qooxdoo trouble

[David Mark]

Just post. This NG is not really up to snuff, and deals mostly with
stuff I let qooxdoo worry about.

Up to snuff? You are letting qooxdoo "worry" about something that
they are clearly unable to deal with when the answers are right under
your nose here.

Cool, I'll check out your code.

Mind the copyright. Only the My Library add-on is licensed. But as
usual, I'm sure large tracts of it will eventually make its way into
projects like qooxdoo, Dojo, jQuery, etc. Why people want to wait
years for such transformations is beyond me.

You might recall qooxdoo allows one to embed raw Html/js.

You really are hypnotized. Qooxdoo "allows" you to use HTML/JS in a
browser in the same way that jQuery "allows" QSA and event delegation.

No, "one problem after another" was jQuery, Dojo, and YUI and the code
was impossible to follow.

The Qooxdoo project is obviously of a similarly incompetent nature.

qooxdoo actually started off with a problem
(over busy datagrid (does My Library have a datagrid?)) which was
insanely easy to fix and has only occasionally had issues while bringing
a rather hefty desktop application to the Web:

As for "datagrid", read this thread:-

http://groups.google.com/group/my-library-general-discussion/browse_thread/thread/4636cecd90eab742

Search for "grid" if you have a short attention span.

 

[David Mark]

The question is what key event application is made available to the
client in the general case.

No, the question is how the qooxdoo developers could be so ignorant
about such a basic and critical interface.

I'll check it out now that I have the thing
somewhat gracefully coping whether or not TeX fonts are installed.

ISTM you spend a lot of time checking things out that were supposed to
be handled automatically by the qooxdoo scripts. What does that tell
you?

...and working:

   http://teamalgebra.com/

As many have told you, it's working about as well as could be expected
(abominably). Just because it appears to be snappy to you doesn't
mean it is to the rest of the world.

Go figure. By the way, I have not even made an effort yet to optimize
the round-trips, the editor is so responsive.

See above.

You seem unable to absorb the fact that this is an Algebra tutoring
platform, not a type-touching trainer. But I am happy to remind you as
needed.

You seem unable to absorb anything. Your 9 round-the-clock
"professional engineers" can't even handle keyboard input in Opera;
instead, they gave up years ago. What does that tell you?

Generally you are right: libraries are more trouble than they are worth.
qooxdoo and jsMath are clear exceptions.

Only in your head.

I guess not since you are pushing a competitor library /and/ selling
your services as a qooxdoo developer.

I am not "pushing" a competitor. Who competes for freebie downloads?
I am pushing the fact that I've got the only successful game in town
when it comes to comprehensive GP libraries. It's not even a horse
race.

And I am not a qooxdoo developer, nor have I ever mentioned anything
about such services.

 

[RobG]

David Mark wrote:
//teamalgebra.com/[/url]
Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard...
That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app.
When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab],
That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic
navigation.  They should persist their state though (e.g. with
cookies, local storage, etc.)
I get
"G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut).
And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site.
Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to
track them down.
Let's see what the browser/engine is first.

I already told you.

They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing?  Some team
you've got there.  

Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very
popular in Europe.  Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it
as an IE alternative.

Yeah, it's going through the roof:

   http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my
beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work.

The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use. Given
that is nearly the same number of people who are left-handed, do you
propose telling them to go away too?

Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't
appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss. And it still takes around
30 seconds to load over ADSL 2 that can achieve 3Mbs.

Your back-end coding for the algebra part might be great, but the UI
sucks.

1. <URL: http://gs.statcounter.com/#browser-eu-monthly-200908-201007 >

 

[David Mark]

David Mark wrote:
//teamalgebra.com/[/url]
Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard...
That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app.
When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab],
That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic
navigation.  They should persist their state though (e.g. with
cookies, local storage, etc.)
I get
"G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut).
And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site.
Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to
track them down.
Let's see what the browser/engine is first.

I already told you.

They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing?  Some team
you've got there.  

Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very
popular in Europe.  Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it
as an IE alternative.

Yeah, it's going through the roof:

   http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

We've been over that a million times. Such stats rarely reflect
reality for reasons that should be obvious. UA strings are often
indistinguishable from each other. Users and software can change the
UA string. And ever heard of proxy servers? Yes, they've been known
to supply their own UA string from all users.

2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008.

Call it 2%. You mentioned you were once a math teacher. What is 2%
of browsers in use? This isn't high school, Kenny; 98% is not an A+.
And it's not like qooxdoo comes anywhere near 98% anyway. Hard to pin
it down due to the browser sniffing, but you can bet that any current
build's score will decline over time as browsers change and new
browsers are introduced.

