pythonOCC examples doesn't work?

Discussion in 'Python' started by Jayden, Sep 12, 2012.

  1. Jayden

    Jayden Guest

    I installed
    (1) pythonxy2.7.2.3 (with python2.7) and
    (2) pythonOCC-0.5-all-in-one.win32.py26
    on windows 7 64 bit computer.

    I try run pythonOCC examples in its example folder, such as the helloworld.py and got errors as follows:

    ImportantError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.

    The error come from the line of code:

    from OCC.BrepPrimAPI import *

    How to fix the error? Thanks a lot!!
     
    Jayden, Sep 12, 2012
    #1
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  2. Jayden

    Marco Nawijn Guest

    On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 6:02:14 AM UTC+2, Jayden wrote:
    > I installed
    >
    > (1) pythonxy2.7.2.3 (with python2.7) and
    >
    > (2) pythonOCC-0.5-all-in-one.win32.py26
    >
    > on windows 7 64 bit computer.
    >
    >
    >
    > I try run pythonOCC examples in its example folder, such as the helloworld.py and got errors as follows:
    >
    >
    >
    > ImportantError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
    >
    >
    >
    > The error come from the line of code:
    >
    >
    >
    > from OCC.BrepPrimAPI import *
    >
    >
    >
    > How to fix the error? Thanks a lot!!


    Hi Jayden,

    It has been some time ago that I used PythonOCC and I used it on Linux, so I cannot be of much help here. It sounds like you have to tell Windows where to look for the installed libraries (environment variables?). Anyhow, I recommend to post the question to the PythonOCC mailinglist. They are quite responsive.

    One last suggestion. OCC itself comes with a small utility called DRAWEXE. It is a tcl/tk program that can be used to play around with a lot of the functionality provided by OCC.

    Good luck!

    Marco
     
    Marco Nawijn, Sep 12, 2012
    #2
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  3. On 12/09/2012 05:02, Jayden wrote:
    > I installed
    > (1) pythonxy2.7.2.3 (with python2.7) and
    > (2) pythonOCC-0.5-all-in-one.win32.py26


    Can you safely mix these?

    > on windows 7 64 bit computer.
    >
    > I try run pythonOCC examples in its example folder, such as the helloworld.py and got errors as follows:
    >
    > ImportantError: DLL load failed: The specified module could not be found.
    >
    > The error come from the line of code:
    >
    > from OCC.BrepPrimAPI import *
    >
    > How to fix the error? Thanks a lot!!
    >


    See above, I hope, I don't actually know :)

    --
    Cheers.

    Mark Lawrence.
     
    Mark Lawrence, Sep 12, 2012
    #3
  4. On 12/09/2012 08:19, Dwight Hutto wrote:
    > So used to google, forgot to check the python docs:
    >
    > http://docs.python.org/faq/windows.html
    >
    > and this should be useful as well, which is from:
    >
    > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5030362/how-to-use-opencv-in-python
    >
    > "I suspect you have the same problem I've run into. If you have a 64-bit
    > version of Python, it cannot load 32-bit DLLs. OpenCV currently only ships
    > 32-bit binaries. If you want 64-bit .pyd and .dll files, you have to
    > compile them yourself. There are some
    > instructions<http://opencv.willowgarage.com/wiki/VisualC%2B%2B>on the
    > OpenCV Wiki, but it's not for the faint of heart. Expect to have a
    > substantial time investment.
    >
    > The easiest solution is to:
    >
    > 1. Uninstall 64-bit Python
    > 2. Install a 32-bit distribution.
    >
    > The PythonXY distribution includes pyopencv -- a good set of OpenCV hooks.
    > The only limitation is that it's 32-bit, so don't make plans to process
    > gigapixel astronomy data with it! ;)
    >
    > If you *must* have the 64-bit version, follow these
    > instructions<http://redkiing.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/opencv-and-visual-studio-2010-with-cmake/>to
    > get it OpenCV to compile with Visual Studio 2010. There's a discussion
    > on stackoverflow that describes building 64-bit apps with VC Express."
    >
    >
    > And again, check on the pywin mailing list
    >
    >


    All very impressive, but as Dennis Lee Bieber has pointed out and which
    I suspected there is a binary incompatibility between the OP's Python
    version and pythonOCC version. Others would be able to see this for
    themselves but you insist on sending email without context. Please
    don't do this.


