Re: And today's winner of the Mr Spurious Generalization Prize is ..

Discussion in 'C++' started by James Kanze, Apr 3, 2011.

  1. James Kanze

    James Kanze Guest

    On Apr 3, 4:02 pm, Leigh Johnston <> wrote:
    > And today's winner of the Mr Spurious Generalization Prize is .. Mr
    > James Kanze with such classics as:


    > "The French use more whitespace"


    > and


    > "CamelCase is almost universal in telecoms environment"


    And today's winner of today's foot in the mouth prize is: Leigh
    Johnston, who has managed to show is ignorance of French
    typographical conventions (as described in "Lexique des règles
    typographiques en usage à l'Imprimerie nationale") and the
    naming conventions used in CCITT documents, both in one posting.
    (Obviously, there's no shame in not knowing either, but when you
    don't know what you're talking about, as in Leigh's case, you
    shut up.)

    --
    James Kanze
     
    James Kanze, Apr 3, 2011
    #1
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  2. On 3 avr, 20:43, Leigh Johnston <> wrote:
    > On 03/04/2011 18:55, Leigh Johnston wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > > On 03/04/2011 18:43, James Kanze wrote:
    > >> On Apr 3, 4:02 pm, Leigh Johnston<> wrote:
    > >>> And today's winner of the Mr Spurious Generalization Prize is .. Mr
    > >>> James Kanze with such classics as:

    >
    > >>> "The French use more whitespace"


    AFAIK it does. Not only from the typographic point of view as James
    refered to (space before the double signes ;: and others) but also due
    to the constructs (negation use one more word, frequent use of
    subjunctive, indirect or passive form).

    > >>> and

    >
    > >>> "CamelCase is almost universal in telecoms environment"

    >
    > >> And today's winner of today's foot in the mouth prize is: Leigh
    > >> Johnston, who has managed to show is ignorance of French
    > >> typographical conventions (as described in "Lexique des r gles
    > >> typographiques en usage l'Imprimerie nationale") and the
    > >> naming conventions used in CCITT documents, both in one posting.
    > >> (Obviously, there's no shame in not knowing either, but when you
    > >> don't know what you're talking about, as in Leigh's case, you
    > >> shut up.)

    >
    > > Your arrogance (or hubris) seems to know no bounds. You are the one
    > > exhibiting gross ignorance by extrapolating your personal experience
    > > into arbitriary (and mostly false) generalizations.

    >
    > > Feel free to *plonk* me so I can correct your nonsense with less
    > > resultant noise.

    >
    > As far as the "telecoms" domain is concerned:
    >
    > Take a look at "ANSI-C code for the Adaptive Multi Rate speech codec
    > ((3G TS 26.073 version 1.0.0)" and will see that the de rigueur naming
    > convention in that 3GPP document is not CamelCase but lowercase_underscore.
    >
    > I was a programmer in the mobile phone industry for 4 years and whilst
    > the naming convention of the platform I was immersed in (Symbian OS) was
    > CamelCase I would not be arrogant (or stupid) enough to assert that it
    > was the "standard" naming convention for an entire industry sector.


    Since then, a lot of people have bought an iPhone and not an i_phone.
    (Just kidding, I don't want to enter this kind of -useless- argument).

    --
    Michael
     
    Michael Doubez, Apr 4, 2011
    #2
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  3. James Kanze

    Miles Bader Guest

    Michael Doubez <> writes:
    > (Just kidding, I don't want to enter this kind of -useless- argument).


    Wait, is there any _other_ kind of argument on c.l.c++?!

    -miles

    --
    Bigot, n. One who is obstinately and zealously attached to an opinion that
    you do not entertain.
     
    Miles Bader, Apr 5, 2011
    #3
  4. On 5 avr, 07:40, Miles Bader <> wrote:
    > Michael Doubez <> writes:
    > > (Just kidding, I don't want to enter this kind of -useless- argument).

    >
    > Wait, is there any _other_ kind of argument on c.l.c++?!


    You mean *anyOtherKind* of argument ?

    Of course. Priceless jewels they are.

