Python OS

Discussion in 'Python' started by A Evans, Apr 11, 2004.

  1. A Evans

    A Evans Guest

    I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
    System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
    Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I started
    using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading articles here
    and there I have read that Python is a more secure language than C. I also
    read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python would not be
    able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am by no means a
    programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
    Holy Grail of programming languages

    My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from scratch
    and if so would it be plausible if possible

    Cheers

    A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else

    See Ya
     
    A Evans, Apr 11, 2004
    #1
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  2. A Evans

    Paul Rubin Guest

    The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
    possibly including reimplementing the language. You might look at
    some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
    what you'd be getting yourself into.
     
    Paul Rubin, Apr 11, 2004
    #2
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  3. A Evans

    William Park Guest

    A Evans <ae> wrote:
    > I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
    > System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
    > Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I
    > started using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading
    > articles here and there I have read that Python is a more secure
    > language than C. I also read another article (I can't remember which)
    > saying Python would not be able to develop an OS. I don't believe its
    > true however. I am by no means a programmer at this stage. But as I
    > learn more and more I see Python as the Holy Grail of programming
    > languages
    >
    > My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
    > scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible


    This would be interesting thesis material. As someone else quoted,
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
    But, in practice, there is."

    --
    William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <>
    Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client
     
    William Park, Apr 11, 2004
    #3
  4. A Evans

    Matt Guest

    A Evans wrote:
    > I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
    > System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
    > Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market


    I can't say that it is impossible. I can say that you won't be able to
    do it alone.

    Get started. You will learn a lot of useful stuff before you are
    disillusioned.
     
    Matt, Apr 11, 2004
    #4
  5. A Evans

    John Roth Guest

    "A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:...
    > I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
    > System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
    > Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I

    started
    > using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading articles

    here
    > and there I have read that Python is a more secure language than C. I also
    > read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python would not be
    > able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am by no means

    a
    > programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
    > Holy Grail of programming languages
    >
    > My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from

    scratch
    > and if so would it be plausible if possible


    It depends on what you call "Python." The current Python
    implementations (CPython, Jython and the so far incomplete
    IronPython, PyPy and the unnamed version on Parrot)
    all depend on an operating system and interpreter that provides
    lots of services. (That's not quite true of PyPy, which is
    well worth looking at.)

    The central core of an operating system has to get down
    and dirty with the hardware. Modern operating systems
    are written in a very feature impoverished version of C
    with occasional excursions into Assembler either for performance
    or to get access to hardware that applications are prevented
    from accessing.

    You could undoubtedly create a language that would
    compile efficiently and would still have many (if not all)
    of the conveniences that Python provides, but it would
    be a different language.

    John Roth


    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else


    Likewise. I prefer novice. I consider Newbie to be patronizing.

    JR.
    >
    > See Ya
    >
    >
     
    John Roth, Apr 11, 2004
    #5
  6. A Evans

    slurper Guest

    "A Evans" <ae> wrote:

    > I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
    > System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
    > Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I
    > started using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading
    > articles here and there I have read that Python is a more secure language
    > than C. I also read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python
    > would not be able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am
    > by no means a programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see
    > Python as the Holy Grail of programming languages


    entirely crazy for production os, spending lots of time as a hobby project
    but you're right about python...

    >
    > My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
    > scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else
    >
    > See Ya
     
    slurper, Apr 12, 2004
    #6
  7. A Evans

    A Evans Guest

    Hey thanks everyone for the replies I guess it would be quite the task to
    embark on I would like to do it and I think I will over the next couple of
    years as my skills improve and I start saving some cash to get it off the
    ground and to get other programmers and planners involved.

    Cool the Open Source operating system of the future is going to happen I am
    going to make it happen

    Its a long road from here

    Cheers

    Andrew
     
    A Evans, Apr 12, 2004
    #7
  8. A Evans

    Paul Rubin Guest

    "A Evans" <ae> writes:
    > Hey thanks everyone for the replies I guess it would be quite the task to
    > embark on I would like to do it and I think I will over the next couple of
    > years as my skills improve and I start saving some cash to get it off the
    > ground and to get other programmers and planners involved.


    Don't put any cash into it. Just start up a Python window and see how
    far you can go. You'll learn a lot whether you come up with anything
    useful or not.
     
    Paul Rubin, Apr 12, 2004
    #8
  9. Paul Rubin <http://> wrote:
    > The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
    > possibly including reimplementing the language. You might look at
    > some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
    > what you'd be getting yourself into.


    More recently, check out Movitz, which is a project implementing Lisp
    directly on x86.

    http://www.common-lisp.net/project/movitz/

    This isn't actually Lisp OS, though -- it's a runtime on which an OS
    could be built. A Python OS would require the same sort of layer,
    presumably including a Python native-code compiler and hooks for
    hardware access, so that a kernel could be written in Python.