    --
    Cheers.

    Mark Lawrence.
     
    Mark Lawrence, Sep 12, 2012
    #4
  5. Jayden

    Dwight Hutto Guest

    On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 3:37 AM, Mark Lawrence <> wrote:
    > On 12/09/2012 08:19, Dwight Hutto wrote:
    >>
    >> So used to google, forgot to check the python docs:
    >>
    >> http://docs.python.org/faq/windows.html
    >>
    >> and this should be useful as well, which is from:
    >>
    >> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5030362/how-to-use-opencv-in-python
    >>
    >> "I suspect you have the same problem I've run into. If you have a
    >> 64-bit
    >> version of Python, it cannot load 32-bit DLLs. OpenCV currently only ships
    >> 32-bit binaries. If you want 64-bit .pyd and .dll files, you have to
    >> compile them yourself. There are some
    >> instructions<http://opencv.willowgarage.com/wiki/VisualC%2B%2B>on the
    >>
    >> OpenCV Wiki, but it's not for the faint of heart. Expect to have a
    >> substantial time investment.
    >>
    >> The easiest solution is to:
    >>
    >> 1. Uninstall 64-bit Python
    >> 2. Install a 32-bit distribution.
    >>
    >>
    >> The PythonXY distribution includes pyopencv -- a good set of OpenCV hooks.
    >> The only limitation is that it's 32-bit, so don't make plans to process
    >> gigapixel astronomy data with it! ;)
    >>
    >> If you *must* have the 64-bit version, follow these
    >>
    >> instructions<http://redkiing.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/opencv-and-visual-studio-2010-with-cmake/>to
    >>
    >> get it OpenCV to compile with Visual Studio 2010. There's a discussion
    >> on stackoverflow that describes building 64-bit apps with VC Express."
    >>
    >>
    >> And again, check on the pywin mailing list
    >>
    >>

    >
    > All very impressive, but as Dennis Lee Bieber has pointed out and which I
    > suspected there is a binary incompatibility between the OP's Python version
    > and pythonOCC version.


    DIdn't see this, I was too busy helping the OP search for an answer,
    and educate us both at the same time.

    Others would be able to see this for themselves but
    > you insist on sending email without context. Please don't do this.



    How are my emails without context? I'm referring the OP to the docs,
    as well as posts related to their question. It goes to use google, and
    RTFM, and putting it politely to them.

    I could summarize, but they have to do the real reading. I'm not
    researching this, and if I was, I'd charge for the time. This is to
    show that things can get complex if you don't use google, or read the
    docs.

    Why does the OP keep asking here, when there are answers out there.
    especially on the pywin list, which Windows users are usually referred
    to.

    Please point out what's out of context. The links and references place
    it into context if the OP finds them useful, and I believe I searched
    well for them.

    Would the OP like to tell me I wasn't helpful? Because now they're
    probably on a search to figure out how to make these compatible, which
    means more questions, and more reading.

    Plus the OP said he's on 64. Read the quote from stackoverflow:


    "I suspect you have the same problem I've run into. If you have a 64-bit
    version of Python, it cannot load 32-bit DLLs. OpenCV currently only ships
    32-bit binaries. If you want 64-bit .pyd and .dll files, you have to
    compile them yourself. "

    A different program, but roughly the same in analogy, I do believe.

    And where in here was the OP referenced to the python docs on windows:

    >> http://docs.python.org/faq/windows.html


    Was that out of context as well?

    Let's not argue about this, I was pointing them to what I saw as the
    best possible resources to overcome his current problem, and it was
    all in context of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.

