Q Wysiwyg => xhtml - html - asp

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Morgan Ohlson, Jul 18, 2004.

  1. I the field of wysiwyg web editors it seems that one has to know some about
    straight html-programming anyway.

    Among the wysiwyg applications it looks like there are 2 major highroads.
    A) aimed for making classical pages with text and pictures 90-100% floating
    (100% resizable fonts).
    B) modern style locked objects and often non-scalable fonts.

    1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?

    2. Are there any "The most natural step after html" ? What?

    Morgan O.
     
    Morgan Ohlson, Jul 18, 2004
    #1
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  2. Morgan Ohlson

    rf Guest

    Morgan Ohlson wrote:

    > I the field of wysiwyg web editors


    Aaaarrrrrg. The worst thing you could possibly use.

    > it seems that one has to know some about
    > straight html-programming anyway.


    HTML is not a programming language, it is a markup language. That is what
    the M means in HTML.

    And yes, you should know all about HTML, plus CSS.

    > Among the wysiwyg applications it looks like there are 2 major highroads.


    Nope. Lowroads if anything.

    When building web pages there is no such thing as wysiwyg, there is only
    w*y*siwyhtyvgbsnd, that is: What *You* See Is What You Hope Your Viewer Gets
    But She Never Does.

    Her canvas is not the same as yours. Her browser is not the same as yours.
    Her fonts are not the same as yours. Her "resolution" is not the same as
    yours. Her colours are not the same as yours. Her [insert whatever comes to
    mind] is also not the same as yours.

    > A) aimed for making classical pages with text and pictures 90-100%

    floating
    > (100% resizable fonts).


    Er, why 90%. Why not nothing, that way I get to view your page using *my*
    preferences.

    > B) modern style locked objects and often non-scalable fonts.


    Web != desktop publishing.

    > 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    > for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?


    Notepad. Then progress up to an editor that does syntax highlighting but
    does not "invent" the HTML for you. All wysiwyg editors get is badly wrong.
    >
    > 2. Are there any "The most natural step after html" ? What?


    Er, no. I think.

    --
    Cheers
    Richard.
     
    rf, Jul 18, 2004
    #2
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  3. Morgan Ohlson

    SpaceGirl Guest

    Morgan Ohlson wrote:

    > I the field of wysiwyg web editors it seems that one has to know some about
    > straight html-programming anyway.
    >
    > Among the wysiwyg applications it looks like there are 2 major highroads.
    > A) aimed for making classical pages with text and pictures 90-100% floating
    > (100% resizable fonts).
    > B) modern style locked objects and often non-scalable fonts.
    >
    > 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    > for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?
    >
    > 2. Are there any "The most natural step after html" ? What?
    >
    > Morgan O.


    I'd suggest Dreamweaver, but ONLY if you know HTML inside out - like any
    other psuedo WYSIWYG IDE these things are all relative and and very easy
    to quickly get into the habit of generating crappy code.

    While RF claims HTML isn't a programming language, web design does
    INCLUDE programming, so an IDE that supports the major languages is also
    useful (at the very least for syntax checking).

    As much as the sites you make needing to be flexible, so do you as a
    designer - there are no hard and fast rules for 'how' a web site should
    look and feel; for example there are places where fixed fonts / fixed
    designs are applicable, and other times where you should avoid it.

    A 'designed' site would probably usually start off inside Photoshop.

    --


    x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

    # lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
    # remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
     
    SpaceGirl, Jul 18, 2004
    #3
  4. Morgan Ohlson

    el m Guest

    rf wrote:

    >> 2. Are there any "The most natural step after html" ? What?

    >
    > Er, no. I think.
    >

    As soon as the op learns a little (X)HTML, a look
    at server side goodies is in order. CGI, Perl, and PHP.
    And learn how to use HTML Tidy, the online validator,
    and preprocessors.
     
    el m, Jul 18, 2004
    #4
  5. Morgan Ohlson

    Rob Collyer Guest

    I would have to say, for the best results, and the most controllable and
    updateable, then just go for a mix of XHTML, CSS and notepad!

    I would steer clear from wysiwyg editors (and i do) because they often seem
    to reate the desired effect (for sure) but they often produce far more code
    than is nessesary (referred to as Tag soup), and on top of that, the designs
    created are seldom cross browser compatible.
    --
    Rob Collyer - www.webforumz.com
    Web design and development forums for Free help, advice,
    tips, and website critique by professional designers and developers.



    "Morgan Ohlson" <> wrote in message
    news:rlefyokgwbjb$.1i3wo6r7ul2ps$...
    > I the field of wysiwyg web editors it seems that one has to know some

    about
    > straight html-programming anyway.
    >
    > Among the wysiwyg applications it looks like there are 2 major highroads.
    > A) aimed for making classical pages with text and pictures 90-100%

    floating
    > (100% resizable fonts).
    > B) modern style locked objects and often non-scalable fonts.
    >
    > 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    > for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?
    >
    > 2. Are there any "The most natural step after html" ? What?
    >
    > Morgan O.
     
