question about frames and xhtml

Discussion in 'HTML' started by William Gill, Apr 24, 2012.

  1. William Gill

    William Gill Guest

    I am maintaining a site where the original designer used a lot of "web
    designer in a can" tools. The result is a frames based site, very
    convoluted code and javascript, and pages in xhtml.

    I won't go into the directory structure that goes down 5 or 6 levels for
    html pages, a separate 5 or 6 level path for the images, and an image
    naming convention that uses the titles of the parent levels (i.e.
    root/level1/level2/level3/level4/level5/images contains an image
    level1_level2_level3_level4_level5_image1.jpg, where level1 etc. are
    actually descriptive terms)

    Anyway, I am thinking of eventually redoing the entire site, but in the
    mean time are there any pitfalls to converting xhtml pages to html on an
    as I go along basis (while I also clean out unneeded code snippets).
    This would leave a mixed bag of xhtml and html being displayed in a
    frame on parent pages. Does that pose any problems?
    William Gill, Apr 24, 2012
    #1
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  2. William Gill

    cwdjrxyz Guest

    On Apr 24, 2:53 pm, William Gill <> wrote:
    > I am maintaining a site where the original designer used a lot of "web
    > designer in a can" tools.  The result is a frames based site, very
    > convoluted code and javascript, and pages in xhtml.
    >
    > I won't go into the directory structure that goes down 5 or 6 levels for
    > html pages, a separate 5 or 6 level path for the images, and an image
    > naming convention that uses the titles of the parent levels (i.e.
    > root/level1/level2/level3/level4/level5/images contains an image
    > level1_level2_level3_level4_level5_image1.jpg, where level1 etc. are
    > actually descriptive terms)
    >
    > Anyway, I am thinking of eventually redoing the entire site, but in the
    > mean time are there any pitfalls to converting xhtml pages to html on an
    > as I go along basis (while I also clean out unneeded code snippets).
    > This would leave a mixed bag of xhtml and html being displayed in a
    > frame on parent pages.  Does that pose any problems?


    Without a link to the pages, one can only guess. I would check the
    pages with the w3c validator. If you get a lot of errors, conversion
    may be very time consuming. Also most xhtml pages are served as html.
    You must associate a mime type of something other than html with an
    xhtml page on the server to serve as true xhtml. When you do the page
    may likely not work because true xhtml is parsed very strictly to
    avoid errors, often fatal, if there are xml errors. A xhtml page
    served correctly must handle html, xml, or a combination of both. Even
    if your xhtml pages validate completely, you are still just using html
    unless you adjust mime types on the server for true xhtml. In that
    case you would be better off just to use html, such as 4.01 strict if
    you can avoid frames and the frame version of html 4.01 if you must
    use frames.

    If you have many pages and many errors, it might be best to do no
    drastic changes if you can keep the pages working as written.
    cwdjrxyz, Apr 27, 2012
    #2
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  3. William Gill

    William Gill Guest

    On 4/27/2012 1:25 AM, cwdjrxyz wrote:
    > Without a link to the pages, one can only guess. I would check the
    > pages with the w3c validator. If you get a lot of errors, conversion
    > may be very time consuming. Also most xhtml pages are served as html.
    > You must associate a mime type of something other than html with an
    > xhtml page on the server to serve as true xhtml. When you do the page
    > may likely not work because true xhtml is parsed very strictly to
    > avoid errors, often fatal, if there are xml errors. A xhtml page
    > served correctly must handle html, xml, or a combination of both. Even
    > if your xhtml pages validate completely, you are still just using html
    > unless you adjust mime types on the server for true xhtml. In that
    > case you would be better off just to use html, such as 4.01 strict if
    > you can avoid frames and the frame version of html 4.01 if you must
    > use frames.
    >
    > If you have many pages and many errors, it might be best to do no
    > drastic changes if you can keep the pages working as written.
    >

    The original question was simple enough, though maybe not stated so
    simply. Not being fluent in frames, I wanted to know if it poses any
    problems if pages used to fill each frame include a mix of both html and
    xhtml resources.

    Not sure what providing a URL would do to clarify that.

    When I update a page, I validate and correct as I go, but this is a
    working website(Yucca might say, "By some definition of working."), and
    I tend to believe "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
    William Gill, Apr 27, 2012
    #3
  4. William Gill

    Neil Gould Guest

    William Gill wrote:
    > [...] Not being fluent in frames, I wanted to know if it poses any
    > problems if pages used to fill each frame include a mix of both html
    > and xhtml resources.
    >

    Each frame will contain a complete and separate page, and I don't think that
    the format of that page, be it xhtml, html, asp, php etc. would matter.

    Hope this helps,

    Neil
    Neil Gould, Apr 27, 2012
    #4
  5. William Gill

    dorayme Guest

    In article <jnesoo$r0h$>,
    William Gill <> wrote:

    > The original question was simple enough, though maybe not stated so
    > simply. Not being fluent in frames, I wanted to know if it poses any
    > problems if pages used to fill each frame include a mix of both html and
    > xhtml resources.


