python-dev Summary for 2003-10-16 through 2003-11-15

Discussion in 'Python' started by Brett C., Nov 27, 2003.

  1. Brett C.

    Brett C. Guest

    python-dev Summary for 2003-10-16 through 2003-11-15
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from
    October 16, 2003 through November 15, 2003. It is intended to inform
    the wider Python community of on-going developments on the list. To
    comment on anything mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_ (or
    email which is a gateway to the newsgroup) with a
    subject line mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev members
    are interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so don't
    hesitate to take a stance on something. And if all of this really
    interests you then get involved and join `python-dev`_!

    This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    Cannon (does anyone even read this?).

    All summaries are archived at http://www.python.org/dev/summary/ .

    Please note that this summary is written using reStructuredText_ which
    can be found at http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html . Any unfamiliar
    punctuation is probably markup for reST_ (otherwise it is probably
    regular expression syntax or a typo =); you can safely ignore it,
    although I suggest learning reST; it's simple and is accepted for `PEP
    markup`_ and gives some perks for the HTML output. Also, because of the
    wonders of programs that like to reformat text, I cannot guarantee you
    will be able to run the text version of this summary through Docutils_
    as-is unless it is from the original text file.

    ... _PEP Markup: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0012.html

    The in-development version of the documentation for Python can be found
    at http://www.python.org/dev/doc/devel/ and should be used when looking
    up any documentation on something mentioned here. PEPs (Python
    Enhancement Proposals) are located at http://www.python.org/peps/ . To
    view files in the Python CVS online, go to
    http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/python/ . Reported bugs
    and suggested patches can be found at the SourceForge_ project page.

    ... _python-dev: http://www.python.org/dev/
    ... _SourceForge: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=5470
    ... _python-dev mailing list:
    http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-dev
    ... _comp.lang.python: http://groups.google.com/groups?q=comp.lang.python
    ... _Docutils: http://docutils.sf.net/
    ... _reST:
    ... _reStructuredText: http://docutils.sf.net/rst.html

    ... contents::

    ... _last summary:
    http://www.python.org/dev/summary/2003-09-01_2003-09-15.html



    =====================
    Summary Announcements
    =====================
    Thanks to midterms and projects my time got eaten up by school. That
    postponed when I could work on the twenty-eighth summary so much that
    the twenty-ninth was need of being written. So they are combined in
    into one to just get the stuff out the door.

    The second half of October had some major discussions happen. Guido and
    Alex Martelli talking equals pain for me. =)

    There was a large discussion on scoping and accessing specific
    namespaces. Jeremy Hylton is working on a PEP on the subject so I am
    not going to stress myself over summarizing the topic.

    A big discussion on the first half of November was about weakrefs and
    shutdown. Tim Peters figured out the problem (had to do with weakrefs
    referencing things already gc'ed and thus throwing a fit when trying to
    gc them later or keeping an object alive because of the weakref). It
    was long and complicated, but the problem was solved.

    If you have ever wanted to see linked lists used in Python in a rather
    elegant way, take a look at Guido's implementation of itertools.tee at
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039593.html .

    Europython is going to be held from June 7-9, 2004 in Sweden. See
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/europython/2003-November/003634.html
    for more details.

    PyCon is slowly moving along. The registration site is being put
    through QA and the paper submission system is being worked on. The Call \0
    for Proposals (CFP) is still on-going; details at
    http://www.python.org/pycon/dc2004/cfp.html . Keep an eye out for when
    we announce when the registration and paper submission systems go live.


    =========
    Summaries
    =========
    ------------------------------------------
    How to help with the development of Python
    ------------------------------------------
    In an attempt to make it easy as possible for people to find out how
    they can help contribute to Python's development, I wrote an essay on
    the topic (mentioned last month, but some revisions have been done). It
    covers how Python is developed and how **anyone** can contribute to the
    development process. The latest version can be found at
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039473.html .