    Rob Collyer, Jul 18, 2004
    #5
  6. Morgan Ohlson

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <rlefyokgwbjb$.1i3wo6r7ul2ps$>,
    says...
    > I the field of wysiwyg web editors it seems that one has to know some about
    > straight html-programming anyway.


    Of course.

    > Among the wysiwyg applications it looks like there are 2 major highroads.
    > A) aimed for making classical pages with text and pictures 90-100% floating
    > (100% resizable fonts).
    > B) modern style locked objects and often non-scalable fonts.


    They are editors. The same way Word does not write the great American
    novel for you, a WYSIWYG can not create a great site. Both are tools
    to help you with your task.

    > 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    > for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?


    Any of them do all that.

    > 2. Are there any "The most natural step after html" ? What?


    CSS, client scripting, server scripting. But in reality they are all
    in the same package.
    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
     
    Webcastmaker, Jul 18, 2004
    #6
  7. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:50:07 -0400, Webcastmaker wrote:

    > In article <rlefyokgwbjb$.1i3wo6r7ul2ps$>,
    > says...
    >> I the field of wysiwyg web editors it seems that one has to know some about
    >> straight html-programming anyway.

    >
    > Of course.
    >
    >> Among the wysiwyg applications it looks like there are 2 major highroads.
    >> A) aimed for making classical pages with text and pictures 90-100% floating
    >> (100% resizable fonts).
    >> B) modern style locked objects and often non-scalable fonts.

    >
    > They are editors. The same way Word does not write the great American
    > novel for you, a WYSIWYG can not create a great site. Both are tools
    > to help you with your task.


    ....please...

    I think everyone so far misses my intention here.

    What I'm saying is that ~wysiwyg editors are not simply wysiwyg editors.

    It looks like wysiwyg editors try to make completly different things
    compared to each other.

    Some (B above) work like object oriented graphic packs (or dtp if you like)
    and other more like a wordprocessors - html-exporting tools (thats A) where
    wordwrapping and floating is the most important part..

    I hope someone who undertand my meaning takes time to anwer this. So far I
    only have recognised the phenomenon. I have not understould if it has a
    technical background in the code produced (dynamic or non-dynamic) or if it'
    sjust a matter of user interface and and ideology from the one who made the
    editor?

    >
    >> 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    >> for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?

    >
    > Any of them do all that.


    If including also some larger free apps I think you are wrong. I don't think
    they do.


    Morgan O.
     
    Morgan Ohlson, Jul 18, 2004
    #7
  8. Morgan Ohlson

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <74lsnhstag2c.14d25q0xlf591$>,
    says...
    > >> 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    > >> for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?

    > > Any of them do all that.

    > If including also some larger free apps I think you are wrong. I don't think
    > they do.


    They are "editors" they all produce the EXACT same HTML with floating
    and resizable stuff....

    Are you asking which is the BEST wysiwyg editor? Well that is
    personal preference.
    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
     
    Webcastmaker, Jul 18, 2004
    #8
  9. Morgan Ohlson

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Morgan Ohlson wrote:

    > 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    > for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?


    Go for Mozilla Composer. <http://www.mozilla.org/>

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
     
    Toby Inkster, Jul 18, 2004
    #9
  10. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 11:57:47 -0400, Webcastmaker wrote:

    > In article <74lsnhstag2c.14d25q0xlf591$>,
    > says...
    >>>> 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    >>>> for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?
    >>> Any of them do all that.

    >> If including also some larger free apps I think you are wrong. I don't think
    >> they do.

    >
    > They are "editors" they all produce the EXACT same HTML with floating
    > and resizable stuff....
    >
    > Are you asking which is the BEST wysiwyg editor? Well that is
    > personal preference.


    Thats great!
    What is the difference between them? (seen to the code /markings they
    produce)
    .....is it some kind of basic technical difference between them?

    Are there any wysiwyg editor that are known to produce more dynamic outputs?


    Morgan O.
     
    Morgan Ohlson, Jul 18, 2004
    #10
  11. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 17:47:39 +0100, Toby Inkster wrote:

    > Morgan Ohlson wrote:
    >
    >> 1. I like the floating and resizable stuff best. What should I then look
    >> for in intutive and powerful wysiwyg editor?

    >
    > Go for Mozilla Composer. <http://www.mozilla.org/>


    The NVU is built on it, isn't it? ...is NVU better /worse?

    Morgan O.
     
    Morgan Ohlson, Jul 18, 2004
    #11
  12. Morgan Ohlson

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <159pu4y8ockzq$>,
    says...
    > > Are you asking which is the BEST wysiwyg editor? Well that is
    > > personal preference.

    >
    > Thats great!
    > What is the difference between them? (seen to the code /markings they
    > produce)
    > ....is it some kind of basic technical difference between them?
    > Are there any wysiwyg editor that are known to produce more dynamic outputs?