I'm sure you subscribe to the notion that you will just download a new
qooxdoo every few months, but we've been over that too. For one,
you've been patching the thing, so upgrading will be a problem. For
two, qooxdoo will add new features that you don't necessarily need and
that might well screw up the features you do need. And last but not
least, these browser sniffing scripts invariably break the last batch
of browsers when they twiddle with their "logic" to "support" newer
ones.

And the point is that you could have easily avoided all of this by
just listening. I told you a long ways back that qooxdoo was a non-
starter.

Be still my
beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work.

Don't believe everything you see on the tube.

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

As for "datagrid", read this thread:-

http://groups.google.com/group/my-library-general-discussion/browse_thread/thread/4636cecd90eab742

Search for "grid" if you have a short attention span.

Got it:

And, there will never be a grid control. Think about commercial
desktop software and operating systems. How much of it uses grids?
Spreadsheets and database managers (e.g. MS Access) are about it.

Most business applications provide an interface to a database. My first
app was a datamining app and DB browser, I used nothing but grids and
treeviews.

I understand, tho: it's a lot of work. qooxdoo's has a kazillion
features, including resizable and relocatable columns, and even a little
widget that lets the user hide/show columns. Getting a bit frilly there,
but my client happened also to ask for it.

kt

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

David Mark wrote:
//teamalgebra.com/[/url]
Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard...
That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app.
When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab],
That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic
navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with
cookies, local storage, etc.)
I get
"G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut).
And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site.
Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to
track them down.
Let's see what the browser/engine is first.
I already told you.
Team qooxdoo seems to have
run up the white flag on Opera key events.
They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team
you've got there.
My investors (me) are
prepared to lose that market.
Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very
popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it
as an IE alternative.

Yeah, it's going through the roof:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my
beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work.

The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use.

5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox.

Given
that is nearly the same number of people who are left-handed, do you
propose telling them to go away too?

Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers!

Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't
appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss.

Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and
Chrome on Ubuntu.

kt

* Except two of the math keypad characters are out of place. That's a
jsMath issue I have addressed to date only with hard-coded kludges.
Looks like I need another.

 

[David Mark]

Got it:

I don't think you do.

Most business applications provide an interface to a database. My first
app was a datamining app and DB browser, I used nothing but grids and
treeviews.

Most business applications use some sort of a database. That doesn't
mean they need to look like a database manager (e.g. MS Access).
Those sorts of quickie grid apps are typically the result of
inexperienced and/or unimaginative designers. I spent a decade
writing DB front-ends and never once used a grid.

I understand, tho: it's a lot of work. qooxdoo's has a kazillion
features, including resizable and relocatable columns, and even a little
widget that lets the user hide/show columns.

You don't understand anything. That's all piffle. And I did a
massive amount of work on Dojo's execrable grid. They are all the
same basic BS.

Getting a bit frilly there,
but my client happened also to ask for it.

What client?

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

David Mark wrote:
//teamalgebra.com/[/url]
Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard...
That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app.
When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab],
That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic
navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with
cookies, local storage, etc.)
I get
"G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut).
And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site.
Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to
track them down.
Let's see what the browser/engine is first.
I already told you.
Team qooxdoo seems to have
run up the white flag on Opera key events.
They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team
you've got there.
My investors (me) are
prepared to lose that market.
Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very
popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it
as an IE alternative.

Yeah, it's going through the roof:

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

We've been over that a million times. Such stats rarely reflect
reality for reasons that should be obvious. UA strings are often
indistinguishable from each other. Users and software can change the
UA string. And ever heard of proxy servers? Yes, they've been known
to supply their own UA string from all users.

2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008.

Call it 2%. You mentioned you were once a math teacher. What is 2%
of browsers in use? This isn't high school, Kenny; 98% is not an A+.

No, this is business school and when one is reaching 98% of the market
the cost of reaching another 2% (who is free to use FireFox if they need
help with Algebra and if they won't do that they prolly aren't buyers
anyway) prolly cannot be justified, not as long as their are features to
add that would be more effective at growing share.

And it's not like qooxdoo comes anywhere near 98% anyway. Hard to pin
it down due to the browser sniffing, but you can bet that any current
build's score will decline over time as browsers change and new
browsers are introduced.

I'm sure you subscribe to the notion that you will just download a new
qooxdoo every few months, but we've been over that too. For one,
you've been patching the thing,...

Once, which they added to qooxdoo about an hour after I did cuz it was a
no-brainer.

so upgrading will be a problem. For
two, qooxdoo will add new features that you don't necessarily need and
that might well screw up the features you do need. And last but not
least, these browser sniffing scripts invariably break the last batch
of browsers when they twiddle with their "logic" to "support" newer
ones.