    --
    Best Regards,
    David Hutto
    CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
     
    Dwight Hutto, Sep 12, 2012
    #5
  6. Jayden

    jelle Guest

    You installed python 2.7 and expect a 2.6 module to work with it.
    That won't work. Finally, you need to install the OpenCasCade libs to be able to run PythonOCC.

    -jelle
     
    jelle, Sep 12, 2012
    #6
  7. Jayden

    Jayden Guest

    On Wednesday, September 12, 2012 11:12:55 AM UTC-4, jelle wrote:
    > You installed python 2.7 and expect a 2.6 module to work with it.
    >
    > That won't work. Finally, you need to install the OpenCasCade libs to be able to run PythonOCC.
    >
    >
    >
    > -jelle


    I think that is the reason. Thanks a lot!!
     
    Jayden, Sep 12, 2012
    #7
  8. Jayden

    Terry Reedy Guest

    > On 12/09/2012 08:19, Dwight Hutto wrote:

    >> The easiest solution is to:
    >>
    >> 1. Uninstall 64-bit Python


    No need to do this, at least not on windows.

    >> 2. Install a 32-bit distribution.


    in a separate directory. I have had both on my win7 machine so I could
    run (test) python code on both. One can put python-code-dir.pth in the
    site-packages directories of both.

    --
    Terry Jan Reedy
     
    Terry Reedy, Sep 12, 2012
    #8
  9. Dwight Hutto wrote:

    [snip]


    > On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 3:37 AM, Mark Lawrence <>
    > wrote:


    [snip]


    > Others would be able to see this for themselves but

    > > you insist on sending email without context. Please don't do this.

    >
    > How are my emails without context? I'm referring the OP to the docs,
    > as well as posts related to their question. It goes to use google, and
    > RTFM, and putting it politely to them.
    >



    I have noticed that you do not always quote what youare talking about.
    Sometimes I can guess or look at another messageand see what you
    are talking about, but not always. This list philosophy seems to be
    "quote what is relevant and trim what is not". Not on a
    "go lookup the previous message to find context".


    > I could summarize, but they have to do the real reading. I'm not
    > researching this, and if I was, I'd charge for the time. This is to
    > show that things can get complex if you don't use google, or read the
    > docs.



    Context is not the same as explaining absolutely everything.
    It means that I, the reader, can see *what* youare talking about
    and what you are responding *to*.

    I do agree with the stance not to spoon feed OP(s).


    >
    > Why does the OP keep asking here, when there are answers out there.
    > especially on the pywin list, which Windows users are usually referred
    > to.


    I was not aware that Windows users were "usually" referred anywhere.
    Most referrals are on a case-by-case basis as many problems or
    questions from Windows Python developers are Python questions and
    not specific to pywin.


    >
    > Please point outwhat's out of context. The links and references place
    > it into context if the OP finds them useful, and I believe I searched
    > well for them.
    >
    > Would the OP like to tell me I wasn't helpful? Because now they're
    > probably on a search to figure out how to make these compatible, which
    > means more questions, and more reading.


    Nobody is claiming you are not helpful. I appreciate your effort,
    I just do not always know what is going on in a thread especially
    if I see the thread jump to something I can contribute to but now have
    no context with which to help. Not to mention that the archive for
    this list is searchable. Your answer is much more useful for future
    searchers if you leave some context for someone reading this.

    [snip]


    >
    > Let's not argue about this, I was pointing them to what I saw as the
    > best possible resources to overcome his current problem, and it was
    > all in context of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.
    >


    It is in context of the "thread", but the context of the
    "conversation" was lost.


    This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
    conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
    securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
    confidentiality, legalprivilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
    available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
     
    Prasad, Ramit, Sep 14, 2012
    #9
  10. Jayden

    Dwight Hutto Guest

    On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Prasad, Ramit
    <> wrote:
    > Dwight Hutto wrote:
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 3:37 AM, Mark Lawrence <>
    >> wrote:

    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >> Others would be able to see this for themselves but
    >> > you insist on sending email without context. Please don't do this.