    Let me go visit all the home pages for the different editors. I will
    download the demos, test them, and create a functionality / feature
    caparison report for you. Will Wednesday be soon enough for me to
    get the report to you?

    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
     
    Webcastmaker, Jul 18, 2004
    #12
  13. Morgan Ohlson

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Morgan Ohlson wrote:

    > The NVU is built on [Mozilla Composer], isn't it? ...is NVU better
    > /worse?


    I've not used Nvu, so couldn't comment. I would imagine though that any
    improvements in one would be fed back into the other. (Such is the nature
    of Open Source sister projects like this.)

    The Mozilla browser however includes a very useful DOM inspector and
    Javascript debugger, so access to the whole Mozilla suite is an advantage
    of Mozilla over Nvu.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Now Playing ~ ./counting_crows/hard_candy_uk_edition/07_miami.ogg
     
    Toby Inkster, Jul 18, 2004
    #13
  14. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 20:54:37 +0100, Toby Inkster wrote:

    > Morgan Ohlson wrote:
    >
    >> The NVU is built on [Mozilla Composer], isn't it? ...is NVU better
    >> /worse?

    >
    > I've not used Nvu, so couldn't comment. I would imagine though that any
    > improvements in one would be fed back into the other. (Such is the nature
    > of Open Source sister projects like this.)
    >
    > The Mozilla browser however includes a very useful DOM inspector and
    > Javascript debugger, so access to the whole Mozilla suite is an advantage
    > of Mozilla over Nvu.


    Thanks for straight answers!

    Morgan O.
     
    Morgan Ohlson, Jul 19, 2004
    #14
  15. On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 14:33:50 -0400, Webcastmaker wrote:

    > In article <159pu4y8ockzq$>,
    > says...
    >>> Are you asking which is the BEST wysiwyg editor? Well that is
    >>> personal preference.

    >>
    >> Thats great!
    >> What is the difference between them? (seen to the code /markings they
    >> produce)
    >> ....is it some kind of basic technical difference between them?
    >> Are there any wysiwyg editor that are known to produce more dynamic outputs?

    >
    > Let me go visit all the home pages for the different editors. I will
    > download the demos, test them, and create a functionality / feature
    > caparison report for you. Will Wednesday be soon enough for me to
    > get the report to you?


    If someone has a klue about the answer please take a minute to answer.

    Morgan O.
     
    Morgan Ohlson, Jul 19, 2004
    #15
  16. Morgan Ohlson

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <1eam7x8g43m5p$.swe0r6fv8vpt$>,
    says...
    > > Let me go visit all the home pages for the different editors. I will
    > > download the demos, test them, and create a functionality / feature
    > > caparison report for you. Will Wednesday be soon enough for me to
    > > get the report to you?

    > If someone has a klue about the answer please take a minute to answer.


    Do you want someone to pre-chew your food too? Take the initiative
    and search google for WYSIWYG HTML editors.
    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
     
    Webcastmaker, Jul 19, 2004
    #16
  17. On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 09:27:58 -0400, Webcastmaker wrote:

    > In article <1eam7x8g43m5p$.swe0r6fv8vpt$>,
    > says...
    >>> Let me go visit all the home pages for the different editors. I will
    >>> download the demos, test them, and create a functionality / feature
    >>> caparison report for you. Will Wednesday be soon enough for me to
    >>> get the report to you?

    >> If someone has a klue about the answer please take a minute to answer.

    >
    > Do you want someone to pre-chew your food too? Take the initiative
    > and search google for WYSIWYG HTML editors.


    Sometimes there are people who know a lot obout the topic, i.e.
    characteristics of some of the best wysiwyg-webeditors and perhaps like to
    share the knowledge.

    I would be very greatful for that. It could save me, and others many
    valuable hours.

    Simple as that. One could say it's some kind of internet basics.

    Do you understand?


    Morgan O.
     
    Morgan Ohlson, Jul 19, 2004
    #17
  18. Morgan Ohlson

    Webcastmaker Guest

    In article <1ocxk285ajs6a$>,
    says...
    > Sometimes there are people who know a lot obout the topic, i.e.
    > characteristics of some of the best wysiwyg-webeditors and perhaps like to
    > share the knowledge.
    > I would be very greatful for that. It could save me, and others many
    > valuable hours.


    Again, search google, you are not the first person (this week even)
    to ask which editor is best. Here, I will even type it for you:

    http://groups.google.com/groups?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
    &q=best+wysiwyg+editor+html

    All you have to do is mind the URL wrapping. Now read away at
    everything that can be said about WYSIWYG html editors.

    > Simple as that. One could say it's some kind of internet basics.

    or laziness on your part.

    > Do you understand?

    I do, but then I already made my choice for an editor based on
    conversations that have been repeated over and over in the forum.

    --
    WebcastMaker
    The easiest and most affordable way to create
    Web casts, or put presentations on the Web.
    www.webentations.com
     
    Webcastmaker, Jul 19, 2004
    #18
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