Question about sidebars in Designing a site.

Discussion in 'HTML' started by red_dragon2983, Mar 22, 2006.

  1. I have a web design question:
    "TO HAVE A SIDEBAR OR NOT TO HAVE A SIDEBAR"

    I am [very slowly :) ] developing a weblog site, and I do not know if
    I should have a sidebar. At times it can be useful, like links and
    interactive content, but it can also be annoying, like as if I decide
    to have a very skinny design (which I do not think I am going to do.)

    Thank you for your opinions on this issue.

    --
    n: mark seymour
    e:
    w: http://hidden.shadeddarkess.net/
    red_dragon2983, Mar 22, 2006
    #1
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  2. red_dragon2983

    Jemdam.com Guest


    >I have a web design question:
    > "TO HAVE A SIDEBAR OR NOT TO HAVE A SIDEBAR"
    >

    Some will say yes, some will say no. I say YES! I have a site which I think
    it works well. You can store all the data you want users to see all the
    time, have a look http://www.pubtricks.com (there are some firefox problems
    at the moment so don't flame me about that!). I have 2 side bars that I
    change on some pages and display random content via PHP. Lots of people go
    800 wide still. 90% of people now have 1024 so I would not worry about the
    width. Keep important data on the left and stuff you can afford to loose on
    the right.
    Jemdam.com, Mar 22, 2006
    #2
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  3. On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jemdam.com wrote:

    > >I have a web design question:
    > > "TO HAVE A SIDEBAR OR NOT TO HAVE A SIDEBAR"
    > >

    > Some will say yes, some will say no. I say YES! I have a site which I think
    > it works well. You can store all the data you want users to see all the
    > time, have a look http://www.pubtricks.com


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    Not impressed.

    > (there are some firefox problems
    > at the moment so don't flame me about that!).


    Firefox is pretty close to being a standards-conforming browser, so
    there's little excuse for having problems with it.

    So I tried Opera instead - and got an unreadable mess.

    Still not impressed.


    W3C QA Markup Validation Service
    v0.7.2

    Result: Failed validation, 726 errors


    You aiming for some kind of record?
    Alan J. Flavell, Mar 22, 2006
    #3
  4. Your site looks real nice.. I see the problem with the text on the
    sidebar.
    I think I'm going to stick with a sidebar on the right and content on
    the left... I keep on re-doing the layout cause most of the time I try
    to emulate other sites... and I'm going to keep on going until I
    finally get something original (which is very hard IMHO.)
    red_dragon2983, Mar 22, 2006
    #4
  5. Jemdam.com wrote:

    > have a look http://www.pubtricks.com (there are some firefox problems
    > at the moment so don't flame me about that!)


    Not just Firefox ... I can't read it. Dim grey text on a black
    background with this:

    <font face=arial size=-1 color=#808080>

    Minus 1? Smaller than flyspecks. After increasing the size about 150%
    or so, I can sort of begin to make out the words.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 22, 2006
    #5
  6. red_dragon2983

    dorayme Guest

    In article
    <311Uf.15987$>,
    "Beauregard T. Shagnasty" <> wrote:

    > Jemdam.com wrote:
    >
    > > have a look http://www.pubtricks.com (there are some firefox problems
    > > at the moment so don't flame me about that!)

    >
    > Not just Firefox ... I can't read it. Dim grey text on a black
    > background with this:
    >
    > <font face=arial size=-1 color=#808080>
    >
    > Minus 1? Smaller than flyspecks. After increasing the size about 150%
    > or so, I can sort of begin to make out the words.


    Can I get in on this too please? Sometimes I am in a mood to beat
    up folk who are being pummelled by others, they are lying there
    bruised and beaten, innocent as hell, and well, why not get a few
    free kicks in and see what it feels like.... Just a mo while I
    walk back like a fast bowler to get a bit of momentum:

    The http://www.pubtricks.com takes ages (minute or more) to load
    and the result in Safari (a pretty fast and reasonably compliant
    browser) - after upping the text size quite a bit to be readable
    (in principle) and scrolling just a touch down is:

    http://dorayme.150m.com/pics/pubTricksOnSafari.jpg

    OK, how do I feel? Rotten, actually.... but the deed is done.