    Any comments on the essay are appreciated.

    Contributing threads:
    - `Draft of an essay on Python development
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038677.html>`__
    - `2nd draft of "How Py is Developed" essay
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039473.html>`__


    ------------------------------------------------
    Generator Expressions: list comp's older brother
    ------------------------------------------------
    If you ever wanted to have the power of list comprehensions but without
    the overhead of generating the entire list you have Peter Norvig to
    thank initially, and then what seems like the rest of the world, for
    generator expressions.

    `PEP 289`_ covers all the details, but here is a quick intro. You can
    think of generator expressions as list comprehensions that return an
    iterator for each item instead a list items. The syntax is practically
    the same as list comprehensions as well; just substitute parentheses for
    square brackets (most of the time; generator expressions just need
    parentheses around them, so being the only argument to a method takes
    care of the parentheses requirement).

    A quick example is::

    (x for x in range(10) if x%2)

    returns an iterator that returns the odd numbers from 0 to 10. This
    make list comprehensions just syntactic sugar for passing a generator
    expression to list() (note how extra parentheses are not needed)::

    list(x for x in range(10) is x%2)

    Having list comprehensions defined this way also takes away the dangling
    item variable for the 'for' loop. Using that dangling variable is now
    discouraged and will be made illegal at some point.

    For complete details, read the PEP.

    ... _PEP 289: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0289.html

    Contributing threads:
    - `decorate-sort-undecorate
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038652.html>`__
    - `accumulator display syntax
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038804.html>`__
    - `listcomps vs. for loops
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039081.html>`__
    - `PEP 289: Generator Expressions (second draft)
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039356.html>`__


    ---------------------
    list.sorted() is born
    ---------------------
    After the addition of the 'key' argument to list.sort(), people began to
    clamor for list.sort() to return self. Guido refused to do give in, so
    a compromise was reached. 'list' now has a class method named 'sorted';
    pass it an iterable and it will return a sorted list.

    Contributing threads:
    - `decorate-sort-undecorate
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038811.html>`__
    - `inline sort option
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038825.html>`__
    - `sort() return value
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038855.html>`__
    - `copysort patch
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038947.html>`__


    ------------------------------------
    Recursion limit in re is now history
    ------------------------------------
    Thanks to Gustavo Niemeyer the recursion limit in the re module has now
    be removed!

    Contributing threads:
    - `SRE recursion
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038839.html>`__
    - `SRE recursion removed
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038962.html>`__


    -----------------------------------
    Copying iterators one day at a time
    -----------------------------------
    Reiteration for iterators came up as part of the immense discussion on
    generator expressions. The difficulty of doing it generally came up.
    This lead to Alex Martelli proposing magic method support for __copy__
    in iterators that have want to allow making a copy of itself. This was
    written down as `PEP 323`_.

    As an interim solution, itertools grew a new function: tee. It takes in
    an iterable and returns two or more iterators which independently
    iterate over the iterable.

    ... _PEP 323: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0323.html

    Contributing threads:
    - `Reiterability
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/038969.html>`__
    - `cloning iterators again
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039593.html>`__
    - `... python/nondist/peps pep-0323.txt, NONE ...
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039656.html>`__
    - `Guido's Magic Code
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039819.html>`__


    -----------------------------------------------------
    Returning Py_(None, True, False) now easier than ever!
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Py_RETURN_NONE, Py_RETURN_TRUE, and Py_RETURN_FALSE have been added to
    Python 2.4. They are macros for returning the singleton mentioned in
    the name. Documentation has yet to be written (my fault).

    Contributing threads:
    - `How to spell Py_return_None and friends
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039000.html>`__
    - `python/dist/src/Include object.h, 2.121, ...
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039026.html>`__


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    'String substitutions'/'dict interpolation'/'replace %(blah)s with $blah'
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The idea of introducing string substitutions using '$' came up. Guido
    said that if this was made a built-in feature it would have to wait
    until Python 3. He was receptive to moving the functionality to a
    module, though.