    --
    Michael
     
    Michael Doubez, Apr 5, 2011
    #4
  5. James Kanze

    red floyd Guest

    On Apr 5, 1:58 am, Michael Doubez <> wrote:
    > On 5 avr, 07:40, Miles Bader <> wrote:
    >
    > > Michael Doubez <> writes:
    > > > (Just kidding, I don't want to enter this kind of -useless- argument)..

    >
    > > Wait, is there any _other_ kind of argument on c.l.c++?!

    >
    > You mean *anyOtherKind* of argument ?
    >
    >

    Maybe a default argument?
     
    red floyd, Apr 5, 2011
    #5
  6. On 5 avr, 17:43, red floyd <> wrote:
    > On Apr 5, 1:58 am, Michael Doubez <> wrote:> On 5avr, 07:40, Miles Bader <> wrote:
    >
    > > > Michael Doubez <> writes:
    > > > > (Just kidding, I don't want to enter this kind of -useless- argument).

    >
    > > > Wait, is there any _other_ kind of argument on c.l.c++?!

    >
    > > You mean *anyOtherKind* of argument ?

    >
    > Maybe a default argument?


    Quite the contrary

    template<class T>
    AnyOtherKind
    {
    private:
    AnyOtherKind( T const & ) {}

    public:
    template<class U>
    AnyOtherKind( U const & ) {}
    };

    And then:

    void argument( AnyOtherKind<int> useless);

    --
    Michael
     
    Michael Doubez, Apr 6, 2011
    #6
  7. James Kanze

    gwowen Guest

    On Apr 5, 4:43 pm, red floyd <> wrote:
    > Maybe a default argument?


    Oh, we have a default argument.

    "You're a troll"

    That works whenever anyone disagrees with you, and admits no rational
    counter-argument. Everytime someone points out the subjectivity of
    your opinions, just call them a troll. It's the default argument of
    comp.lang.c++
     
    gwowen, Apr 7, 2011
    #7
  8. Re: And today's winner of the Mr Spurious Generalization Prize is..

    Am 07.04.2011 09:27, schrieb Christian Hackl:
    > Michael Doubez ha scritto:
    >
    >>>> On 03/04/2011 18:43, James Kanze wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> "The French use more whitespace"

    >>
    >> AFAIK it does. Not only from the typographic point of view as James
    >> refered to (space before the double signes ;: and others) but also due
    >> to the constructs (negation use one more word, frequent use of
    >> subjunctive, indirect or passive form).

    > ^^^^^^^^^^^
    >
    > Just out of interest, what does the subjunctive have to do with whitespace?
    >

    More words means more space between them :)

    Peter
     
    Peter Remmers, Apr 7, 2011
    #8
  9. James Kanze

    jacob navia Guest

    Re: And today's winner of the Mr Spurious Generalization Prize is..

    Le 07/04/11 09:27, Christian Hackl a écrit :
    > Michael Doubez ha scritto:
    >


    > Just out of interest, what does the subjunctive have to do with whitespace?
    >
    >
    >

    I could have told you if I would have more whitespace in this small
    margin but that story is too big to fit here.

    Remember?

    Fermat was French, and the lack of whitespace provoked centuries of
    soul searching

    :)
     
    jacob navia, Apr 7, 2011
    #9
  10. On 7 avr, 13:12, Christian Hackl <>
    wrote:
    > Peter Remmers ha scritto:
    >
    > > Am 07.04.2011 09:27, schrieb Christian Hackl:
    > >> Michael Doubez ha scritto:

    >
    > >>>  AFAIK it does. Not only from the typographic point of view as James
    > >>>  refered to (space before the double signes ;: and others) but alsodue
    > >>>  to  the constructs (negation use one more word, frequent use of
    > >>>  subjunctive, indirect or passive form).
    > >>    ^^^^^^^^^^^

    >
    > >> Just out of interest, what does the subjunctive have to do with whitespace?

    >
    > > More words means more space between them :)

    >
    > I fear I still don't get, because I cannot think of any French
    > subjunctive which consists of more words than the related indicative form..


    I was under the assumption that the subjunctive form would be more
    used in french than in english.

    Thinking back, the usage looks similar and I may be mistaken.

