question about horizontal scrollbar in frames

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Michael Weis, Aug 11, 2006.

  1. Michael Weis

    Michael Weis Guest

    Hello all,

    as a non-professional in these things, I searched for this topic but found
    no satisfying answer:

    I have to create a site with 3 frames. (Please no diskussion about the sense
    of using frames...)
    The main frame has to show a vertical scrollbar if content is bigger than
    one display page.
    This works well, but:

    if I define "scrollbar=auto" then
    - in IE also a horizontal scrollbar is shown when content is bigger than
    one page (bad)
    - in Opera & Firefox only vertical scrollbar is shown (good)

    if I define "scrollbar=yes" then

    - in IE only a vertical scrollbar is shown (good)
    - in IE and FF also a horizontal scrollbar is shown but deactivated (grey)
    (bad)

    one hint is to delete the DTD statement. This solves the problem but is not
    a really good idea, because a lot of my css styles then works different.


    Any hints?

    Thank you very much,

    Michael
    Michael Weis, Aug 11, 2006
    #1
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  2. Michael Weis

    dorayme Guest

    In article <ebhdfg$t55$>,
    "Michael Weis" <> wrote:

    > Hello all,
    >
    > as a non-professional in these things, I searched for this topic but found
    > no satisfying answer:
    >
    > I have to create a site with 3 frames. (Please no diskussion about the sense
    > of using frames...)
    > The main frame has to show a vertical scrollbar if content is bigger than
    > one display page.
    > This works well, but:
    >
    > if I define "scrollbar=auto" then
    > - in IE also a horizontal scrollbar is shown when content is bigger than
    > one page (bad)
    > - in Opera & Firefox only vertical scrollbar is shown (good)
    >
    > if I define "scrollbar=yes" then
    >
    > - in IE only a vertical scrollbar is shown (good)
    > - in IE and FF also a horizontal scrollbar is shown but deactivated (grey)
    > (bad)


    Give us a url to demonstrate what you say when you have
    scrollbar="yes", it does not happen like you say on my copy of
    Mac IE , nor Safari, nor - and I bet quids this is the same on
    Windows for the following - Firefox. If you have things right,
    for scrollbars="yes", it behaves beautifully.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 11, 2006
    #2
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  3. Michael Weis

    Michael Weis Guest

    Hi,

    the site is on my notebook at this time --> no URL
    But I will give you one with an nearly empty site soon. I used one yesterday
    for verifying this behaviour.

    It is IE 6.0.2900.2180 on Win XP sp2.

    The behaviour at Opera & FF is correct!

    Regards,

    Michael


    dorayme wrote:
    > In article <ebhdfg$t55$>,
    > "Michael Weis" <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hello all,
    >>
    >> as a non-professional in these things, I searched for this topic but
    >> found no satisfying answer:
    >>
    >> I have to create a site with 3 frames. (Please no diskussion about
    >> the sense of using frames...)
    >> The main frame has to show a vertical scrollbar if content is bigger
    >> than one display page.
    >> This works well, but:
    >>
    >> if I define "scrollbar=auto" then
    >> - in IE also a horizontal scrollbar is shown when content is bigger
    >> than one page (bad)
    >> - in Opera & Firefox only vertical scrollbar is shown (good)
    >>
    >> if I define "scrollbar=yes" then
    >>
    >> - in IE only a vertical scrollbar is shown (good)
    >> - in IE and FF also a horizontal scrollbar is shown but deactivated
    >> (grey) (bad)

    >
    > Give us a url to demonstrate what you say when you have
    > scrollbar="yes", it does not happen like you say on my copy of
    > Mac IE , nor Safari, nor - and I bet quids this is the same on
    > Windows for the following - Firefox. If you have things right,
    > for scrollbars="yes", it behaves beautifully.
    Michael Weis, Aug 11, 2006
    #3
  4. Michael Weis

    Michael Weis Guest

    Hi,

    dorayme wrote:
    > Give us a url to demonstrate what you say when you have
    > scrollbar="yes", it does not happen like you say on my copy of
    > Mac IE , nor Safari, nor - and I bet quids this is the same on
    > Windows for the following - Firefox. If you have things right,
    > for scrollbars="yes", it behaves beautifully.


