Python OS

A

A Evans

I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I started
using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading articles here
and there I have read that Python is a more secure language than C. I also
read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python would not be
able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am by no means a
programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
Holy Grail of programming languages

My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from scratch
and if so would it be plausible if possible

Cheers

A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else

See Ya
 
P

Paul Rubin

The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
possibly including reimplementing the language. You might look at
some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
what you'd be getting yourself into.
 
W

William Park

A Evans said:
I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I
started using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading
articles here and there I have read that Python is a more secure
language than C. I also read another article (I can't remember which)
saying Python would not be able to develop an OS. I don't believe its
true however. I am by no means a programmer at this stage. But as I
learn more and more I see Python as the Holy Grail of programming
languages

My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible

This would be interesting thesis material. As someone else quoted,
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
But, in practice, there is."
 
M

Matt

A said:
I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market

I can't say that it is impossible. I can say that you won't be able to
do it alone.

Get started. You will learn a lot of useful stuff before you are
disillusioned.
 
J

John Roth

A Evans said:
I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I started
using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading articles here
and there I have read that Python is a more secure language than C. I also
read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python would not be
able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am by no means a
programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see Python as the
Holy Grail of programming languages

My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from scratch
and if so would it be plausible if possible

It depends on what you call "Python." The current Python
implementations (CPython, Jython and the so far incomplete
IronPython, PyPy and the unnamed version on Parrot)
all depend on an operating system and interpreter that provides
lots of services. (That's not quite true of PyPy, which is
well worth looking at.)

The central core of an operating system has to get down
and dirty with the hardware. Modern operating systems
are written in a very feature impoverished version of C
with occasional excursions into Assembler either for performance
or to get access to hardware that applications are prevented
from accessing.

You could undoubtedly create a language that would
compile efficiently and would still have many (if not all)
of the conveniences that Python provides, but it would
be a different language.

John Roth

Cheers

A python NewBie - Man I hate that term does anyone else

Likewise. I prefer novice. I consider Newbie to be patronizing.

JR.
 
S

slurper

A Evans said:
I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I
started using Python I have fallen in love with the language. Reading
articles here and there I have read that Python is a more secure language
than C. I also read another article (I can't remember which) saying Python
would not be able to develop an OS. I don't believe its true however. I am
by no means a programmer at this stage. But as I learn more and more I see
Python as the Holy Grail of programming languages

entirely crazy for production os, spending lots of time as a hobby project
but you're right about python...
 
A

A Evans

Hey thanks everyone for the replies I guess it would be quite the task to
embark on I would like to do it and I think I will over the next couple of
years as my skills improve and I start saving some cash to get it off the
ground and to get other programmers and planners involved.

Cool the Open Source operating system of the future is going to happen I am
going to make it happen

Its a long road from here

Cheers

Andrew
 
P

Paul Rubin

A Evans said:
Hey thanks everyone for the replies I guess it would be quite the task to
embark on I would like to do it and I think I will over the next couple of
years as my skills improve and I start saving some cash to get it off the
ground and to get other programmers and planners involved.

Don't put any cash into it. Just start up a Python window and see how
far you can go. You'll learn a lot whether you come up with anything
useful or not.
 
K

Karl A. Krueger

Paul Rubin said:
The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
possibly including reimplementing the language. You might look at
some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
what you'd be getting yourself into.

More recently, check out Movitz, which is a project implementing Lisp
directly on x86.

http://www.common-lisp.net/project/movitz/

This isn't actually Lisp OS, though -- it's a runtime on which an OS
could be built. A Python OS would require the same sort of layer,
presumably including a Python native-code compiler and hooks for
hardware access, so that a kernel could be written in Python.
 
P

Peter Maas

A said:
I have a question concerning the development of Python Based Operating
System. You see I have had sort of a dream to develop an Open Source
Operating System that would revolutionize the OS market and Since I started
using Python I have fallen in love with the language.

The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
CPU speaks Python :) so this is a level where you have to use
machine language. A viable definition could be an OS whose high
level functions are provided by Python scripts.

You could start with e.g. www.linuxfromscratch.org and write all
scripts in Python. Twisted (www.twistedmatrix.com) would probably
fit well to such a project because it provides a lot of network
services. I have no idea how deep you can go but I think that a
lot of C in between is necessary.

Mit freundlichen Gruessen,

Peter Maas
 
G

Greg Ewing

Peter said:
The first step would probably be to define a Python OS. Surely no
CPU speaks Python :)

Currently, no, but... *could* there be one?

In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got
to wondering what a machine designed from the ground up
to run Python code might be like. I got a vision of a
Python interpreter implemented in microcode, with a few
extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access, with an
OS written in Python running on top of it.

Would it run Python code any faster than an interpreter
running on an off-the-shelf CPU? Possibly not, but it's
not clear that it couldn't, either. In any case, it
would be a fun thing to design, and maybe even to build,
perhaps using an FPGA.

Anyone want to help?
 
P

Paul Rubin

S

SeeBelow

Paul said:
The idea is not completely insane, but you'd have to do a LOT of work,
possibly including reimplementing the language. You might look at
some of the Lisp Machine publications for inspiration and an idea of
what you'd be getting yourself into.

"not completely insane", but damn close to it! (IMO, of course, but
it's an educated opinion.)

Mitchell Timin

--
"Many are stubborn in pursuit of the path they have chosen, few in
pursuit of the goal." - Friedrich Nietzsche

http://annevolve.sourceforge.net is what I'm into nowadays.
Humans may write to me at this address: zenguy at shaw dot ca
 
T

Thomas Heller

Greg Ewing said:
Currently, no, but... *could* there be one?

In one of my wilder daydreaming moments recently, I got
to wondering what a machine designed from the ground up
to run Python code might be like. I got a vision of a
Python interpreter implemented in microcode, with a few
extra bytecodes for low-level hardware access, with an
OS written in Python running on top of it.

Would it run Python code any faster than an interpreter
running on an off-the-shelf CPU? Possibly not, but it's
not clear that it couldn't, either. In any case, it
would be a fun thing to design, and maybe even to build,
perhaps using an FPGA.

Maybe a MyHDL backend for PyPy ?

Thomas
 
L

Leif B. Kristensen

A Evans rose up and spake:
My questions would then be, is Python capable of creating an OS from
scratch and if so would it be plausible if possible

Apart from the somewhat insane idea of building yet another OS, you
should consider Niklaus Wirth's seminal ideas regarding Oberon, an
object-oriented OS. The freshest link I found right now after a very
cursory search on Google is this:

http://www.oberon.ethz.ch/native/

Why hasn't Wirth endorsed Python? Maybe the answer is here:

http://mail.python.org/pipermail/python-list/2002-May/105946.html

regards,
 

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