Question About Creating Lists

Discussion in 'Python' started by Scott, Apr 12, 2007.

  1. Scott

    Scott Guest

    I'm sorry if most of my question's seem "petty", but as I've said before, I
    need to know the petty just because I need to know.

    This question is more along the lines of just having you guys either agree
    or disgree with me, and if disagreeing to give the reasoning behind it, to
    further my understanding of lists.

    Am I safe in assuming that if the list your building contains number's it
    will be written as follows:

    >>>my_list = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]


    But the minute you throw in something that's not a number it has to be
    written as:

    >>>my_list = [1, 2, 3, 4, 'five']
    >>> my_list

    [1, 2, 3, 4, 'five']

    Unless five was defined, then it could be written as:

    >>>five = 5
    >>>my_list = [1, 2, 3, 4, five]
    >>> my_list

    [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]


    Is this the correct way of thinking? Or am I, by thinking this is the case,
    crippling myself in my potential as a programmer
     
    Scott, Apr 12, 2007
    #1
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  2. Scott

    7stud Guest

    On Apr 12, 3:29 pm, "Scott" <> wrote:
    > I'm sorry if most of my question's seem "petty", but as I've said before, I
    > need to know the petty just because I need to know.
    >
    > This question is more along the lines of just having you guys either agree
    > or disgree with me, and if disagreeing to give the reasoning behind it, to
    > further my understanding of lists.
    >


    Please forgo the psychological self analysis from your future posts.


    > Am I safe in assuming that if the list your building contains number's it
    > will be written as follows:
    >
    > >>>my_list = [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

    >
    > But the minute you throw in something that's not a number it has to be
    > written as:
    >
    > >>>my_list = [1, 2, 3, 4, 'five']
    > >>> my_list

    >
    > [1, 2, 3, 4, 'five']
    >
    > Unless five was defined, then it could be written as:
    >
    > >>>five = 5
    > >>>my_list = [1, 2, 3, 4, five]
    > >>> my_list

    >
    > [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
    >
    > Is this the correct way of thinking? Or am I, by thinking this is the case,
    > crippling myself in my potential as a programmer


    I don't think your question has anything to do with lists. Maybe this
    will help: there is a distinction between what are called "literals"
    and "variables". A variable is created like this:


    num = 10

    num is a variable. It's called a variable because it's value can
    "vary":

    num = 20


    On the other hand the value 10 cannot vary, so it is not a variable.
    What is it? It's called a "literal". Here are some examples of
    literals:

    10 --- integer literal
    3.5 --- float literal
    "hello" --- string literal

    Literals are the values you can assign to variables. Finally, any
    name without quotes around it is variable and it refers to a value
    which python will substitute in place of that name(that doesn't apply
    to python keywords like if, while, etc.)
     
    7stud, Apr 12, 2007
    #2
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  3. Scott

    Scott Guest


    > Please forgo the psychological self analysis from your future posts.


    Unfortunately I can't, that's how I am, love it or leave it. But if your
    going to be condescending about it, please leave your future replies in your
    outbox. Now don't take that as I don't appreciate your reply. I just don't
    appreciate the tone of that statement. I wouldn't say something about your
    pseudonym possibly making up for some personal deficiency only because it
    wouldn't be right. Email etiquette is a beautiful thing.

    And I'm sorry if you didn't mean it that way, but that's the way it read.

    > I don't think your question has anything to do with lists. Maybe this
    > will help: there is a distinction between what are called "literals"
    > and "variables".


    My question was in fact about lists and their proper "syntax" (I'm guessing
    that's the right word). Basically all I was asking was if I had the idea
    down or not, which was meant to be implied when I wrote: Am I safe in
    assuming....

    Maybe I didn't write it the exact way to get the response I needed, and if
    it read differently I'm sorry. But that's all I was asking.
     
    Scott, Apr 13, 2007
    #3
  4. Scott

    James Stroud Guest

    Scott wrote:
    >>Please forgo the psychological self analysis from your future posts.

    >
    >
    > Unfortunately I can't, that's how I am, love it or leave it. But if your
    > going to be condescending about it, please leave your future replies in your
    > outbox. Now don't take that as I don't appreciate your reply. I just don't
    > appreciate the tone of that statement. I wouldn't say something about your
    > pseudonym possibly making up for some personal deficiency only because it
    > wouldn't be right. Email etiquette is a beautiful thing.
    >
    > And I'm sorry if you didn't mean it that way, but that's the way it read.
    >
    >
    >>I don't think your question has anything to do with lists. Maybe this
    >>will help: there is a distinction between what are called "literals"
    >>and "variables".

    >
    >
    > My question was in fact about lists and their proper "syntax" (I'm guessing
    > that's the right word). Basically all I was asking was if I had the idea
    > down or not, which was meant to be implied when I wrote: Am I safe in
    > assuming....
    >
    > Maybe I didn't write it the exact way to get the response I needed, and if
    > it read differently I'm sorry. But that's all I was asking.
    >
    >


    7stud probably meant that you don't need to apologize for asking
    questions. The only stupid question is the one that goes unasked.

    Also, I'm guessing that his (or her?) name is a reference to a card game
    he (or she?) likes particularly.

    James
     
    James Stroud, Apr 13, 2007
    #4
  5. Scott

    Steve Holden Guest

    Scott wrote:
    >
    >> Please forgo the psychological self analysis from your future posts.