    Here they are:

    http://www.weis-it.de/dummy/frameset_yes.html

    http://www.weis-it.de/dummy/frameset_auto.html

    they act exactly as I described

    the "auto" value would be exact what I want - if MS IE wouldn't show this
    horizontal scrollbar.

    Regards,

    Michael
    Michael Weis, Aug 11, 2006
    #4
  5. On Fri, 11 Aug 2006, Michael Weis wrote:

    > X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2869
    >
    > (Please no diskussion about the sense of using frames...)


    Welcome to Usenet!

    > Any hints?


    http://piology.org/news/oe-erste-schritte.html

    --
    Top-posting.
    What's the most irritating thing on Usenet?
    Andreas Prilop, Aug 11, 2006
    #5
  6. Michael Weis

    rwap Guest

    Michael Weis wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > dorayme wrote:
    > > Give us a url to demonstrate what you say when you have
    > > scrollbar="yes", it does not happen like you say on my copy of
    > > Mac IE , nor Safari, nor - and I bet quids this is the same on
    > > Windows for the following - Firefox. If you have things right,
    > > for scrollbars="yes", it behaves beautifully.

    >
    > Here they are:
    >
    > http://www.weis-it.de/dummy/frameset_yes.html
    >
    > http://www.weis-it.de/dummy/frameset_auto.html
    >
    > they act exactly as I described
    >
    > the "auto" value would be exact what I want - if MS IE wouldn't show this
    > horizontal scrollbar.
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Michael


    Well there is some good news in that IE v7 (beta 3), the "auto" value
    only gives the vertical scroll bar as per Opera v9 and Firefox, so I
    would stick with auto for the time being.

    I did verify that "yes" gives the greyed out horizontal scrollbar on
    Opera and Firefox here.

    Rich
    www.internetbusinessangels.com
    rwap, Aug 11, 2006
    #6
  7. Michael Weis

    dorayme Guest

    In article <ebhkb4$cdl$>,
    "Michael Weis" <> wrote:

    > dorayme wrote:
    > > In article <ebhdfg$t55$>,
    > > "Michael Weis" <> wrote:
    > >


    > >> if I define "scrollbar=yes" then
    > >>
    > >> - in IE only a vertical scrollbar is shown (good)
    > >> - in IE and FF also a horizontal scrollbar is shown but deactivated
    > >> (grey) (bad)

    > >
    > > Give us a url to demonstrate what you say when you have
    > > scrollbar="yes", it does not happen like you say on my copy of
    > > Mac IE , nor Safari, nor - and I bet quids this is the same on
    > > Windows for the following - Firefox. If you have things right,
    > > for scrollbars="yes", it behaves beautifully.



    > The behaviour at Opera & FF is correct!
    >


    Please don't top-post, took me 20 sec to mess about sorting the
    order out somewhat. So are you saying now that FF is right and
    "good" whereas you thought it was "bad" before? Without a url,
    you need to be especially clear.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 11, 2006
    #7
  8. "dorayme" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > In article <ebhkb4$cdl$>,
    > "Michael Weis" <> wrote:
    >
    > > dorayme wrote:
    > > > In article <ebhdfg$t55$>,
    > > > "Michael Weis" <> wrote:
    > > >

    >
    > > >> if I define "scrollbar=yes" then
    > > >>
    > > >> - in IE only a vertical scrollbar is shown (good)
    > > >> - in IE and FF also a horizontal scrollbar is shown but deactivated
    > > >> (grey) (bad)
    > > >
    > > > Give us a url to demonstrate what you say when you have
    > > > scrollbar="yes", it does not happen like you say on my copy of
    > > > Mac IE , nor Safari, nor - and I bet quids this is the same on
    > > > Windows for the following - Firefox. If you have things right,
    > > > for scrollbars="yes", it behaves beautifully.

    >
    >
    > > The behaviour at Opera & FF is correct!
    > >

    >
    > Please don't top-post, took me 20 sec to mess about sorting the
    > order out somewhat. So are you saying now that FF is right and
    > "good" whereas you thought it was "bad" before? Without a url,
    > you need to be especially clear.




    Hello dorayme,
    I am under the impression that I know now who you are not...