    Barry Warsaw pasted code into
    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039369.html
    that handles string substitutions.

    Contributing threads:
    - `Can we please have a better dict interpolation syntax?
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039324.html>`__


    ------------------------------------------
    "reduce() just doesn't get enough mileage"
    ------------------------------------------
    That quote comes from Guido during the discussion over whether 'product'
    should be added as an accumulator function built-in like 'sum'. The
    idea was shot down and conversation quickly turned to whether 'reduce'
    should stay in the language (the consensus was "no" since the function
    does not read well and its functionality can easily be done with a 'for'
    loop).

    A larger discussion on what built-ins should eventually disappear will
    be covered in the next Summary.

    Contributing threads:
    - `product()
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039326.html>`__


    -----------
    PyPy update
    -----------
    The PyPy_ development group sent an update on their happenings to the
    list. Turns out they are trying to get funding from the European Union.
    They are also fairly close to getting a working version (albeit with
    some bootstrapping from CPython, but it will still be damn cool what
    they have pulled off even with this caveat).

    They also announced a sprint they are holding in Amsterdam from Dec.
    14-21. More info can be found at
    http://codespeak.net/moin/pypy/moin.cgi/AmsterdamSprint .

    ... _PyPy: http://codespeak.net/pypy/

    Contributing threads:
    - `PyPy: sprint and news
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039579.html>`__


    ----------------------------
    Never say Python is finished
    ----------------------------
    I asked python-dev for masters thesis ideas. I great number of
    possibilities were put out. If anyone out there is curious to see what
    some people would like to see done for Python in terms of a large
    project check the thread out.

    Contributing threads:
    - `Looking for master thesis ideas involving Python
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039763.html>`__


    ---------------------------------
    Rough draft of Decimal object PEP
    ---------------------------------
    Facundo Batista has posted a rough draft of a PEP for a decimal object
    that is being worked on in the sandbox. Comment on it on
    `comp.lang.python`_ if this interests you.

    Contributing threads:
    - `prePEP: Decimal data type
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-October/039870.html>`__


    ----------------------------------------------------------
    Relations of basestring and bye-bye operator.isMappingType
    ----------------------------------------------------------
    The idea of introducing relatives of basestring for numbers came from
    Alex Martelli. That idea was shot down for not being needed once the
    merger of int and long occurs.

    The point that operator.isMappingType is kind of broken came up. Both
    Alex and Raymond Hettinger would not mind seeing it disappear. No one
    objected. It is still in CVS at the moment, but I would not count on it
    necessarily sticking around (although there are rumblings that there
    might be a way to fix it so it is partially useful).


    Contributed threads:
    - `reflections on basestring -- and other abstract basetypes
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/039885.html>`__
    - `operator.isMappingType
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/040122.html>`__


    ---------------------------------------------------------
    Why one checks into the trunk before a maintenance branch
    ---------------------------------------------------------
    The question of whether checking a change into a maintenance branch
    before applying it to the main trunk was acceptable came up. The short
    answer is "no". Basically the trunk gets more testing than the
    maintenance branches and thus the patch should have to prove its
    stability first. Only then should it go into a maintenance branch.

    The same goes for changes to code that will eventually disappear in the
    trunk. Someone might be planning on removing some code, but if that
    person falls off the face of the earth the code will still be there.
    That means applying the patch to the code that is scheduled to disappear
    is still a good idea.

    Contributing threads:
    - `check-in policy, trunk vs maintenance branch
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/039903.html>`__


    -----------------------
    New reversed() built-in
    -----------------------
    There was a new built-in named reversed(), and all rejoiced after giving
    the creator a thorough beating.

    Straight from the function's doc string: "reverse iterator over values
    of the sequence". `PEP 322`_ has the relevant details on this new built-in.

