .
    >> There's hope that the visual appearance of Tkinter will improve in
    >> a finite amount of time <URL: http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/Home >.

    >
    >Hey, nice! Tk is definitely the path of least resistance for me with GUI
    >coding, but there definitely is a distinct Tk look that might have been
    >fashionable back when Motif was popular but now looks weird or dated to
    >most people. However, a lot of this has to do with defaults; on one project,
    >I was able to produce a Tk app that looked exactly like a typical Windows
    >interface, with IE-style toolbar buttons and everything. Tk is very
    >customizable.

    .
    .
    .
    Brian Griffin has packaged a new collection of defaults which has
    people raving (with enthusiasm). I don't think anyone's yet writ-
    ten a coherent explanation or description, but the code's here:
    http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/admin/download.html?attachid=19232
    He's delivering applications to customers based on this *now*, with
    success.
    --

    Cameron Laird <>
    Business: http://www.Phaseit.net
     
    Cameron Laird, Oct 13, 2003
    #5
  6. Rodrigo Benenson

    Jeff Epler Guest

    Re: Tkinter isn't permanently ugly (was: python applicationsdeployement)

    On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 06:40:32PM -0000, Cameron Laird wrote:
    > Brian Griffin has packaged a new collection of defaults which has
    > people raving (with enthusiasm). I don't think anyone's yet writ-
    > ten a coherent explanation or description, but the code's here:
    > http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/admin/download.html?attachid=19232
    > He's delivering applications to customers based on this *now*, with
    > success.



    ... somebody want to tell me how to *use* that file? I just get 'can't
    find package starkit' when I try to execute it with tclsh8.4 or wish8.4.

    Jeff
     
    Jeff Epler, Oct 13, 2003
    #6
  7. Rodrigo Benenson

    Mark Roseman Guest

    Re: Tkinter isn't permanently ugly (was: python applications deployement)

    Yeah, we're definitely hoping to get there soon in terms of
    bringing Tk into the modern era. As you say, it certainly is
    customizable enough... probably so customizable that people
    have been able to make do by tweaking, and nobody has bothered
    to go in and fix the default behavior so everyone can take
    advantage of it without pain!

    With the Tk revitalization work, we're trying to address that.
    Out of the box, we want Tk to look more modern out of the box
    (no more Motif look), which is mostly achievable now via option
    settings but needs to be baked in by default. Also adding a
    bunch more widgets like comboboxes, since it is ridiculous for
    everyone to need to do it differently.

    And yes, the tearoff menus being on by default are definitely
    on my personal hit list. :)

    Mark
    (see http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/ to help out or just try
    out the latest demos that we have available!)



    > Hey, nice! Tk is definitely the path of least resistance for me with GUI
    > coding, but there definitely is a distinct Tk look that might have been
    > fashionable back when Motif was popular but now looks weird or dated to
    > most people. However, a lot of this has to do with defaults; on one project,
    > I was able to produce a Tk app that looked exactly like a typical Windows
    > interface, with IE-style toolbar buttons and everything. Tk is very
    > customizable.
    >
    > The major deficiencies, in my opinion, are:
    >
    > - way too many ways to make a combobox, the standard one being the
    > ugliest, and the nonstandard ones being difficult to customize and debug
    > - tearoff menus by default - probably sounded like a good idea at the time =)
    > - text areas + word wrap + scrollbar = bizarre
    > - slow rendering (IDLE is a testament to this)
     
    Mark Roseman, Oct 14, 2003
    #7
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