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    Vad kallar man Sverige på italienska?
    E l´Italia in svedese?
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Aug 11, 2006
    #8
  9. Michael Weis

    dorayme Guest

    In article <ebhkb4$cdl$>,
    "Michael Weis" <> wrote:

    > Hi,
    >
    > the site is on my notebook at this time --> no URL
    > But I will give you one with an nearly empty site soon. I used one yesterday
    > for verifying this behaviour.
    >
    > It is IE 6.0.2900.2180 on Win XP sp2.
    >
    > The behaviour at Opera & FF is correct!
    >
    > Regards,
    >
    > Michael


    I took another look, fresh this morning, you are right about the
    greyed out, it looked so natural on an old site I made (that had
    just 2 frames, left nav and right content with grey border
    allowed) that I missed that it was a grey scollbar. There were no
    arrows, nothing to indicate a scollbar to the average website
    user, it is a subtlety, a place for the scroll bar to happen
    without it suddenly popping in to disturb things, it serves to be
    a graceful phantom ready to spring into life on scrollbar="yes".

    I now realise what you mean by "bad" but correct. I don't think
    it is bad at all but you cannot know how natural, it can look
    with the sketchy page at the url. There it looks strange and
    stands out. Make a real page, with background colours, allow
    frame borders or not as suits the design and you will see that
    "yes" is not at all so bad...

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 11, 2006
    #9
  10. Michael Weis

    dorayme Guest

    In article <mw7Dg.12652$>,
    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:

    > Hello dorayme,
    > I am under the impression that I know now who you are not...


    Fine. Freedom is a good thing. You did not need to do all that
    quoting to say this. Have a nice day.

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Aug 11, 2006
    #10
  11. "dorayme" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > In article <mw7Dg.12652$>,
    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote:
    >

    You did not need to do all that
    > quoting to say this.


    You are right. I did not.

    --
    Luigi Donatello Asero
    https://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/
    ä½ å«ä»€ä¹ˆ ?
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Aug 12, 2006
    #11
  12. "Michael Weis" <> wrote in message
    news:ebhdfg$t55$...
    > Hello all,
    >
    > as a non-professional in these things, I searched for this topic but found
    > no satisfying answer:
    >
    > I have to create a site with 3 frames. (Please no diskussion about the

    sense
    > of using frames...)


    [SNIP]

    We all know what a pain in the neck they are to work with so I won't jump on
    yours. Suffice it to say that I'm not sure if an asprin will be any help!
    However, just in case ur interested, I'm developing to similar compositional
    requirements. The template is still incomplete, but take a look at
    www.geoceanis.com for a possible alternative...

    --
    Timothy Casey GPEMC! >> 11950 is the 2email
    Terms & conditions apply. See www.fieldcraft.biz/GPEMC
    Discover valid interoperable web menus, IE security, TSR Control,
    & the most advanced speed reading application @ www.fieldcraft.biz
    Number 11950 - GPEMC! Replace number with 11950, Aug 12, 2006
    #12
  13. Michael Weis

    Michael Weis Guest

    Hi Rich,

    rwap wrote:
    > Well there is some good news in that IE v7 (beta 3), the "auto" value
    > only gives the vertical scroll bar as per Opera v9 and Firefox, so I
    > would stick with auto for the time being.


    these are good news. For now I will use the "yes" value and change it
    when the IE v7 age comes..... ( and it _will_ come, even is a lot of css
    stuff is still unsupported in this version)

    Thank you,

    Michael
    Michael Weis, Aug 12, 2006
    #13
  14. Michael Weis

    Michael Weis Guest

    Hi Timothy,

    >> (Please no diskussion about the sense of using frames...)


    > We all know what a pain in the neck they are to work with so I won't
    > jump on yours.

    Thank you :) In this case I have no choice.

    > but take a look at www.geoceanis.com for a possible alternative...


    Looks good, interesting ideas & styles.
    For my own site ( http://www.weis-it.de ) I will use css styles
    for static parts too. But as a non-professional (in web-authoring)
    I have to learn much more about css-based layouts.

    Thank you & nice weekend,

    Michael
    Michael Weis, Aug 12, 2006
    #14
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