    --
    Michael
     
    Michael Doubez, Apr 7, 2011
    #10
  11. James Kanze

    gwowen Guest

    On Apr 7, 12:12 pm, Christian Hackl
    <> wrote:

    > I fear I still don't get, because I cannot think of any French
    > subjunctive which consists of more words than the related indicative form..


    And, of course, usage of many non-present tenses in French requires
    use of fewer words than English rather than more, as the verb
    conjugations are formed through modified endings, rather than the
    periphrastic insertion of extra words:

    "I was eating" vs "Je mangeais" in the imperfect
     
    gwowen, Apr 7, 2011
    #11
  12. On 7 avr, 14:34, gwowen <> wrote:
    > On Apr 7, 12:12 pm, Christian Hackl
    >
    > <> wrote:
    > > I fear I still don't get, because I cannot think of any French
    > > subjunctive which consists of more words than the related indicative form.

    >
    > And, of course, usage of many non-present tenses in French requires
    > use of fewer words than English rather than more, as the verb
    > conjugations are formed through modified endings, rather than the
    > periphrastic insertion of extra words:
    >
    > "I was eating" vs "Je mangeais" in the imperfect


    This is narration phrasing. I am not sure this is so common.
    Spoken french will rather use a construct similar to the english:
    "J'étais en train de manger"

    --
    Michael
     
    Michael Doubez, Apr 7, 2011
    #12
  13. James Kanze

    gwowen Guest

    On Apr 7, 2:26 pm, Michael Doubez <> wrote:
    >
    > > "I was eating" vs "Je mangeais" in the imperfect

    >
    > This is narration phrasing. I am not sure this is so common.


    Well, it was what was taught in English schools 20-something years
    ago... :)

    > Spoken french will rather use a construct similar to the english:
    > "J'étais en train de manger"


    Then I stand corrected.
     
    gwowen, Apr 7, 2011
    #13
  14. On 7 avr, 15:48, gwowen <> wrote:
    > On Apr 7, 2:26 pm, Michael Doubez <> wrote:
    >
    >
    >
    > > > "I was eating" vs "Je mangeais" in the imperfect

    >
    > > This is narration phrasing. I am not sure this is so common.

    >
    > Well, it was what was taught in English schools 20-something years
    > ago... :)
    >
    > > Spoken french will rather use a construct similar to the english:
    > > "J'étais en train de manger"

    >
    > Then I stand corrected.


    Note that you are correct from a grammatical point of view and most
    people with a given level of education will use the imperfect (and
    even the 'passé simple' but that tends to be rare).

    --
    Michael
     
    Michael Doubez, Apr 7, 2011
    #14
  15. James Kanze

    jacob navia Guest

    Re: And today's winner of the Mr Spurious Generalization Prize is..

    Le 07/04/11 14:34, gwowen a écrit :
    > On Apr 7, 12:12 pm, Christian Hackl
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> I fear I still don't get, because I cannot think of any French
    >> subjunctive which consists of more words than the related indicative form.

    >
    > And, of course, usage of many non-present tenses in French requires
    > use of fewer words than English rather than more, as the verb
    > conjugations are formed through modified endings, rather than the
    > periphrastic insertion of extra words:
    >
    > "I was eating" vs "Je mangeais" in the imperfect


    In english you need to learn less words.

    Instead of learning the different words that correspond to I, you
    he/she, etc, you just use

    "I was" + eating, running dancing, etc. In French/spanish or
    German

    That is much simpler to learn.
     
    jacob navia, Apr 7, 2011
    #15
  16. James Kanze

    gwowen Guest

    On Apr 7, 4:55 pm, jacob navia <> wrote:
    > > "I was eating" vs "Je mangeais" in the imperfect

    >
    > In english you need to learn less words.
    >
    > Instead of learning the different words that correspond to I, you
    > he/she, etc, you just use
    >
    > "I was" + eating, running dancing, etc. In French/spanish or
    > German
    >
    > That is much simpler to learn.


    Oh, I agree. I was just talking about the whitespace issue. (Of
    course, as English is such a mongrel language, we often have multiple
    words to learn that mean the same thing, depending on whether the
    local dialect was more strongly influenced by Latin, Norman French,
    Norse, Gaelic... etc, etc, etc).
     
    gwowen, Apr 7, 2011
    #16
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