Re: A good IDE??

Discussion in 'Java' started by stig, Jul 30, 2003.

  1. stig

    stig Guest

    Tim Tyler wrote:
    > In comp.lang.java.programmer Jon A. Cruz <> wrote:
    >
    > : Aside from being more responsive (even on a 1.7 GHz machine), the main
    > : thing is that Emacs is a very mature editor/IDE by programmers for
    > : programmers. [...]
    >
    > A sad day when "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping" is described as
    > responsive ;-)


    emacs is not swapping, where did you get that from, i use emac on
    different platforms and it does not result in any swapping.

    dont be afraid of the freedom emacs gives you.
    in the beginning emacs tend to feel like hell broke loose in the
    computer, but once you find out the basic commands you will never leave it.
    have used it for 2 years, it outperforms all other editors i have tried,
    editing using commands (cut, copy, paste, search, replace, etc.) is done
    conciderably faster in emacs then in most other editors, especially if
    you are on *nix-platforms.

    stig
     
    stig, Jul 30, 2003
    #1
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  2. stig

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Wed, 30 Jul 2003 15:15:41 +0200, stig <>
    wrote or quoted :

    >dont be afraid of the freedom emacs gives you.
    >in the beginning emacs tend to feel like hell broke loose in the
    >computer,


    I was on a project where the boss was a EMACS ethusiast and wanted us
    to use Linux and EMACS. What a nightmare that went on for months.
    EVERYTHING sends you back to square 1 to learn again -- even cut and
    paste. Every reflex honed over decades was useless. EMACS is its own
    universe. I flipped to SlickEdit which can be configured for CUA and
    suddenly I could get work done again.

    You need no know a lot before you can even tie your shoelaces. This is
    very frustrating when you are trying to meet a deadline. You can see
    the power of the LISP, but without a substantial time investment, that
    power is out of your grasp.

    I wrote an EMACS mini guide for people getting started to help deal
    with the overwhelm. See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/linux.html


    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 30, 2003
    #2
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  3. stig

    Tim Tyler Guest

    In comp.lang.java.programmer stig <> wrote:
    : Tim Tyler wrote:

    :> A sad day when "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping" is described as
    :> responsive ;-)

    : emacs is not swapping, where did you get that from [...]

    Search for "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping" and you will see my sources.

    : dont be afraid of the freedom emacs gives you.
    : in the beginning emacs tend to feel like hell broke loose in the
    : computer, but once you find out the basic commands you will never leave it.

    Emacs is a dinosaur.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/
     
    Tim Tyler, Jul 30, 2003
    #3
  4. javadesigner wrote:

    I like IntelliJ alot. I've spoke with few who have used it. It's the
    only environment I've ever used for Java developement. Anyone know
    weaknesses in that other ISE's may be better at?

    >
    >
    >> I flipped to SlickEdit which can be configured for CUA and
    >> suddenly I could get work done again.
    >>

    >
    > SlickEdit is nice but it's amazing to me that there is no way
    > to enable line wrapping on slickedit (even on the latest 8.x
    > release). So if you have long lines (common in java println(..)
    > statements and/or html text) that scroll past the right end of
    > your window, slickedit cannot linewrap and show you that line
    > in it's entirety. You *will* have to scroll to the right to
    > see the rest of that line.
    >
    > This is so mind-blowingly stupid, I cannot even comprehend what
    > the slickedit team was thinking when they decided not to implement this.
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > --j
    >
    >
     
    Greg Williams, Jul 31, 2003
    #4
  5. stig

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 13:51:41 -0400, javadesigner
    <> wrote or quoted :

    >slickedit cannot linewrap and show you that line
    >in it's entirety.


    I use the beautify command repeatedly. This keeps lines short. I had
    never even noticed the problem until you brought it up.

