Question about sidebars in Designing a site.

R

red_dragon2983

I have a web design question:
"TO HAVE A SIDEBAR OR NOT TO HAVE A SIDEBAR"

I am [very slowly :) ] developing a weblog site, and I do not know if
I should have a sidebar. At times it can be useful, like links and
interactive content, but it can also be annoying, like as if I decide
to have a very skinny design (which I do not think I am going to do.)

Thank you for your opinions on this issue.
 
J

Jemdam.com

I have a web design question:
"TO HAVE A SIDEBAR OR NOT TO HAVE A SIDEBAR"
Some will say yes, some will say no. I say YES! I have a site which I think
it works well. You can store all the data you want users to see all the
time, have a look http://www.pubtricks.com (there are some firefox problems
at the moment so don't flame me about that!). I have 2 side bars that I
change on some pages and display random content via PHP. Lots of people go
800 wide still. 90% of people now have 1024 so I would not worry about the
width. Keep important data on the left and stuff you can afford to loose on
the right.
 
A

Alan J. Flavell

Some will say yes, some will say no. I say YES! I have a site which I think
it works well. You can store all the data you want users to see all the
time, have a look http://www.pubtricks.com

[USEMAP:image01.jpg]

[logo.gif]
d i g i t a l - m a g i c

[freevideos.gif]

[USEMAP:menunew.jpg]

[databank.gif]

[18-small.jpg] under 18?
click here

Like Us? Link Us?
[banner03.gif]

[redline.gif]

[redline.gif]

Not impressed.
(there are some firefox problems
at the moment so don't flame me about that!).

Firefox is pretty close to being a standards-conforming browser, so
there's little excuse for having problems with it.

So I tried Opera instead - and got an unreadable mess.

Still not impressed.


W3C QA Markup Validation Service
v0.7.2

Result: Failed validation, 726 errors


You aiming for some kind of record?
 
R

red_dragon2983

Your site looks real nice.. I see the problem with the text on the
sidebar.
I think I'm going to stick with a sidebar on the right and content on
the left... I keep on re-doing the layout cause most of the time I try
to emulate other sites... and I'm going to keep on going until I
finally get something original (which is very hard IMHO.)
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Jemdam.com said:
have a look http://www.pubtricks.com (there are some firefox problems
at the moment so don't flame me about that!)

Not just Firefox ... I can't read it. Dim grey text on a black
background with this:

<font face=arial size=-1 color=#808080>

Minus 1? Smaller than flyspecks. After increasing the size about 150%
or so, I can sort of begin to make out the words.
 
D

dorayme

Beauregard T. Shagnasty said:
Not just Firefox ... I can't read it. Dim grey text on a black
background with this:

<font face=arial size=-1 color=#808080>

Minus 1? Smaller than flyspecks. After increasing the size about 150%
or so, I can sort of begin to make out the words.

Can I get in on this too please? Sometimes I am in a mood to beat
up folk who are being pummelled by others, they are lying there
bruised and beaten, innocent as hell, and well, why not get a few
free kicks in and see what it feels like.... Just a mo while I
walk back like a fast bowler to get a bit of momentum:

The http://www.pubtricks.com takes ages (minute or more) to load
and the result in Safari (a pretty fast and reasonably compliant
browser) - after upping the text size quite a bit to be readable
(in principle) and scrolling just a touch down is:

http://dorayme.150m.com/pics/pubTricksOnSafari.jpg

OK, how do I feel? Rotten, actually.... but the deed is done.

I will think of a suitable punishment for myself when my men
return from hunting down Luigi's attackers in Europe... (they
have found and "dealt" with one of them so far - just btw. Yeah,
I know, Luigi does not want this sort of thing but his way is not
mine and one day he will come to appreciate the justice involved)
 
T

Toby Inkster

red_dragon2983 said:
I have a web design question:
"TO HAVE A SIDEBAR OR NOT TO HAVE A SIDEBAR"

I would say yes, have one.

Reason: 99% of your visitors will normally spend 99% of their time on
other people's sites. They are familiar with how other people's sites
work. Probably 90% of those other sites have at least one sidebar. So
your visitors have about an 88% expectation of a sidebar.