    >>
    >> How are my emails without context? I'm referring the OP to the docs,
    >> as well as posts related to their question. It goes to use google, and
    >> RTFM, and putting it politely to them.
    >>

    >
    >
    > I have noticed that you do not always quote what you are talking about.
    > Sometimes I can guess or look at another message and see what you
    > are talking about, but not always. This list philosophy seems to be
    > "quote what is relevant and trim what is not". Not on a
    > "go lookup the previous message to find context".
    >
    >> I could summarize, but they have to do the real reading. I'm not
    >> researching this, and if I was, I'd charge for the time. This is to
    >> show that things can get complex if you don't use google, or read the
    >> docs.

    >
    >
    > Context is not the same as explaining absolutely everything.
    > It means that I, the reader, can see *what* you are talking about
    > and what you are responding *to*.
    >
    > I do agree with the stance not to spoon feed OP(s).
    >
    >>
    >> Why does the OP keep asking here, when there are answers out there.
    >> especiThey would still need to process transactions like cash while offline, and they would also need access to their inventory.ally on the pywin list, which Windows users are usually referred
    >> to.

    >
    > I was not aware that Windows users were "usually" referred anywhere.
    > Most referrals are on a case-by-case basis as many problems or
    > questions from Windows Python developers are Python questions and
    > not specific to pywin.
    >
    >>
    >> Please point out what's out of context. The links and references place
    >> it into context if the OP finds them useful, and I believe I searched
    >> well for them.
    >>
    >> Would the OP like to tell me I wasn't helpful? Because now they're
    >> probably on a search to figure out how to make these compatible, which
    >> means more questions, and more reading.

    >
    > Nobody is claiming you are not helpful. I appreciate your effort,
    > I just do not always know what is going on in a thread especially
    > if I see the thread jump to something I can contribute to but now have
    > no context with which to help. Not to mention that the archive for
    > this list is searchable. Your answer is much more useful for future
    > searchers if you leave some context for someone reading this.
    >
    > [snip]
    >
    >>
    >> Let's not argue about this, I was pointing them to what I saw as the
    >> best possible resources to overcome his current problem, and it was
    >> all in context of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.
    >>

    >
    > It is in context of the "thread", but the context of the
    > "conversation" was lost.
    >
    >
    > This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
    > conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
    > securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
    > confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
    > available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list


    Your point is taken. Most of the time, if it's in an in line response
    I would write the email line by line, with the referenced text shown
    above my response.

    However, when it seems like a conversation, I just trim the above, and
    respond. That's how I view an e-mail, like an ongoing conversation.

    >From now on, I'll leave the mailing I'm responding to above, and

    delete the point's I'm not talking about, which is about what I
    usually do.

    So being attacked about no context(which was an attack out of context,
    based on a few messages one night), when the whole conversation is in
    the topic reader/gmail/etc seemed a little ignorant to reading
    through. All he had to do was look back up to the email s just above
    my response, and see, or read just through mine, not read everyone.

    But anyway, I'll be more informative as to exactly what I was
    referencing, instead of treating it like an ongoing conversation where
    everyone was present, and paying attention to the whole of the topic.


    --
    Best Regards,
    David Hutto
    CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
     
    Dwight Hutto, Sep 14, 2012
    #10
  11. Jayden

    Dwight Hutto Guest

    On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 9:11 PM, Dwight Hutto <> wrote:
    > On Thu, Sep 13, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Prasad, Ramit
    > <> wrote:
    >> Dwight Hutto wrote:
    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >>> On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 3:37 AM, Mark Lawrence <>
    >>> wrote:

    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >>> Others would be able to see this for themselves but
    >>> > you insist on sending email without context. Please don't do this.
    >>>
    >>> How are my emails without context? I'm referring the OP to the docs,
    >>> as well as posts related to their question. It goes to use google, and
    >>> RTFM, and putting it politely to them.
    >>>

    >>
    >>
    >> I have noticed that you do not always quote what you are talking about.
    >> Sometimes I can guess or look at another message and see what you
    >> are talking about, but not always. This list philosophy seems to be
    >> "quote what is relevant and trim what is not". Not on a
    >> "go lookup the previous message to find context".
    >>
    >>> I could summarize, but they have to do the real reading. I'm not
    >>> researching this, and if I was, I'd charge for the time. This is to
    >>> show that things can get complex if you don't use google, or read the
    >>> docs.