Thanks for the happy reminder that I am not doing a desktop app and
dealing with Windows XP, Windows Vista, and Windows 7 any more with a
port to the Mac an open item. Whew!

And the point is that you could have easily avoided all of this by
just listening. I told you a long ways back that qooxdoo was a non-
starter.

IIRC, all you came up with was some panel not scrolling when you
stress-tested it by shrinking it beyond reason. And it did not scroll
because I did not add one line of code (since added):

(vpage ()label "Typing Lessons") <-- makes a tab in a tab control
(scroller add 'flex 1)) <-- wraps it in a scroller
(math-paper-examples self)))

btw, this thread is supposed to be about qooxlisp and now it is: qooxdoo
developers using raw JS write a helluva a lot more code than that, and
it is all boilerplate. Part of the win here is the fact that I created
an engine to automate the assembly of qooxdoo ui hierarchies, but
another win is the legendary Lisp macro.

I keep giving qooxdoo the credit for bringing this thing to fruition so
quickly, but qooxlisp gets as much credit.

kt

 

[David Mark]

David Mark wrote:
David Mark wrote:
//teamalgebra.com/[/url]
Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard...
That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app.
When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab],
That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic
navigation.  They should persist their state though (e.g. with
cookies, local storage, etc.)
I get
"G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut).
And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site.
Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to
track them down.
Let's see what the browser/engine is first.
I already told you.
Team qooxdoo seems to have
run up the white flag on Opera key events.
They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing?  Some team
you've got there.  
My investors (me) are
prepared to lose that market.
Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very
popular in Europe.  Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it
as an IE alternative.
Yeah, it's going through the roof:
   http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my
beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work.

The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use.

5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox.

So you see 95% as a solid A? Why not just admit that you hitched your
wagon to a broken down nag?

Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers!

But you didn't get the comparison. The basic gist is that 5% is a
significant percentage of the population.

Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and
Chrome on Ubuntu.

You are falling into the trap of assuming that everyone has the
identical setup. And you didn't even ask (or specify) the versions of
those browsers.

As with most aspiring Web app developers, you are in way over your
head (and sinking fast).

 

[rf]

But you didn't get the comparison. The basic gist is that 5% is a
significant percentage of the population.

Consider that 5% is about the percentage of the worlds population who live
in the U S of A

 

[RobG]

David Mark wrote:
David Mark wrote:
//teamalgebra.com/[/url]
Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard...
That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app.
When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab],
That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic
navigation. They should persist their state though (e.g. with
cookies, local storage, etc.)
I get
"G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut).
And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site.
Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to
track them down.
Let's see what the browser/engine is first.
I already told you.
Team qooxdoo seems to have
run up the white flag on Opera key events.
They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing? Some team
you've got there.
My investors (me) are
prepared to lose that market.
Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very
popular in Europe. Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offering it
as an IE alternative.
Yeah, it's going through the roof:
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my
beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work.

The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use.

5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox.

Here's some more 5%ers for you: touch devices. Your site is completely
useless, it doesn't recognise touches in the editable areas, and even
if it did, likely the keyboard won't appear because the device doesn't
see it as an editable area.

The scroll bars don't work, nor does the usual two-finger scroll in
scrolling divs, so if content requires scrolling, it can't be
accessed.

Pressing the blue buttons does nothing, no hints about what keys to
press as is indicated by the text. There are likely other issues.

No doubt you'll lament that Qooxdoo doesn't support touch devices yet,
but again had you used simple HTML for UI components instead of those
supplied by Qooxdoo likely it wouldn't have been an issue.

In contrast, other complex sites I use (such as banking and share
trading) work just fine on iPhone and iPad, and they've done nothing
special to support them, probably because they stayed with basic
functionality and HTML enhanced by script where suitable. They didn't
try to build the entire interface using script.

I wonder how your site goes on Android touch devices?

Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers!

Indeed. It's your logic to dismiss groups that represent less than a
certain percentage of potential users, not mine. Also note that it is
your choice of development platform that excludes them (and many
others), not any technical deficiencies in their choice of user agent.

Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and
Chrome on Ubuntu.

I'll post some links to screen shots later.