    --
    Karl A. Krueger <>
    Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution
    Email address is spamtrapped. s/example/whoi/
    "Outlook not so good." -- Magic 8-Ball Software Reviews
     
    Karl A. Krueger, Apr 12, 2004
    #9
  10. A Evans

    Matt Guest

    > From: (Linus Benedict Torvalds)
    > Newsgroups: comp.os.minix
    > Subject: What would you like to see most in minix?
    > Date: 25 Aug 91 20:57:08 GMT
    >
    >
    > Hello everybody out there using minix -
    >
    > I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and
    > professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones. This has been brewing
    > since april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on
    > things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it somewhat
    > (same physical layout of the file-system (due to practical reasons)
    > among other things).
    >
    > I've currently ported bash(1.08) and gcc(1.40), and things seem to work.
    > This implies that I'll get something practical within a few months, and
    > I'd like to know what features most people would want. Any suggestions
    > are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :)
    >
    > Linus ()
    >
    > PS. Yes - it's free of any minix code, and it has a multi-threaded fs.
    > It is NOT protable (uses 386 task switching etc), and it probably never
    > will support anything other than AT-harddisks, as that's all I have :-(.
     
    Matt, Apr 12, 2004
    #10
  11. A Evans

    Aahz Guest

    In article <>,
    John Roth <> wrote:
    >"A Evans" <ae> wrote in message news:...
    >>
    >> A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else

    >
    >Likewise. I prefer novice. I consider Newbie to be patronizing.


    We could call them penitents.
    --
    Aahz () <*> http://www.pythoncraft.com/

    Why is this newsgroup different from all other newsgroups?
     
    Aahz, Apr 12, 2004
    #11
  12. A Evans

    Peter Maas Guest

    A Evans wrote:
    > I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
    > System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
    > Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I started
    > using Python I have fallen in love with the language.


    The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
    CPU speaks Python :) so this is a level where you have to use
    machine language. A viable definition could be an OS whose high
    level functions are provided by Python scripts.

    You could start with e.g. www.linuxfromscratch.org and write all
    scripts in Python. Twisted (www.twistedmatrix.com) would probably
    fit well to such a project because it provides a lot of network
    services. I have no idea how deep you can go but I think that a
    lot of C in between is necessary.

    Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

    Peter Maas

    --
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Peter Maas, M+R Infosysteme, D-52070 Aachen, Hubert-Wienen-Str. 24
    Tel +49-241-93878-0 Fax +49-241-93878-20 eMail
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
     
    Peter Maas, Apr 13, 2004
    #12
  13. A Evans

    Greg Ewing Guest

    Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)

    Peter Maas wrote:
    > The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
    > CPU speaks Python :)


    Currently, no, but... *could* there be one?

    In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got
    to wondering what a machine designed from the ground up
    to run Python code might be like. I got a vision of a
    Python interpreter implemented in microcode, with a few
    extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access, with an
    OS written in Python running on top of it.

    Would it run Python code any faster than an interpreter
    running on an off-the-shelf CPU? Possibly not, but it's
    not clear that it couldn't, either. In any case, it
    would be a fun thing to design, and maybe even to build,
    perhaps using an FPGA.

    Anyone want to help?

    --
    Greg Ewing, Computer Science Dept,
    University of Canterbury,
    Christchurch, New Zealand
    http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/~greg
     
    Greg Ewing, Apr 16, 2004
    #13
  14. A Evans

    Paul Rubin Guest

    Re: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)

    Greg Ewing <> writes:
    > In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got to wondering
    > what a machine designed from the ground up to run Python code might
    > be like. I got a vision of a Python interpreter implemented in
    > microcode, with a few extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access,
    > with an OS written in Python running on top of it.


    Been done already, more or less.

    http://www.faqs.org/faqs/lisp-faq/part2/section-20.html

    http://fare.tunes.org/LispM.html
     
    Paul Rubin, Apr 16, 2004
    #14
  15. A Evans

    Guest

    Paul Rubin wrote:
    >
    > The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
    > possibly including reimplementing the language. You might look at
    > some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
    > what you'd be getting yourself into.


    "not completely insane", but damn close to it! (IMO, of course, but
    it's an educated opinion.)

    Mitchell Timin

    --
    "Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
    pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

    http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
    Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca
     
    , Apr 16, 2004
    #15
  16. Re: Python CPU? (Re: Python OS)

    Greg Ewing <> writes:

    > Peter Maas wrote:
    >> The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
    >> CPU speaks Python :)

    >
    > Currently, no, but... *could* there be one?
    >
    > In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got
    > to wondering what a machine designed from the ground up
    > to run Python code might be like. I got a vision of a
    > Python interpreter implemented in microcode, with a few
    > extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access, with an
    > OS written in Python running on top of it.
    >
    > Would it run Python code any faster than an interpreter
    > running on an off-the-shelf CPU? Possibly not, but it's
    > not clear that it couldn't, either. In any case, it
    > would be a fun thing to design, and maybe even to build,
    > perhaps using an FPGA.


    Maybe a MyHDL backend for PyPy ?

    Thomas
     
    Thomas Heller, Apr 16, 2004
    #16
  17. A Evans rose up and spake:

    > My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
    > scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible


    Apart from the somewhat insane idea of building yet another OS, you
    should consider Niklaus Wirth's seminal ideas regarding Oberon, an
    object-oriented OS. The freshest link I found right now after a very
    cursory search on Google is this:

    http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/native/

    Why hasn't Wirth endorsed Python? Maybe the answer is here:

    http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-May/105946.html

    regards,
    --
    Leif Biberg Kristensen
    http://solumslekt.org/
    Validare necesse est
     
    Leif B. Kristensen, Apr 16, 2004
    #17
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