    >>
    >>
    >> Context is not the same as explaining absolutely everything.
    >> It means that I, the reader, can see *what* you are talking about
    >> and what you are responding *to*.
    >>
    >> I do agree with the stance not to spoon feed OP(s).
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Why does the OP keep asking here, when there are answers out there.
    >>> especiThey would still need to process transactions like cash while offline, and they would also need access to their inventory.ally on the pywin list, which Windows users are usually referred
    >>> to.

    >>
    >> I was not aware that Windows users were "usually" referred anywhere.
    >> Most referrals are on a case-by-case basis as many problems or
    >> questions from Windows Python developers are Python questions and
    >> not specific to pywin.
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Please point out what's out of context. The links and references place
    >>> it into context if the OP finds them useful, and I believe I searched
    >>> well for them.
    >>>
    >>> Would the OP like to tell me I wasn't helpful? Because now they're
    >>> probably on a search to figure out how to make these compatible, which
    >>> means more questions, and more reading.

    >>
    >> Nobody is claiming you are not helpful. I appreciate your effort,
    >> I just do not always know what is going on in a thread especially
    >> if I see the thread jump to something I can contribute to but now have
    >> no context with which to help. Not to mention that the archive for
    >> this list is searchable. Your answer is much more useful for future
    >> searchers if you leave some context for someone reading this.
    >>
    >> [snip]
    >>
    >>>
    >>> Let's not argue about this, I was pointing them to what I saw as the
    >>> best possible resources to overcome his current problem, and it was
    >>> all in context of the conversation as far as I'm concerned.
    >>>

    >>
    >> It is in context of the "thread", but the context of the
    >> "conversation" was lost.
    >>
    >>
    >> This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
    >> conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
    >> securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
    >> confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
    >> available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
    >> --
    >> http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

    >
    > Your point is taken. Most of the time, if it's in an in line response
    > I would write the email line by line, with the referenced text shown
    > above my response.
    >
    > However, when it seems like a conversation, I just trim the above, and
    > respond. That's how I view an e-mail, like an ongoing conversation.
    >
    > From now on, I'll leave the mailing I'm responding to above, and
    > delete the point's I'm not talking about, which is about what I
    > usually do.
    >
    > So being attacked about no context(which was an attack out of context,
    > based on a few messages one night), when the whole conversation is in
    > the topic reader/gmail/etc seemed a little ignorant to reading
    > through. All he had to do was look back up to the email s just above
    > my response, and see, or read just through mine, not read everyone.
    >
    > But anyway, I'll be more informative as to exactly what I was
    > referencing, instead of treating it like an ongoing conversation where
    > everyone was present, and paying attention to the whole of the topic.
    >
    >
    > --
    > Best Regards,
    > David Hutto
    > CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com


    And if you look at the above in gmail, you can see the ...'s that when
    not clicked, won't show some of the responses I leave just above, and
    it clips my signature line as well.

    --
    Best Regards,
    David Hutto
    CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
     
    Dwight Hutto, Sep 14, 2012
    #11
  12. On Thu, 13 Sep 2012 21:11:58 -0400, Dwight Hutto
    <> declaimed the following in
    gmane.comp.python.general:

    >
    > Your point is taken. Most of the time, if it's in an in line response
    > I would write the email line by line, with the referenced text shown
    > above my response.
    >
    > However, when it seems like a conversation, I just trim the above, and
    > respond. That's how I view an e-mail, like an ongoing conversation.
    >


    If it were a private email -- you to the OP -- that would be
    reasonable; they should know what they'd asked.