    ... _PEP 322: http://www.python.org/peps/pep-0322.html

    Contributing threads:
    - `PEP 322: Reverse Iteration
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/039924.html>`__


    ---------------------------
    Cleaning the built-in house
    ---------------------------
    Guido asked what built-ins should be considered for deprecation.
    Instantly intern, coerce, and apply came up. apply already had a
    PendingDeprecationWarning and that will stay for the next release or
    two. intern and coerce, though, did not have any major champions
    (intern had some fans, but just for the functionality).

    Guido did state that none of these built-in will be removed any time
    soon. If they do get deprecated it does not lead to immediate removal.
    Python 3, though, takes the gloves off and that can see them just
    completely disappear.

    Contributing threads:
    - `Deprecating obsolete builtins
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/039994.html>`__


    ----------------------------------------
    Passing arguments to str.(encode|decode)
    ----------------------------------------
    The idea of allowing keyword arguments be passed to any specified
    encoder/decoder was brought up by Raymond Hettinger. It seemed like an
    idea that was supported. The idea of specifying the encoder or decoder
    based on the actual object instead of the current way of specifying a
    string that is passed to the registered codec search functions was
    suggested.

    Nothing has been finalized on this idea as of now.

    Contributing threads:
    - `Optional arguments for str.encode /.decode
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/040055.html>`__



    ------------------------------------------------------
    Where, oh where, to move the good stuff out of string?
    ------------------------------------------------------
    It looks like ascii_* and possibly maketrans from the string module will
    be tacked on to the str type so that the string module can finally be
    removed from the language. It has not been pronounced upon, but it
    looks like that is what the BDFL is leaning towards.

    Issues of using the methods of str as unbound methods did come up. As
    it stands you cannot pass a unicode object to str.upper and thus there
    is no one uppercasing function as there is in the string module. This
    issue brought up the problem of Unicode and locale ties and collation
    (how to sort things).

    Contributing threads:
    - `other "magic strings" issues
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/040067.html>`__


    -----------------------------------------
    Supported versions of Sleepycat for bsddb
    -----------------------------------------
    The basic answer is 3.2 - 4.2 should work when you compile from source.

    Contributing threads:
    - `which sleepycat versions do we support in 2.3.* ?
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/040196.html>`__


    -----------------------------
    Sets now at blazing C speeds!
    -----------------------------
    Raymond Hettinger implemented the sets API in C! The new built-ins are
    set (which replaces sets.Set) and frozenset (which replaces
    sets.ImmutableSet). The APIs are the same as the sets module sans the
    name change from ImmutableSet to frozenset.

    Contributing threads:
    - `set() and frozenset()
    <http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-dev/2003-November/040253.html>`__
     
    Brett C., Nov 27, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Brett C.

    John Roth Guest

    "Brett C." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > python-dev Summary for 2003-10-16 through 2003-11-15
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    >
    > This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    > Cannon (does anyone even read this?).


    I certainly do! And thanks for the work - I find it very interesting.

    John Roth
     
    John Roth, Nov 27, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Brett C.

    Wilk Guest

    "Brett C." <> writes:

    > python-dev Summary for 2003-10-16 through 2003-11-15
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    > This is a summary of traffic on the `python-dev mailing list`_ from
    > October 16, 2003 through November 15, 2003. It is intended to inform
    > the wider Python community of on-going developments on the list. To
    > comment on anything mentioned here, just post to `comp.lang.python`_
    > (or email which is a gateway to the newsgroup)
    > with a subject line mentioning what you are discussing. All python-dev
    > members are interested in seeing ideas discussed by the community, so
    > don't hesitate to take a stance on something. And if all of this
    > really interests you then get involved and join `python-dev`_!
    >
    > This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    > Cannon (does anyone even read this?).


    Yes we do, you could ask this question in the end of the summary ;-)...
    And thanks also do rst-docutils, it's very clear.

