Rant: One more browser to test

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Animesh K, Jul 18, 2007.

  1. Animesh K

    Animesh K Guest

    Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.

    What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?
     
    Animesh K, Jul 18, 2007
    #1
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  2. Animesh K

    Animesh K Guest

    Animesh K wrote:
    > Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >
    > What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    > test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?


    Sorry to follow up my own post...

    I should not have said "just released." I meant I just noticed
    GNU-released Iceweasel. I figured the browser was released a while ago.
     
    Animesh K, Jul 18, 2007
    #2
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  3. Animesh K

    Ben C Guest

    On 2007-07-18, Animesh K <> wrote:
    > Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >
    > What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    > test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?


    It's almost good enough but not considered free enough by some. See
    http://www.gnu.org/software/gnuzilla.

    It will probably render things mostly the same as Firefox.

    The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.
     
    Ben C, Jul 18, 2007
    #3
  4. On 2007-07-18, Animesh K wrote:
    > Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >
    > What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    > test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?


    Iceweasel is a rebranding of Firefox.

    --
    Chris F.A. Johnson <http://cfaj.freeshell.org>
    ===================================================================
    Author:
    Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
     
    Chris F.A. Johnson, Jul 18, 2007
    #4
  5. Animesh K

    Bergamot Guest

    Animesh K wrote:
    > Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >
    > What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    > test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?


    According to the link Ben C posted, it's nothing to get worked up about.

    It's extremely unlikely Iceweasel will render differently than Firefox,
    Seamonkey, Netscape, or any of the other gecko-based browsers.

    Same browser, different wrapping and +/- a few features. That's all.

    --
    Berg
     
    Bergamot, Jul 18, 2007
    #5
  6. Animesh K

    dorayme Guest

    In article <>,
    Ben C <> wrote:

    > The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    > their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.


    Now that is an excellent point. (It probably follows from some
    theorem in economics. <g>)

    --
    dorayme
     
    dorayme, Jul 18, 2007
    #6
  7. Animesh K <> wrote:

    > Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >
    > What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    > test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?


    Microsoft has browser monopoly => bad
    Mozilla Foundation has browser monopoly => good

    Some days my head pounds ...

    --
    Joel.
     
    Joel Shepherd, Jul 19, 2007
    #7
  8. Animesh K

    J.O. Aho Guest

    Animesh K wrote:
    > Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >
    > What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    > test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?


    It's just SeaMonkey and FireFox in new cloths and with a few new features, so
    it's really not a new browser, it's just like Galoen, but better.

    --

    //Aho
     
    J.O. Aho, Jul 19, 2007
    #8
  9. Animesh K

    El Kabong Guest

    "Joel Shepherd" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Animesh K <> wrote:
    >
    >> Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >>
    >> What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    >> test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?

    >
    > Microsoft has browser monopoly => bad
    > Mozilla Foundation has browser monopoly => good
    >
    > Some days my head pounds ...


    Mine too.

    Remember when Netscape was "free" before they started charging for it and
    then were forced by IE to make it "free" again?

    Back in '94 and '95, the buzz was that Netscape is amazingly better than
    Chameleon and "free" and the poor folks at Quartermaster who gave Andreessen
    his start, were pushed right out of the business. Then, with Chameleon gone,
    Netscape had the monopoly and soon brought out the brass knuckles, first
    $14.95, then 24.95, then 49.95, and finally good ol' Marc was sticking it to
    us at $69.95 a copy by late 1996. But good ol' Billy G. started giving away
    IE with Win95 and soon Netscape was crying foul. (Don't you just love it
    when the bully gets bullied?) and now, thanks to MS, any browser worth
    owning is free.

    Halleluiah!

    In the meantime, the Mac fanboys have continued facing toward Steve Jobs
    five times a day on their knees and noses praising any garbage Apple Corp
    squats and dumps on them. Safari? Saints preserve us.

    Now it's Ice Weasel?

    Yep, I'm getting a headache... again.

    End of my rant.

    El
     
    El Kabong, Jul 19, 2007
    #9
  10. El Kabong wrote:

    > Back in '94 and '95, the buzz was that Netscape is amazingly better than
    > Chameleon and "free" and the poor folks at Quartermaster who gave Andreessen


    Quarterdeck?


    --
    Blinky RLU 297263
    Killing all posts from Google Groups
    The Usenet Improvement Project: http://blinkynet.net/comp/uip5.html
     
    Blinky the Shark, Jul 19, 2007
    #10
  11. Animesh K

    Ben C Guest

    On 2007-07-18, Bergamot <> wrote:
    > Animesh K wrote:
    >> Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >>
    >> What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    >> test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?

    >
    > According to the link Ben C posted, it's nothing to get worked up about.
    >
    > It's extremely unlikely Iceweasel will render differently than Firefox,
    > Seamonkey, Netscape, or any of the other gecko-based browsers.
    >
    > Same browser, different wrapping and +/- a few features. That's all.


    Yes although one thing I'm not completely clear about-- do they
    continuously integrate Mozilla sources for Gecko or is it a fork, i.e.
    they took a snapshot and went their own way after that?
     
    Ben C, Jul 19, 2007
    #11
  12. Animesh K

    Bergamot Guest

    Ben C wrote:
    >
    > Yes although one thing I'm not completely clear about-- do they
    > continuously integrate Mozilla sources for Gecko or is it a fork, i.e.
    > they took a snapshot and went their own way after that?