    However... This is a cross-linked Usenet <> mailing list, and Usenet
    does not guarantee that all posts will arrive in logical order... It is
    possible that once could see your response BEFORE the OP's post has
    propagated to the same Usenet server.

    http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1855.txt Section three applies.
    rfc> - If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure
    you
    rfc> summarize the original at the top of the message, or include
    just
    rfc> enough text of the original to give a context. This will
    make
    rfc> sure readers understand when they start to read your
    response.
    rfc> Since NetNews, especially, is proliferated by distributing
    the
    rfc> postings from one host to another, it is possible to see a
    rfc> response to a message before seeing the original. Giving
    context
    rfc> helps everyone. But do not include the entire original!
    --
    Wulfraed Dennis Lee Bieber AF6VN
    HTTP://wlfraed.home.netcom.com/
     
    Dennis Lee Bieber, Sep 14, 2012
    #12
  13. On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:14 AM, Dwight Hutto <> wrote:
    > [over a hundred quoted lines snipped]
    > And if you look at the above in gmail, you can see the ...'s that when
    > not clicked, won't show some of the responses I leave just above, and
    > it clips my signature line as well.


    That's a Gmail feature, and a sop to people who can't take a moment to
    trim quoted text. Taking your above post as an example, there were
    (according to my calculation) 111 lines of text that had already been
    sent, being _re_sent in your post.

    Not everyone uses Gmail. And not everyone runs off 100Mbit internet
    connections. And even if everyone were to use Gmail off 100Mbit
    internet connections, I would still recommend trimming the text,
    because Gmail gives you precisely two options: all the way collapsed,
    or all the way expanded. If I want to read more context, I get _all_
    the context. That's still not all that useful.

    Right while you make a post is the best time to decide how much
    context is needed. Spend just a few seconds thinking about how much to
    trim, and you can make things easier for everyone who reads your post,
    whether it be on python-list, comp.lang.python, or one of several
    web-accessible archives. And remember, this is for posterity, so be
    honest. How do you feel? Interesting...

    ChrisA
     
    Chris Angelico, Sep 14, 2012
    #13
  14. Jayden

    Dwight Hutto Guest

    > honest. How do you feel? Interesting...
    >

    Um, I guess like an inconsiderate bandwidth hog, but from now on I'll
    trim more text.

    First it was too little, and now it's too much.

    I just tend to cut out some or all depending on the scope of the conversation.

    If I just hit reply all, and send it out, it's not intentionally to
    use all of the text, and utilize the extra space, it's just a
    response.

    If the conversation is kind of just a few people, then I trim pretty
    much everything, which apparently set a guy name mark off, who I was
    polite to, but I'm not going to get slammed for a few simple posting
    mistakes, and more than likely a few of his aliases, or the group he
    tends to cheer up with.

    It's just a mailing list, lighten up because mistakes in posting will
    happen, even by accident.

    --
    Best Regards,
    David Hutto
    CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
     
    Dwight Hutto, Sep 14, 2012
    #14
  15. On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 5:49 PM, Dwight Hutto <> wrote:
    >> honest. How do you feel? Interesting...
    >>

    > Um, I guess like an inconsiderate bandwidth hog, but from now on I'll
    > trim more text.


    What you may have missed was that that was a quote from Princess
    Bride. Don't take it personally :)

    > First it was too little, and now it's too much.
    >
    > I just tend to cut out some or all depending on the scope of the conversation.
    >
    > If I just hit reply all, and send it out, it's not intentionally to
    > use all of the text, and utilize the extra space, it's just a
    > response.


    It's all a question of courtesy, and there's no hard-and-fast rules.
    But as a simple rule of thumb, assume that your post is going to be
    read completely without any surrounding context; will it be
    comprehensible?

    > If the conversation is kind of just a few people, then I trim pretty
    > much everything, which apparently set a guy name mark off, who I was
    > polite to, but I'm not going to get slammed for a few simple posting
    > mistakes, and more than likely a few of his aliases, or the group he
    > tends to cheer up with.