    I will think of a suitable punishment for myself when my men
    return from hunting down Luigi's attackers in Europe... (they
    have found and "dealt" with one of them so far - just btw. Yeah,
    I know, Luigi does not want this sort of thing but his way is not
    mine and one day he will come to appreciate the justice involved)

    --
    dorayme
    dorayme, Mar 22, 2006
    #6
  7. dorayme wrote:

    > The http://www.pubtricks.com takes ages (minute or more) to load


    Hey, good on you for pointing that out. I didn't notice it on my fast
    cable.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 22, 2006
    #7
  8. red_dragon2983

    Toby Inkster Guest

    red_dragon2983 wrote:

    > I have a web design question:
    > "TO HAVE A SIDEBAR OR NOT TO HAVE A SIDEBAR"


    I would say yes, have one.

    Reason: 99% of your visitors will normally spend 99% of their time on
    other people's sites. They are familiar with how other people's sites
    work. Probably 90% of those other sites have at least one sidebar. So
    your visitors have about an 88% expectation of a sidebar.

    If you have only a tiny amount of navigation (4-5 links, maybe a search
    form), then it might be possible to restrict the navigation it to your
    header area.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS
    Contact Me ~ http://tobyinkster.co.uk/contact
    Toby Inkster, Mar 22, 2006
    #8
  9. red_dragon2983

    Jemdam.com Guest

    "Alan J. Flavell" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    > On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jemdam.com wrote



    Alan, you are a jerk. The post was about side bars and not MY HTML CODE.
    Some people on here are just a real pain. I want to provide feedback to a
    user. My site my have errors but this is not the topic.
    Jemdam.com, Mar 22, 2006
    #9
  10. red_dragon2983

    Jemdam.com Guest


    > Not just Firefox ... I can't read it. Dim grey text on a black
    > background with this:
    >
    > <font face=arial size=-1 color=#808080>
    >
    > Minus 1? Smaller than flyspecks. After increasing the size about 150%
    > or so, I can sort of begin to make out the words.
    >

    I have to get a lot of detail on each page, -1 and -2 are the only options
    or you get a site that looks crap. I have a sub note book and can read it
    perfectly well.
    Jemdam.com, Mar 22, 2006
    #10
  11. red_dragon2983

    Jemdam.com Guest


    >
    >> The http://www.pubtricks.com takes ages (minute or more) to load

    >
    > Hey, good on you for pointing that out. I didn't notice it on my fast
    > cable.
    >

    It is on a dedicated server with a 10 meg line and on my 2 meg line at home
    it runs fine.
    Jemdam.com, Mar 22, 2006
    #11
  12. red_dragon2983

    Jemdam.com Guest

    All:

    The orignal post was about side bars and not my HTML and my site. Amazing
    how off topic it can go in a few minutes!
    Jemdam.com, Mar 22, 2006
    #12

  13. > Firefox is pretty close to being a standards-conforming browser, so
    > there's little excuse for having problems with it.


    Is there any full-conforming browser? I mean: good looks, bad
    userinterface or something? Or is Firefox the best?
    Sorry for going off topic here.
    Gernot Frisch, Mar 22, 2006
    #13
  14. red_dragon2983

    Neredbojias Guest

    With neither quill nor qualm, Jemdam.com quothed:

    >
    > "Alan J. Flavell" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > > On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jemdam.com wrote

    >
    >
    > Alan, you are a jerk. The post was about side bars and not MY HTML CODE.
    > Some people on here are just a real pain. I want to provide feedback to a
    > user. My site my have errors but this is not the topic.


    Yeah, but what I wanna know is does your sidebars have drinks?