    In your OP there was an impression (slight or otherwise) that you
    might have been meaning individual pages to be a mix.

    Anyway, if the src of the frames are good (if they would be good out
    of frames), be they xhtml, html, img, possibly even a healthy African
    plains animal (the sick ones cannot stand being exhibited live in
    frames), the thing should work OK.

    The frameset is like a downtown hotel landlord who does not pry into
    what the guests do in their rooms, hardly even bothers to check what
    visitors write down when they register, he knows most of them would
    not even lie straight in their coffins - just look at how seedy his
    joint is. All he is concerned with is they pay in advance for a night.

    He used not to drink so much before his detective agency came
    across... well... well, this dame see ... Charlotte Rompling. She
    hired him to find a man, Big Al Moose. Long story, he took the case
    against his better instincts, became a ruined man, a complete drunk
    and ended up living on the streets until he stumbled on this third
    rate job manning this poke hole.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Apr 27, 2012
    #5
  6. William Gill

    William Gill Guest

    On 4/27/2012 6:45 PM, dorayme wrote:
    > In your OP there was an impression (slight or otherwise) that you
    > might have been meaning individual pages to be a mix.
    >
    > Anyway, if the src of the frames are good (if they would be good out
    > of frames), be they xhtml, html, img, possibly even a healthy African
    > plains animal (the sick ones cannot stand being exhibited live in
    > frames), the thing should work OK.
    >
    > The frameset is like a downtown hotel landlord who does not pry into
    > what the guests do in their rooms, hardly even bothers to check what
    > visitors write down when they register, he knows most of them would
    > not even lie straight in their coffins - just look at how seedy his
    > joint is. All he is concerned with is they pay in advance for a night.
    >
    > He used not to drink so much before his detective agency came
    > across... well... well, this dame see ... Charlotte Rompling. She
    > hired him to find a man, Big Al Moose. Long story, he took the case
    > against his better instincts, became a ruined man, a complete drunk
    > and ended up living on the streets until he stumbled on this third
    > rate job manning this poke hole.
    >

    So then, I can update a page, and submit it to the Carrie Nation
    treatment, whilst the remaining derelicts go approached, and the
    establishment continues to function as advertised.

    Thank you
    William Gill, Apr 28, 2012
    #6
  7. William Gill

    dorayme Guest

    In article <jnfhcg$9ba$>,
    William Gill <> wrote:

    > On 4/27/2012 6:45 PM, dorayme wrote:
    > > In your OP there was an impression (slight or otherwise) that you
    > > might have been meaning individual pages to be a mix.
    > >
    > > Anyway, if the src of the frames are good (if they would be good out
    > > of frames), be they xhtml, html, img, possibly even a healthy African
    > > plains animal (the sick ones cannot stand being exhibited live in
    > > frames), the thing should work OK.
    > >
    > > The frameset is like a downtown hotel landlord who does not pry into
    > > what the guests do in their rooms, hardly even bothers to check what
    > > visitors write down when they register, he knows most of them would
    > > not even lie straight in their coffins - just look at how seedy his
    > > joint is. All he is concerned with is they pay in advance for a night.
    > >
    > > He used not to drink so much before his detective agency came
    > > across... well... well, this dame see ... Charlotte Rompling. She
    > > hired him to find a man, Big Al Moose. Long story, he took the case
    > > against his better instincts, became a ruined man, a complete drunk
    > > and ended up living on the streets until he stumbled on this third
    > > rate job manning this poke hole.
    > >

    > So then, I can update a page, and submit it to the Carrie Nation
    > treatment, whilst the remaining derelicts go approached, and the
    > establishment continues to function as advertised.


    Sure. These seedy hotels are a broad church, even demoralised priests
    down on their luck stay in them and do nothing more than pray and
    sleep in their rooms, while all manner of other things happen in other
    rooms, drug deals, murders, criminal plannings...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Apr 28, 2012
    #7
  8. On Fri, 27 Apr 2012, William Gill wrote:

    > I wanted to know if it poses any problems if pages used to fill
    > each frame include a mix of both html and xhtml resources.


    Probably not as long as you serve them with the same content-type,
    i.e. text/html.

    > When I update a page, I validate and correct as I go,
    > but this is a working website


    Then keep XHTML. I don't see any good reason to convert them back
    to HTML.

    --
    From the New World:
    http://www.google.com/search?ie=ISO-8859-2&q=Dvofi%E1k
    Andreas Prilop, Apr 28, 2012
    #8
  9. William Gill

    William Gill Guest

    On 4/28/2012 10:46 AM, Andreas Prilop wrote:
    > Then keep XHTML. I don't see any good reason to convert them back
    > to HTML.


    Not a particularly compelling reason, but a defensive one. I don't do
    much xhtml, and by habit anything I do will lean toward html compliance.
    Sure the pages wouldn't validate if my updates miss "/>" with
    regularity, but that seems to be asking for trouble.
    William Gill, Apr 28, 2012
    #9
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