    There's actually no such thing as a conversation of just a few people,
    on a big list like this. Sure, there may be only a few contributors,
    but there are thousands - maybe millions - of readers.

    You're not being slammed, though. What you're seeing is a community
    doing its best to maintain itself. If we all sit silently, wishing our
    hardest that everyone would quote nicely, cite nicely, post without
    trolling, and be helpful, will it happen? (Those familiar with the
    Bible may note a similarity with some comments in the epistle of
    James.) There are two ways to ensure that the community upholds its
    standards: Kicking out everyone who doesn't measure up, or explaining
    to people and inviting them to participate. The first is a great way
    to have a tiny community with no growth. The second... is what you're
    seeing. :)

    Of course, there's a third option, which is to simply ignore
    everything and try to get on with life. That basically amounts to
    kicking _yourself_ out of the community, because you'll quickly give
    up on a forum in which everyone posts sloppily. And I'm sure you don't
    want all the experts to do that, because you're then left with a
    "blind leading the blind" mailing list... not particularly conducive
    to good code!

    > It's just a mailing list, lighten up because mistakes in posting will
    > happen, even by accident.


    Accidents are understandable, but getting defensive doesn't help :)
    Generally, people don't speak up until there've been several similar
    instances.

    ChrisA
     
    Chris Angelico, Sep 14, 2012
    #15
  16. Dwight Hutto wrote:

    > Chris Angelico wrote:

    > > honest. How doyou feel? Interesting...
    > >

    > Um, I guess like an inconsiderate bandwidth hog, but from now on I'll
    > trim more text.
    >
    > First it was too little, and now it's too much.


    It is a fine line to walk and nobody does it perfectly all the time.
    We just attempt our best.


    > I just tend to cut out some or all depending on the scope of the conversation.
    >
    > If I just hit reply all, and send it out, it's not intentionally to
    > use all of the text, and utilize the extra space, it's just a
    > response.
    >
    > If the conversation is kind of just a few people, then I trim pretty
    > much everything, which apparently set a guy name mark off, who I was
    > polite to, but I'm not going to get slammed for a few simple posting
    > mistakes, and more than likely a few of his aliases, or the grouphe
    > tends to cheer up with.


    Sorry, I did not mean to "slam" you by any means. I was just
    notifying you of the list's commonly agreed upon etiquette and
    requesting future posts to attempt to adhere to that.


    >
    > It's just a mailing list, lighten up because mistakes in posting will
    > happen, even by accident.
    >


    It's just a mailing list, lighten up because a few people trying
    to help improve your communication to the rest of the group
    maycome off unintentionally as being "slammed" by the community. :)

    This email is confidential and subject to important disclaimers and
    conditions including on offers for the purchase or sale of
    securities, accuracy and completeness of information, viruses,
    confidentiality, legal privilege, and legal entity disclaimers,
    available at http://www.jpmorgan.com/pages/disclosures/email.
     
    Prasad, Ramit, Sep 14, 2012
    #16
  17. Jayden

    Dwight Hutto Guest

    On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 6:51 PM, Prasad, Ramit
    <> wrote:
    > Dwight Hutto wrote:
    >> Chris Angelico wrote:
    >> > honest. How do you feel? Interesting...
    >> >

    >> Um, I guess like an inconsiderate bandwidth hog, but from now on I'll
    >> trim more text.
    >>
    >> First it was too little, and now it's too much.

    >
    > It is a fine line to walk and nobody does it perfectly all the time.
    > We just attempt our best.
    >python docs interpolation
    >> I just tend to cut out some or all depending on the scope of the conversation.
    >>
    >> If I just hit reply all, and send it out, it's not intentionally topython docs interpolation
    >> use all of the text, and utilize the extra space, it's just a
    >> response.
    >>
    >> If the conversation is kind of just a few people, then I trim pretty
    >> much everything, which apppython docs interpolationarently set a guy name mark off, who I was
    >> polite to, but I'm not going to get slammed for a few simple posting
    >> mistakes, and more than likely a few of his aliases, or the group he
    >> tends to cheer up with.