    You have to ask the folks who are distributing the browser, but it would
    be foolish to ignore bug fixes and enhancements to the core rendering
    engine.

    --
    Berg
     
    Bergamot, Jul 19, 2007
    #12
  13. On Jul 18, 5:11 pm, Ben C <> wrote:
    > The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    > their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.


    I disagree, I think a single browser would be best. And yes, it would
    be the de-facto standard which I see as a good thing.
     
    Travis Newbury, Jul 19, 2007
    #13
  14. Animesh K

    Tim Streater Guest

    In article <>,
    Travis Newbury <> wrote:

    > On Jul 18, 5:11 pm, Ben C <> wrote:
    > > The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    > > their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.

    >
    > I disagree, I think a single browser would be best. And yes, it would
    > be the de-facto standard which I see as a good thing.


    Not Explorer then. I favour Safari.
     
    Tim Streater, Jul 19, 2007
    #14
  15. Animesh K

    Ben C Guest

    On 2007-07-19, Travis Newbury <> wrote:
    > On Jul 18, 5:11 pm, Ben C <> wrote:
    >> The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    >> their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.

    >
    > I disagree, I think a single browser would be best. And yes, it would
    > be the de-facto standard which I see as a good thing.


    The problem is that something that's full of bugs and quirks is
    unpredictable and annoying to work with even if you do have the
    consolation of knowing that once it works on your desktop it will work
    the same (up to a point) for everyone.

    If there was only one browser but that had a clear published
    specification that it implemented correctly that wouldn't be so bad. But
    with only one browser around there's much less pressure on its vendor
    either to publish such a specification or to stick to it. So web
    development becomes a frustrating trial-and-error process of throwing
    mud at the wall.
     
    Ben C, Jul 19, 2007
    #15
  16. Animesh K

    CptDondo Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:
    > On Jul 18, 5:11 pm, Ben C <> wrote:
    >> The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    >> their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.

    >
    > I disagree, I think a single browser would be best. And yes, it would
    > be the de-facto standard which I see as a good thing.
    >


    Google monoculture, dutch elm disease, and probably some others that
    escape me ATM.
     
    CptDondo, Jul 19, 2007
    #16
  17. Animesh K

    Animesh K Guest

    Tim Streater wrote:
    > In article <>,
    > Travis Newbury <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Jul 18, 5:11 pm, Ben C <> wrote:
    >>> The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    >>> their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.

    >> I disagree, I think a single browser would be best. And yes, it would
    >> be the de-facto standard which I see as a good thing.

    >
    > Not Explorer then. I favour Safari.


    Ewww. Safari doesn't even cuts n paste properly in Windows. I copied a
    paragraph and for some reason it pasted only one and half line from the
    paragraph. I tried 3-4 times using Edit-> Copy or Rightclick->Copy etc.
    Finally had to refresh the page to get it right.
     
    Animesh K, Jul 19, 2007
    #17
  18. Animesh K

    Animesh K Guest

    Bergamot wrote:
    > Animesh K wrote:
    >> Errr, GNU just released Iceweasel. Ice isn't fire and weasel isn't a fox.
    >>
    >> What is causing a new open-source browser (there were already so many to
    >> test, Firefox, Opera, Safari, IE6, IE7, Netscape)? Wasn't FF good enough?

    >
    > According to the link Ben C posted, it's nothing to get worked up about.
    >
    > It's extremely unlikely Iceweasel will render differently than Firefox,
    > Seamonkey, Netscape, or any of the other gecko-based browsers.
    >
    > Same browser, different wrapping and +/- a few features. That's all.
    >


    It may fork very soon. That's what bothers me at the moment.
     
    Animesh K, Jul 19, 2007
    #18
  19. Animesh K <> writes:

    > Tim Streater wrote:
    >> In article <>,
    >> Travis Newbury <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Jul 18, 5:11 pm, Ben C <> wrote:
    >>>> The more browsers the better. If there are only one or two then all
    >>>> their bugs and quirks become de facto standards.
    >>> I disagree, I think a single browser would be best. And yes, it would
    >>> be the de-facto standard which I see as a good thing.

    >>
    >> Not Explorer then. I favour Safari.

    >
    > Ewww. Safari doesn't even cuts n paste properly in Windows.


    It's a *beta* - have you reported the bug to Apple?

    sherm--

    --
    Web Hosting by West Virginians, for West Virginians: http://wv-www.net
    Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
     
    Sherm Pendley, Jul 19, 2007
    #19
  20. Animesh K

    Bergamot Guest

    Travis Newbury wrote:
    >
    > I think a single browser would be best.


    I don't care if there is one rendering engine or 10, as long as they all
    give comparable results. Browser bugs can be a PITA sometimes, but
    usually it's just IE crap that has to be dealt with differently.

    As for only one browser choice, that would suck. People who actually
    choose a browser don't usually do it just because of how it renders, but
    for what other features it has. For example, I don't like IE, Firefox or
    Netscape and cringe at the thought of being stuck with any of them.
    Opera and Safari don't have anything special that I particularly want,
    either, though I could tolerate them if I had to. On the other hand, I
    do like Seamonkey and will happily use it until something better comes
    along. Note that "better" is extremely subjective.

    > And yes, it would
    > be the de-facto standard which I see as a good thing.


    There goes the incentive for innovation and improvement, and not just
    where rendering is concerned. :-\

    --
    Berg
     
    Bergamot, Jul 19, 2007
    #20
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