    >
    > Unfortunately I can't, that's how I am, love it or leave it. But if your
    > going to be condescending about it, please leave your future replies in your
    > outbox. Now don't take that as I don't appreciate your reply. I just don't
    > appreciate the tone of that statement. I wouldn't say something about your
    > pseudonym possibly making up for some personal deficiency only because it
    > wouldn't be right. Email etiquette is a beautiful thing.
    >

    And that's a really sideways way to take a swipe at someone while
    pretending to be too high-minded to do it (plus see James's comments
    about other possible explanations). If you kiddies would take this fight
    out into the playground perhaps the rest of the class can continue.

    It *would* be helpful if you "just asked the question". You said in your
    original post that "... I need to know the petty just because I need to
    know", but that's an abuse of the word need unless you suffer from a
    quite unusual psychological compulsion.

    Another psychological compulsion, of course, is the inability to ignore
    the irrelevant in other people's posts. The two apparently don't combine
    well.

    > And I'm sorry if you didn't mean it that way, but that's the way it read.
    >

    To you. Get over it, this is Usenet. You will experience worse if you
    stick at it long enough.

    >> I don't think your question has anything to do with lists. Maybe this
    >> will help: there is a distinction between what are called "literals"
    >> and "variables".

    >
    > My question was in fact about lists and their proper "syntax" (I'm guessing
    > that's the right word). Basically all I was asking was if I had the idea
    > down or not, which was meant to be implied when I wrote: Am I safe in
    > assuming....
    >
    > Maybe I didn't write it the exact way to get the response I needed, and if
    > it read differently I'm sorry. But that's all I was asking.
    >
    >

    You can't really separate the syntax of lists from the syntax of the
    rest of Python. Maybe you didn't mean syntax, it's hard to know. There
    are, as has been pointed out, names and values. Names are references to
    values. So after you say

    five = 5

    the following conditions are true:

    [1, 2, 3, 4, 5] == [1, 2, 3, 4, five]
    [1, 2, 3, 4, 'five'] != [1, 2, 3, 4, five]

    Then execute

    five = 'five'

    and the truth value of both conditions flips, so the first is false and
    the second is true.

    The value referenced by the name five changes as new values are assigned
    (in Python we tend to prefer to say "bound", to remind us that names are
    really references) to it. The values represented by the literals 5 and
    'five' will never change.

    regards
    Steve
    --
    Steve Holden +44 150 684 7255 +1 800 494 3119
    Holden Web LLC/Ltd http://www.holdenweb.com
    Skype: holdenweb http://del.icio.us/steve.holden
    Recent Ramblings http://holdenweb.blogspot.com
     
    Steve Holden, Apr 13, 2007
    #5
  6. Scott

    Scott Guest

    > And that's a really sideways way to take a swipe at someone while
    > pretending to be too high-minded to do it (plus see James's comments about
    > other possible explanations). If you kiddies would take this fight out
    > into the playground perhaps the rest of the class can continue.


    It wasn't meant as a swipe, it was an example of what he did turned around.
    There was no fight, at least on my end. What happened was I was confronted
    something that I didn't appreciate it, and I made it known, just as most
    people would if it happened face to face.

    > It *would* be helpful if you "just asked the question". You said in your
    > original post that "... I need to know the petty just because I need to
    > know", but that's an abuse of the word need unless you suffer from a quite
    > unusual psychological compulsion.


    I see the point to getting to the point (lol). Most people don't worry about
    my ramblings, and I've found that if they aren't included I get a 1-2 line
    answer. That 1-2 line answer, while fine for most, just WILL not help me. It
    actually makes it worse. I have a compulsion for knowledge that pass' far
    beyond what most people would call healthy. So much so that I take
    medications I'm not about to list here. If I attempt to learn something and
    don't understand it, my entire mindset is taken over by my desire. I CAN NOT
    sleep, eat, or function "normally" until I KNOW even the mundane. I hate
    using the following example, but it helps some people understand how my mind
    thinks. Have you ever seen a crack addict walking down the street (or on
    tv) and their thoroughly searching the ground for the crack that they
    dropped (that they never really had)? Take that and substitute crack for
    knowledge and you'll have me. SO now you see why I start my posts the way I
    do.

    > To you. Get over it, this is Usenet. You will experience worse if you
    > stick at it long enough.


    I've already come to this understanding just as most who frequent any type
    of "community" online, what with all the internet tough guys who frequent
    most forums. That's in no way a knock at 7stud just an observation of most
    troublemakers. But just because we all know its there, doesn't make it
    acceptable, nor does it mean anyone should have to tolerate it just because
    they chose to hop online. When someone makes it known a certain thing
    bothers them, the polite thing to do would be to stop. I bet if I TYPED IN
    CAPS LOCKS FOR EVERYTHING I WROTE, someone, if not everyone, would say
    something. Its the same idea with what I did.

    There are plenty of ways to stop this kind of treatment online, and if more
    people knew that all they had to do was make a call to thier ISP, or to the
    local police department with even just a pseudonym, that kind of treatment
    would become less acceptable. I deal with these types of reports every day
    at work. Fines can be impossed no matter where the harrasser is, and
    depending on the context can actually involve jail time. Of course this
    actual issue is very petty, and all that is/should be needed, was my
    addressing the fact that it was not polite. That should of been the end of
    it, and it seems to have been.

    Believe it or not the problem lies with the people getting harrased, not the
    harrasser. They believe nothing will be done and so they don't try, and
    then they come to accept it. How wrong they are.
     
    Scott, Apr 13, 2007
    #6
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