python applications deployement

[Rodrigo Benenson]

Hi,

Python is a great language. Python has great crossplatform support.
Python has a great community. Python has excelent tools for other
languages binding. Python has many good thing, and has some low
points.

To my eyes Python has two very bad things:
1- Tkinter is great for programmers but ugly to everyone.
2- Python software deployement can be a disaster.

Most of the people will say that wxWindows is the solution for problem
1. Then we arive to problem 2.

I had long time loved activestate python distro because of it python
modules package system.

Obviously is much better to the users to see : "Do you want to
download and install dependency X ? [y]" than get "Dependency X could
not be found".

Now that the oficial python distribution has got a Python Package
Index (PyPI) what are we waiting for an easy to use package download
and install system ?

There are precendents like pythonsiphon, pypan and the MacOs packman.

Having an official Python Package Manager will help everyone that one
to deploy python applications. Dependencies models could be downloaded
by the package manager and Python would become the greatest tool for
speed programmers !

py2exe and similar projects do not achieve the objective being mostly
for windows (no more crossplatform support from start to end of
software devellopment) and bloating the downloads with python core
each time...

Please comment the idea, and how to achieve it...

RodrigoB.

 

[Cameron Laird]

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To my eyes Python has two very bad things:
1- Tkinter is great for programmers but ugly to everyone.

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There's hope that the visual appearance of Tkinter will improve in
a finite amount of time <URL: http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/Home >.

 

[A.M. Kuchling]

Now that the oficial python distribution has got a Python Package
Index (PyPI) what are we waiting for an easy to use package download
and install system ?

Lack of contributor interest; no one is willing to expend much effort on
working on this. If a package manager does arrive, it'll probably be driven
by MacPython, where this problem is viewed as a priority.

--amk

 

[Dave Benjamin]

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There's hope that the visual appearance of Tkinter will improve in
a finite amount of time <URL: http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/Home >.

Hey, nice! Tk is definitely the path of least resistance for me with GUI
coding, but there definitely is a distinct Tk look that might have been
fashionable back when Motif was popular but now looks weird or dated to
most people. However, a lot of this has to do with defaults; on one project,
I was able to produce a Tk app that looked exactly like a typical Windows
interface, with IE-style toolbar buttons and everything. Tk is very
customizable.

The major deficiencies, in my opinion, are:

- way too many ways to make a combobox, the standard one being the
ugliest, and the nonstandard ones being difficult to customize and debug
- tearoff menus by default - probably sounded like a good idea at the time =)
- text areas + word wrap + scrollbar = bizarre
- slow rendering (IDLE is a testament to this)

 

[Cameron Laird]

Hey, nice! Tk is definitely the path of least resistance for me with GUI
coding, but there definitely is a distinct Tk look that might have been
fashionable back when Motif was popular but now looks weird or dated to
most people. However, a lot of this has to do with defaults; on one project,
I was able to produce a Tk app that looked exactly like a typical Windows
interface, with IE-style toolbar buttons and everything. Tk is very
customizable.

.
.
.
Brian Griffin has packaged a new collection of defaults which has
people raving (with enthusiasm). I don't think anyone's yet writ-
ten a coherent explanation or description, but the code's here:
http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/admin/download.html?attachid=19232
He's delivering applications to customers based on this *now*, with
success.

 

[Jeff Epler]

Brian Griffin has packaged a new collection of defaults which has
people raving (with enthusiasm). I don't think anyone's yet writ-
ten a coherent explanation or description, but the code's here:
http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/admin/download.html?attachid=19232
He's delivering applications to customers based on this *now*, with
success.

... somebody want to tell me how to *use* that file? I just get 'can't
find package starkit' when I try to execute it with tclsh8.4 or wish8.4.

Jeff

 

[Mark Roseman]

Yeah, we're definitely hoping to get there soon in terms of
bringing Tk into the modern era. As you say, it certainly is
customizable enough... probably so customizable that people
have been able to make do by tweaking, and nobody has bothered
to go in and fix the default behavior so everyone can take
advantage of it without pain!

With the Tk revitalization work, we're trying to address that.
Out of the box, we want Tk to look more modern out of the box
(no more Motif look), which is mostly achievable now via option
settings but needs to be baked in by default. Also adding a
bunch more widgets like comboboxes, since it is ridiculous for
everyone to need to do it differently.

And yes, the tearoff menus being on by default are definitely
on my personal hit list.

Mark
(see http://tcl.projectforum.com/tk/ to help out or just try
out the latest demos that we have available!)