    >
    > Sorry, I did not mean to "slam" you by any means. I was just
    > notifying you of the list's commonly agreed upon etiquette and
    > requesting future posts to attempt to adhere to that.
    >
    >>
    >> It's just a mailing list, lighten up because mistakes in posting will
    >> happen, even by accident.
    >>

    >
    > It's just a mailing list, lighten up because a few people trying
    > to help improve your communication to the rest of the group
    > may come off unintentionally as being "slammed" by the community. :)
    >

    That's no problem, But some suported ad some opposed, it's a
    democracy, but a dictatorship by the moderators. How much did I err in
    their opinion of stating my opinion, in relation to the statistical
    whole?

    --
    Best Regards,
    David Hutto
    CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
     
    Dwight Hutto, Sep 15, 2012
    #17
  18. On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Dwight Hutto <> wrote:
    > That's no problem, But some suported ad some opposed, it's a
    > democracy, but a dictatorship by the moderators. How much did I err in
    > their opinion of stating my opinion, in relation to the statistical
    > whole?


    Actually, I've not seen any moderatorial action on this list. Savoynet
    is as you describe, a monarchy whose head but seldom exercises power;
    python-list/c.l.p is an anarchy - or, if you like, a true democracy.
    Not a representative democracy where we all get to vote, but we all
    individually have the power to kick someone out - it's called a
    killfile. The more people you annoy, the more people won't hear you
    any more.

    ChrisA
     
    Chris Angelico, Sep 15, 2012
    #18
  19. Jayden

    Dwight Hutto Guest

    On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Chris Angelico <> wrote:
    > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Dwight Hutto <> wrote:
    >> That's no problem, But some suported ad some opposed, it's a
    >> democracy, but a dictatorship by the moderators. How much did I err in
    >> their opinion of stating my opinion, in relation to the statistical
    >> whole?

    >
    > Actually, I've not seen any moderatorial action on this list. Savoynet


    Alan Gauld quotes, "Putting on my moderator's hat", sometimes.

    > is as you describe, a monarchy whose head but seldom exercises power;


    I think it's Rossenbom(or whoever the creator of the interpreter
    written in C is), "who says benevolent dictator for life"

    > python-list/c.l.p is an anarchy - or, if you like, a true democracy.


    Both, depending on whether you're a freestylist, or a pythonista who
    follows versions.

    > Not a representative democracy where we all get to vote, but we all
    > individually have the power to kick someone out


    - it's called a
    > killfile.


    No, only the individual can killfile, then they miss the point of
    someone they should be listening to, because they kill filed for
    propaganda, and not an actual cause(to join a group).

    The more people you annoy, the more people won't hear you
    > any more.


    Annoy, how, with truth and honesty, then go away, and kill file me
    with the few who are ignorant of the fact I speak the truth.
    >


    --
    Best Regards,
    David Hutto
    CEO: http://www.hitwebdevelopment.com
     
    Dwight Hutto, Sep 15, 2012
    #19
  20. Jayden

    MRAB Guest

    On 2012-09-15 05:40, Dwight Hutto wrote:
    > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 11:53 PM, Chris Angelico <> wrote:
    >> On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Dwight Hutto <> wrote:
    >>> That's no problem, But some suported ad some opposed, it's a
    >>> democracy, but a dictatorship by the moderators. How much did I err in
    >>> their opinion of stating my opinion, in relation to the statistical
    >>> whole?

    >>
    >> Actually, I've not seen any moderatorial action on this list. Savoynet

    >
    > Alan Gauld quotes, "Putting on my moderator's hat", sometimes.
    >
    >> is as you describe, a monarchy whose head but seldom exercises power;

    >
    > I think it's Rossenbom(or whoever the creator of the interpreter
    > written in C is), "who says benevolent dictator for life"
    >

    [snip]
    You don't know the name of the BDFL? I'm appalled! :)
     
    MRAB, Sep 15, 2012
    #20
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