    --
    Neredbojias
    Contrary to popular belief, it is believable.
    Neredbojias, Mar 22, 2006
    #14
  15. red_dragon2983

    Andy Dingley Guest

    red_dragon2983 wrote:

    > I do not know if I should have a sidebar.


    Yes.

    Screens are big these days, so wide windows (in pixel terms) are a
    reasonable expectation. At the same time, the old usability standard
    of not making the text lines too long (in character terms) still
    stands.

    So the upshot is, we've got width to burn.

    Go for your sidebar. It's either useful itself, or it adds a whitespace
    margin around the text block. Both of these are generally good things
    from a usability aspect.

    If your users' screens are narrow (new devices) then they'll get forced
    into sideways scrolling. As a sidebar isn't generally needed
    simultaneously with reading the main content, then this isn't an
    unreasonable constraint for the big content / small screen context.
    Good design techniques help too (i.e. don't lay it out with a <table>
    and expect it to be flexible design for funny window sizes).
    Andy Dingley, Mar 22, 2006
    #15
  16. Jemdam.com wrote:

    >> Not just Firefox ... I can't read it. Dim grey text on a black
    >> background with this:
    >>
    >> <font face=arial size=-1 color=#808080>
    >>
    >> Minus 1? Smaller than flyspecks. After increasing the size about
    >> 150% or so, I can sort of begin to make out the words.
    >>

    > I have to get a lot of detail on each page, -1 and -2 are the only
    > options or you get a site that looks crap. I have a sub note book and
    > can read it perfectly well.


    So then .. you have the best eyes on the planet? Better than 20/20 and
    no colorblindness, eh?

    Do you not care about visitors who may have vision problems? My vision,
    with the spectacles, is actually quite good, and I am sitting closer and
    squinting to read your content.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 22, 2006
    #16
  17. Jemdam.com wrote:

    > "Alan J. Flavell" <> wrote
    >> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006, Jemdam.com wrote

    >
    > Alan, you are a jerk. The post was about side bars and not MY HTML
    > CODE. Some people on here are just a real pain. I want to provide
    > feedback to a user. My site my have errors but this is not the topic.


    You offered your site as an example to the OP. The rest of us have been
    attempting to show why your site is not a good example. Since sidebars
    are created in CODE, your CODE (and design) is fair game for criticism.

    --
    -bts
    -Warning: I brake for lawn deer
    Beauregard T. Shagnasty, Mar 22, 2006
    #17
  18. red_dragon2983

    JDS Guest

    On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 08:39:37 +0000, Jemdam.com wrote:

    > I have a sub note book and can read it
    > perfectly well.


    Key word there: "I" (meaning "you")

    YOU can read it does not mean anyone else can. I have excellent vision,
    but I don't have a sub-notebook, I have a 20" monitor at 1600x1200 pixel
    resolution. The text is smaller than a tits on a flea. Plus it is light
    grey. There are plenty of ways to increase the text size and keep the
    site looking nice.

    It's your site, do what you want, but don't expect a lot of visitors. Or
    at least don't expect them to stick around.

    later...

    --
    JDS | lid
    | http://www.newtnotes.com
    DJMBS | http://newtnotes.com/doctor-jeff-master-brainsurgeon/
    JDS, Mar 22, 2006
    #18
  19. red_dragon2983

    Andy Dingley Guest

    Jemdam.com wrote:

    > I have to get a lot of detail on each page, -1 and -2 are the only options
    > or you get a site that looks crap.


    No they're not. You've found this newsgroup - you can search it (or
    ciwah or ciwas) and find out just why not, and how to fix it instead.

    You have an interesting page with good content. It really would be an
    interesting and useful exercise to make it work properly with fluid
    layout based on good markup.
    Andy Dingley, Mar 22, 2006
    #19
  20. red_dragon2983

    Toby Inkster Guest

    Toby Inkster, Mar 22, 2006
    #20
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