    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
     
    Roedy Green, Jul 31, 2003
    #5
  6. stig

    _.-= Guest

    Suggestion 1:
    Send the guys at SlickEdit an email with your request

    Suggestion 2:
    Get an 1800x1600 video adapter and monitor! :)


    "javadesigner" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > > I flipped to SlickEdit which can be configured for CUA and
    > > suddenly I could get work done again.
    > >

    >
    > SlickEdit is nice but it's amazing to me that there is no way
    > to enable line wrapping on slickedit (even on the latest 8.x
    > release). So if you have long lines (common in java println(..)
    > statements and/or html text) that scroll past the right end of
    > your window, slickedit cannot linewrap and show you that line
    > in it's entirety. You *will* have to scroll to the right to
    > see the rest of that line.
    >
    > This is so mind-blowingly stupid, I cannot even comprehend what
    > the slickedit team was thinking when they decided not to
    > implement this.
    >
    > Best regards,
    >
    > --j
    >
    >
     
    _.-=, Jul 31, 2003
    #6
  7. stig

    Drew Volpe Guest

    Last time we met, stig <> had said:
    > Tim Tyler wrote:
    > > In comp.lang.java.programmer Jon A. Cruz <> wrote:
    > >
    > > : Aside from being more responsive (even on a 1.7 GHz machine), the main
    > > : thing is that Emacs is a very mature editor/IDE by programmers for
    > > : programmers. [...]
    > >
    > > A sad day when "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping" is described as
    > > responsive ;-)

    >
    > emacs is not swapping, where did you get that from, i use emac on
    > different platforms and it does not result in any swapping.



    Kids today! Don't know what life was like with 4 MB of RAM.


    dv

    --
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The geographical center of Boston is in Roxbury. Due north of the
    center we find the South End. This is not to be confused with South
    Boston which lies directly east from the South End. North of the South
    End is East Boston and southwest of East Boston is the North End.

    Drew Volpe, mylastname at hcs o harvard o edu
     
    Drew Volpe, Aug 4, 2003
    #7
  8. Drew Volpe wrote:
    > Last time we met, stig <> had said:
    >
    >> Tim Tyler wrote:
    >>
    >>>In comp.lang.java.programmer Jon A. Cruz <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>: Aside from being more responsive (even on a 1.7 GHz machine), the main
    >>>: thing is that Emacs is a very mature editor/IDE by programmers for
    >>>: programmers. [...]
    >>>
    >>>A sad day when "Eight Megs And Constantly Swapping" is described as
    >>>responsive ;-)

    >>
    >>
    >> emacs is not swapping, where did you get that from, i use emac on
    >> different platforms and it does not result in any swapping.

    >
    >
    >
    > Kids today! Don't know what life was like with 4 MB of RAM.
    >
    >

    How about 4k of RAM, er, core
     
    David Zimmerman, Aug 4, 2003
    #8
  9. stig

    Chris Smith Guest

    Drew Volpe wrote:
    >
    > Kids today! Don't know what life was like with 4 MB of RAM.


    Huh. I'm about as much of a "kid" as anyone who works in software
    development, I suppose, and even I have worked on systems with as little
    as 4K, and did most of my early programming for five or six years on a
    C64. At least I hope I haven't graduated to "old fart" already.

    I don't think 4MB is as far off in the past as you are imagining. ;)

    --
    www.designacourse.com
    The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

    Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
    MindIQ Corporation
     
    Chris Smith, Aug 4, 2003
    #9
  10. stig

    Jon A. Cruz Guest

    Drew Volpe wrote:
    >
    >
    > Kids today! Don't know what life was like with 4 MB of RAM.
    >
    >



    4 MB?!?!?

    Luxury!!!


    Why, I remember working at a multimedia company when the lead artist got
    a PC at home with 4MB. We were amazed at the overkill. For anything we
    were making, there was no way we could target anything near 4MB. And
    this was even in the waning days of Windows 3.1.
     
    Jon A. Cruz, Aug 4, 2003
    #10
  11. stig

    Roedy Green Guest

    On Mon, 04 Aug 2003 09:44:01 -0700, "Jon A. Cruz" <>
    wrote or quoted :

    >4 MB?!?!?
    >
    >Luxury!!!