 

[David Mark]

David Mark wrote:
David Mark wrote:
//teamalgebra.com/[/url]
Apparently, I have a flaky keyboard...
That's as maybe, but the culprit here is likely Kenny's flaky app..
When I type "g=mc2==" on the [unbookmarkable tab],
That I don't mind as I don't think tabbed interfaces should mimic
navigation.  They should persist their state though (e.g. with
cookies, local storage, etc.)
I get
"G0MC200" (and the "2" also triggers a browser shortcut).
And there are heaps of other peculiarities on that site.
Not unsurprising and it will require debugging a meg of dubious JS to
track them down.
Let's see what the browser/engine is first.
I already told you.
Team qooxdoo seems to have
run up the white flag on Opera key events.
They can't even make it work *with* browser sniffing?  Some team
you've got there.  
My investors (me) are
prepared to lose that market.
Odd for European developers to give up on a browser that is very
popular in Europe.  Lately it has gotten a boost from MS offeringit
as an IE alternative.
Yeah, it's going through the roof:
   http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
2.1% and dropping from a high of 2.4 in December, 2008. Be still my
beating heart. Glad I checked before seeing if I could make it work.
The comment was about *Europe*, where Opera has about 5%[1] use.

5%? If they need help with Algebra, they can fire up FireFox.

Here's some more 5%ers for you: touch devices. Your site is completely
useless, it doesn't recognise touches in the editable areas, and even
if it did, likely the keyboard won't appear because the device doesn't
see it as an editable area.

The scroll bars don't work, nor does the usual two-finger scroll in
scrolling divs, so if content requires scrolling, it can't be
accessed.

Pressing the blue buttons does nothing, no hints about what keys to
press as is indicated by the text. There are likely other issues.

No doubt you'll lament that Qooxdoo doesn't support touch devices yet,
but again had you used simple HTML for UI components instead of those
supplied by Qooxdoo likely it wouldn't have been an issue.

In contrast, other complex sites I use (such as banking and share
trading) work just fine on iPhone and iPad, and they've done nothing
special to support them, probably because they stayed with basic
functionality and HTML enhanced by script where suitable. They didn't
try to build the entire interface using script.

I wonder how your site goes on Android touch devices?

Love the logic, Rob! Down with the 5%ers!

Indeed. It's your logic to dismiss groups that represent less than a
certain percentage of potential users, not mine. Also note that it is
your choice of development platform that excludes them (and many
others), not any technical deficiencies in their choice of user agent.

Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and
Chrome on Ubuntu.

I'll post some links to screen shots later.

Much later, please. After the children have gone to bed. I'm
assuming they are pretty gruesome.

 

[Kenneth Tilton]

But you didn't get the comparison. The basic gist is that 5% is a
significant percentage of the population.

Think business, not coverage. Also cost/benefit. er, and retail.

You are falling into the trap of assuming that everyone has the
identical setup.

Nope, I was just saying, it works for me. A response of the same
thoroughness and quality and worth as the report.

And you didn't even ask (or specify) the versions of
those browsers.

Just cutting my losses: setup info is not offered up front in this
genius NG by people that know better so I have to think they are not
meant as serious reports.

Reminds me of the guy who reported a bug in the Algebra engine I could
not reproduce and who just disappeared when his report was questioned.
It would be an impressive bug given that the Algebra engine uses
numerical methods to sanity check its symbolic work, so it almost looks
like a deliberate mis-report. Taking some of you with a grain of salt
these days.

As with most aspiring Web app developers, you are in way over your
head (and sinking fast).

glub-glub.

kt

 

[MarkHaniford]

....and don't forget about the people using Lynx, and the people using
IE4, and the people with Javascript turned off, and the people that
don't have internet.

Kenny, they're significant. Don't deny them.

 

[David Mark]

...and don't forget about the people using Lynx,

People using Lynx (and other text browsers) include blind people and
AIUI some navy personnel.

and the people using
IE4,

That's the typical, outlandish non-argument spewed by people ignorant
of the fact that many of these "widget libraries" barely work in a
handful of the *very latest* browsers.

and the people with Javascript turned off,

Lots of those (some have no choice). It's perfectly ridiculous to
design a Website to display a blank (white screen of death) to those
people. And, of course, several of the qooxdoo demos (presumably the
best things they've made) display such results in the latest versions
of their "supported" browsers with scripting turned *on*. At various
times, Kenny's application has done that too.

and the people that
don't have internet.

More like the people who don't have high-speed connections. Lots of
those too and they can't be expected to wait 3-4 minutes for a page to
load.

Kenny, they're significant.  Don't deny them.

The joke is on you.

 

[Richard Cornford]

David Mark wrote:


Nope, I was just saying, it works for me. A response of the
same thoroughness and quality and worth as the report.


Just cutting my losses: setup info is not offered up front
in this genius NG by people that know better so I have to
think they are not meant as serious reports.