    --
    Wilk - http://flibuste.net
     
    Wilk, Nov 28, 2003
    #3
  4. In article <>, Brett C. wrote:
    > This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    > Cannon (does anyone even read this?).


    I do. As said elsewhere in this thread, and I agree with this, the summaries
    you write have just the perfect mix of cold facts and editorial musings. I
    lurk on python-dev, so I know just how hard it is to keep track of everything,
    and I must say I think you're doing a great job.

    /Troels Therkelsen
     
    Troels Therkelsen, Nov 28, 2003
    #4
  5. Brett C.

    GerritM Guest

    "Brett C." <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > python-dev Summary for 2003-10-16 through 2003-11-15
    > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    >
    > This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    > Cannon (does anyone even read this?).


    Yes, absolutely, every time. Normally I go to the website, to read the
    formatted version. This time I could not yet find it, so I read the raw text
    version.

    keep up the good work, kind regards, Gerrit
    --
    www.extra.research.philips.com/natlab/sysarch/
     
    GerritM, Nov 28, 2003
    #5
  6. On Thu, 27 Nov 2003 16:32:48 -0500, "John Roth" <> wrote:

    >
    >"Brett C." <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> python-dev Summary for 2003-10-16 through 2003-11-15
    >> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    >>
    >> This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    >> Cannon (does anyone even read this?).

    >
    >I certainly do! And thanks for the work - I find it very interesting.
    >

    Ditto

    Regards,
    Bengt Richter
     
    Bengt Richter, Nov 28, 2003
    #6
  7. Brett C.

    Brett C. Guest

    "GerritM" <> wrote in message news:<3fc7a20a$0$41748$>...
    > "Brett C." <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > python-dev Summary for 2003-10-16 through 2003-11-15
    > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    > >
    > > This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    > > Cannon (does anyone even read this?).

    >
    > Yes, absolutely, every time. Normally I go to the website, to read the
    > formatted version. This time I could not yet find it, so I read the raw text
    > version.
    >


    Sorry about that. I just pushed the new pages to the web site. One
    of these days I need to write a script to do all of the standard stuff
    that I do for each summary so that I stop having minor screw-ups like
    this.

    > keep up the good work, kind regards, Gerrit



    Thanks, I'll try.

    -Brett
     
    Brett C., Dec 2, 2003
    #7
  8. Brett C.

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    Brett C. <> wrote:
    >
    >This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    >Cannon (does anyone even read this?).


    Hey, I've sent you enough corrections on your drafts, do I need to read
    the final copy, too? ;-)
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    Weinberg's Second Law: If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote
    programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization.
     
    Aahz, Dec 3, 2003
    #8
  9. Brett C.

    Brett C. Guest

    (Aahz) wrote in message news:<bqje6o$jd5$>...
    > In article <>,
    > Brett C. <> wrote:
    > >
    > >This is the twenty-eighth and twenty-ninth summaries written by Brett
    > >Cannon (does anyone even read this?).

    >
    > Hey, I've sent you enough corrections on your drafts, do I need to read
    > the final copy, too? ;-)


    =) Sorry, Aahz. You do deserve recognition as the second most
    prolific editor of the Summaries. But I really should just be
    thanking everyone who has ever helped me correct the darn thing. My
    adversity to proof-reading would probably lead to a sub-par Summary if
    other people were not willing to pick up my slack and tell me where I
    need to fix things.

    -Brett
     
    Brett C., Dec 4, 2003
    #9
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Brett C.
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    392
    Brett C.
    Jul 9, 2003
  2. Brett C.
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    406
    Brett C.
    Aug 10, 2003
  3. Brett C.
    Replies:
    5
    Views:
    345
    Ronald Oussoren
    Aug 20, 2003
  4. Brett C.
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    374
    Brett C.
    Sep 13, 2003
  5. Brett C.
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    311
    Brett C.
    Sep 22, 2003
Loading...

Share This Page