    I had 16K of 31.5 bit words on a rotating drum.
    Univac boxes had 16K bytes of RAM.
    My 8080 had 8K.

    Of course there was all the unit record equipment, with just gold
    tipped wires and no memory at all.

    It is amazing that we are not millions of times more productive now.

    What must seem strange is we ran large corporations on these tiny
    machines.


    --
    Canadian Mind Products, Roedy Green.
    Coaching, problem solving, economical contract programming.
    See http://mindprod.com/jgloss/jgloss.html for The Java Glossary.
     
    Roedy Green, Aug 6, 2003
    #11
  12. stig

    Chris Smith Guest

    wrote:
    > Most consider programmers 'kids' if the programmer is under 30 years of age.
    > The C64 lasted from 1982-1992
    > http://www.commodore.ca/products/c64/commodore_64.htm#Commodore 64 Manuals:
    > - that's 11-21 years ago!
    > Thus, the oldest of the kids were at best 8 years old when the C64
    > first appeared.
    >
    > Don't know your age - but I was 27 when the C64 first appeared...


    Hmm. I'm 24 now. Going by your dates, I was 3 when the C64 first
    appeared. Of course, I wasn't programming for it then... but I learned
    on a C64 later, and finally switched platforms (to a VAX workstation; my
    dad worked for DEC) in 1991. It was about '94 before I ever seriously
    looked at an IBM PC. ;)

    --
    www.designacourse.com
    The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

    Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
    MindIQ Corporation
     
    Chris Smith, Aug 6, 2003
    #12
  13. stig

    Chris Smith Guest

    Roedy Green wrote:
    > It is amazing that we are not millions of times more productive now.
    >
    > What must seem strange is we ran large corporations on these tiny
    > machines.


    I don't find the lack of such astounding productivity increase nearly as
    surprising. I think the relevant factors include:

    1. People are less adaptable to change than machines are.

    2. Even today, computers are accessible to a small percentage of the
    world population. The rest of the world continues as it was.

    3. We will always depend on things like agriculture, which can't exactly
    be computerized to speed them up.

    4. We (by which I must admit I mean the US, to a lesser extent Canada
    and Mexico, and a good part of Western Europe, among quite a few other
    nations, but probably not some nations) don't have an economic and
    social structure that can sustain such dramatic growth in productivity.
    It would result in a disaster for average quality of life, and everyone
    pretty much knows that, even if they won't admit it for reasons of
    personal gain.

    --
    www.designacourse.com
    The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

    Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
    MindIQ Corporation
     
    Chris Smith, Aug 6, 2003
    #13
  14. stig

    Phillip Lord Guest


    >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Smith <> writes:


    Chris> 4. We (by which I must admit I mean the US, to a lesser
    Chris> extent Canada
    Chris> and Mexico, and a good part of Western Europe, among quite a
    Chris> few other nations, but probably not some nations) don't have
    Chris> an economic and social structure that can sustain such
    Chris> dramatic growth in productivity. It would result in a
    Chris> disaster for average quality of life, and everyone pretty
    Chris> much knows that, even if they won't admit it for reasons of
    Chris> personal gain.

    Gains in productivity would be bad for quality of life? Am I missing
    something? Should we not all be basking in the sun, and working 4 hour
    weeks?

    Phil
     
    Phillip Lord, Aug 6, 2003
    #14
  15. stig

    Chris Smith Guest

    Phillip Lord wrote:
    >
    >
    > >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Smith <> writes:

    >
    > Chris> 4. We (by which I must admit I mean the US, to a lesser
    > Chris> extent Canada
    > Chris> and Mexico, and a good part of Western Europe, among quite a
    > Chris> few other nations, but probably not some nations) don't have
    > Chris> an economic and social structure that can sustain such
    > Chris> dramatic growth in productivity. It would result in a
    > Chris> disaster for average quality of life, and everyone pretty
    > Chris> much knows that, even if they won't admit it for reasons of
    > Chris> personal gain.
    >
    > Gains in productivity would be bad for quality of life? Am I missing
    > something? Should we not all be basking in the sun, and working 4 hour
    > weeks?