<snip>

You appear to be labouring under a misconception that the comments you
have been receiving represent bug or error reports. They are not;
instead they are nothing but a general announcement of the results of
assessing the quality of the 'web application' that you have been
oscillating between calling finished and a train wreck. The initial
assessment of a web application is fairly simple; load it into some
random (but usually fairly common/popular) web browser and see if
operates without script errors, is useable (in the broadest sense) and
(ultimately) does what it is asserted to do. The feedback from such an
assessment might be no more than pointing out the fact that it errors
at some point (as it loads in your case), that it is too slow to be
useable or that the UI does not function in some way in a particular
browser.

This sort of response is reasonable in the face of assertions such as
that qooxdoo allows an individual to crate a web application in X
weeks of work, because if the 'application' is actually a train wreck
when tired, how long it took to create that train wreck is of not
significance at all (because any fool can rapidly create a train
wreck, with or without qooxdoo). What an independent observer,
interested in qooxdoo is interested in is how long it takes to create
the finished application, where an early symptom of being 'finished'
would be not providing grounds for criticism following relatively
superficial testing.

Making a proper bug report would imply a desire to help you, and given
your attitude and behaviour in this group over the last year or so I
doubt that there are many left who would consider it worth their
effort to try to help you. On the other hand, even without any desire
to help you there is still the reoccurring warning that what you see
from wherever it you observe from does not correspond with what others
are seeing from wherever they are observing from. It suggests that
chanting "works for me" is not the rout to what independent observers
are going to agree is 'finished'.

Richard.

 

[David Mark]

Think business, not coverage. Also cost/benefit. er, and retail.

As I've told you before, there is no extra cost associated with doing
things right. If anything, it's much cheaper. Of course, if you have
no idea what you are doing, you will fail either way.

Nope, I was just saying, it works for me.

You have a long history of saying that. It's meaningless when reports
are coming in from all corners saying your application is the white
screen of death or takes ten minutes to load or fails to handle
keystrokes properly.

A response of the same
thoroughness and quality and worth as the report.

People report bugs to you because you are the author. Your dubious
non-bug reports are a waste of time.

Just cutting my losses: setup info is not offered up front in this
genius NG by people that know better so I have to think they are not
meant as serious reports.

What the hell are you talking about?

Reminds me of the guy who reported a bug in the Algebra engine I could
not reproduce and who just disappeared when his report was questioned.

Likely from lack of interest or distaste for your constant denials.

It would be an impressive bug given that the Algebra engine uses
numerical methods to sanity check its symbolic work, so it almost looks
like a deliberate mis-report.

You are paranoid (or trying to talk yourself into something). Why
would so many people around the globe misreport bugs to you? It
defies imagination.

Taking some of you with a grain of salt
these days.

Some of who?

glub-glub.

When you hit bottom, realize that if you had spent more time learning
and less time whining about evil bug reporters...

 

[MarkHaniford]

The joke is on you.

No, the joke is you letting Kenny getting your panties in a bunch.

 

[RobG]

RobG wrote: [...]

Your site is still a "train wreck" in Safari, many buttons don't
appear, the tying tutorial is hit and miss.

Works for me in Safari on Windows* and the Mac. And iCab on the Mac and
Chrome on Ubuntu.

How do you replicate the Windows delete key on a Mac laptop? The Mac
delete key is equivalent (more or less) to the Windows backspace key,
fn+delete is the equivalent of the delete key.

I'll post some links to screen shots later.

It seems some of those issues have been fixed since Saturday when I
last looked. It would be good if the typing tutor displayed the
expected result.

There are still issues, entering:

1 < x < 5

results in "51" being displayed.

Entering:

1<x>5

results in:

1>x^5

Once an equality operator has been entered using the blue buttons,
trying to enter another results in the first one being changed.

In lesson 7, enter the characters as requested. Then enter ">", it
changes the equality operator several characters to the left, then
press "<". The last 4 characters disappear.

The only way to remove brackets seems to be to delete their entire
content.

The UI is slowly getting better, but it seems to have been a very
long, slow process.

Bumping up font sizes messes up the UI - it seems to be based on a
fixed layout and does't take account of font size.

The UI doesn't handle left-right scroll (tilt wheel mouse or swipe on
a touch pad) when horizontal scroll bars are displayed.

The above occurs in Safari 5 on Mac OS and IE 6 on Windows.

 

[David Mark]

No, the joke is you letting Kenny getting your panties in a bunch.

Now the joke *is* you.

And I couldn't care less what Kenny does. However, there are
thousands of other beginners reading his (and now your) ravings.
Somebody has to set the record straight.