If you have only a tiny amount of navigation (4-5 links, maybe a search
form), then it might be possible to restrict the navigation it to your
header area.
 
J

Jemdam.com

Alan, you are a jerk. The post was about side bars and not MY HTML CODE.
Some people on here are just a real pain. I want to provide feedback to a
user. My site my have errors but this is not the topic.
 
J

Jemdam.com

Not just Firefox ... I can't read it. Dim grey text on a black
background with this:

<font face=arial size=-1 color=#808080>

Minus 1? Smaller than flyspecks. After increasing the size about 150%
or so, I can sort of begin to make out the words.
I have to get a lot of detail on each page, -1 and -2 are the only options
or you get a site that looks crap. I have a sub note book and can read it
perfectly well.
 
J

Jemdam.com

Hey, good on you for pointing that out. I didn't notice it on my fast
cable.
It is on a dedicated server with a 10 meg line and on my 2 meg line at home
it runs fine.
 
J

Jemdam.com

All:

The orignal post was about side bars and not my HTML and my site. Amazing
how off topic it can go in a few minutes!
 
G

Gernot Frisch

Firefox is pretty close to being a standards-conforming browser, so
there's little excuse for having problems with it.

Is there any full-conforming browser? I mean: good looks, bad
userinterface or something? Or is Firefox the best?
Sorry for going off topic here.
 
N

Neredbojias

With neither quill nor qualm, Jemdam.com quothed:
Alan, you are a jerk. The post was about side bars and not MY HTML CODE.
Some people on here are just a real pain. I want to provide feedback to a
user. My site my have errors but this is not the topic.

Yeah, but what I wanna know is does your sidebars have drinks?
 
A

Andy Dingley

red_dragon2983 said:
I do not know if I should have a sidebar.

Yes.

Screens are big these days, so wide windows (in pixel terms) are a
reasonable expectation. At the same time, the old usability standard
of not making the text lines too long (in character terms) still
stands.

So the upshot is, we've got width to burn.

Go for your sidebar. It's either useful itself, or it adds a whitespace
margin around the text block. Both of these are generally good things
from a usability aspect.

If your users' screens are narrow (new devices) then they'll get forced
into sideways scrolling. As a sidebar isn't generally needed
simultaneously with reading the main content, then this isn't an
unreasonable constraint for the big content / small screen context.
Good design techniques help too (i.e. don't lay it out with a <table>
and expect it to be flexible design for funny window sizes).
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Jemdam.com said:
I have to get a lot of detail on each page, -1 and -2 are the only
options or you get a site that looks crap. I have a sub note book and
can read it perfectly well.

So then .. you have the best eyes on the planet? Better than 20/20 and
no colorblindness, eh?

Do you not care about visitors who may have vision problems? My vision,
with the spectacles, is actually quite good, and I am sitting closer and
squinting to read your content.
 
B

Beauregard T. Shagnasty

Jemdam.com said:
Alan, you are a jerk. The post was about side bars and not MY HTML
CODE. Some people on here are just a real pain. I want to provide
feedback to a user. My site my have errors but this is not the topic.

You offered your site as an example to the OP. The rest of us have been
attempting to show why your site is not a good example. Since sidebars
are created in CODE, your CODE (and design) is fair game for criticism.
 
J

JDS

I have a sub note book and can read it
perfectly well.

Key word there: "I" (meaning "you")

YOU can read it does not mean anyone else can. I have excellent vision,
but I don't have a sub-notebook, I have a 20" monitor at 1600x1200 pixel
resolution. The text is smaller than a tits on a flea. Plus it is light
grey. There are plenty of ways to increase the text size and keep the
site looking nice.

It's your site, do what you want, but don't expect a lot of visitors. Or
at least don't expect them to stick around.

later...
 
A

Andy Dingley

Jemdam.com said:
I have to get a lot of detail on each page, -1 and -2 are the only options
or you get a site that looks crap.

No they're not. You've found this newsgroup - you can search it (or
ciwah or ciwas) and find out just why not, and how to fix it instead.

You have an interesting page with good content. It really would be an
interesting and useful exercise to make it work properly with fluid
layout based on good markup.
 

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