    You'd think so. In reality, I'm pretty sure we'd all be begging for
    food because our work is no longer needed in a less labor-instensive
    world, while a few people bask in the sun on more expensive private
    member-only beaches.

    --
    www.designacourse.com
    The Easiest Way to Train Anyone... Anywhere.

    Chris Smith - Lead Software Developer/Technical Trainer
    MindIQ Corporation
     
    Chris Smith, Aug 6, 2003
    #15
  16. stig

    Phillip Lord Guest


    >>>>> "Chris" == Chris Smith <> writes:


    Chris> Phillip Lord wrote:

    >> Gains in productivity would be bad for quality of life? Am I
    >> missing something? Should we not all be basking in the sun, and
    >> working 4 hour weeks?


    Chris> You'd think so. In reality, I'm pretty sure we'd all be
    Chris> begging for food because our work is no longer needed in a
    Chris> less labor-instensive world, while a few people bask in the
    Chris> sun on more expensive private member-only beaches.

    Ah yes. I'd noticed that tendency as well.

    Up the revolution is what I say.

    Phil
     
    Phillip Lord, Aug 6, 2003
    #16
  17. Andrew Thompson, Aug 7, 2003
    #17
  18. "Roedy Green" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On 4 Aug 2003 14:50:35 GMT, (Drew Volpe) wrote
    > or quoted :
    >
    > >Don't know what life was like with 4 MB of RAM.

    >
    > we had to program barefoot in the snow.


    Snow!?

    We used to _dream_ of standing on the soft, cool
    snow while we hardwired transistors into boards,
    standing on steaming barnacles & suffering random
    floggings..

    --
    Andrew Thompson
    http://www.lensescapes.com/
    http://www.physci.org/
    http://www.1point1c.org/
     
    Andrew Thompson, Aug 8, 2003
    #18
  19. R: A good IDE??

    >
    > Kids today! Don't know what life was like with 4 MB of RAM.
    >
    >
    > dv


    True! I started with only 8 Kb! Then arrived VIC20 and TI99 (32 Kb)

    Giuseppe
     
    Giuseppe Briotti, Aug 11, 2003
    #19
  20. stig

    xaver kreutz Guest

    > "javadesigner" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > > I flipped to SlickEdit which can be configured for CUA and
    > > > suddenly I could get work done again.

    > >
    > > SlickEdit is nice but it's amazing to me that there is no way
    > > to enable line wrapping on slickedit (even on the latest 8.x
    > > release). So if you have long lines (common in java println(..)
    > > statements and/or html text) that scroll past the right end of
    > > your window, slickedit cannot linewrap and show you that line
    > > in it's entirety. You *will* have to scroll to the right to
    > > see the rest of that line.
    > >
    > > This is so mind-blowingly stupid, I cannot even comprehend what
    > > the slickedit team was thinking when they decided not to
    > > implement this.


    "_.-=<[ { E v E r E a d y } ]>=-._" <> wrote in message news:<bgc1d4$>...
    >
    > Suggestion 1:
    > Send the guys at SlickEdit an email with your request


    or submit a feature request at
    http://slickedit.com/support/su_feature_request.php . there are many
    people missing line wrapping in slickedit. the more we bother them,
    the greater the changes this will be implemented someday. see also
    these two posts at LazyHacker's Slickedit Forum: [ line wrapping in
    slickedit | http://www.lazyhacker.com/slickedit/forum/viewtopic.php?t=108
    ], [ word wrap long lines for viewing |
    http://www.lazyhacker.com/slickedit/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27 ].

    --
    xk
     
    xaver kreutz, Aug 16, 2003
    #20
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