Re:Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

Discussion in 'Python' started by David T, Nov 13, 2005.

  1. David T

    David T Guest

    >
    > Thomas Edison (I think it was him) once said it took 999 failures to
    > make 1 success. That makes SourceForge 10 times more successful.
    >
    >
    >
    >> The world is filled with
    >> millions of wanna-be poets, writers and creators whose sum total
    >> contribution to the artistic wealth of the world is negative.
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    >
    >> I'm not just using hyperbole. By poisoning the well with their
    >> garbage,
    >> they just make it that little bit harder for genuinely talented
    >> artists to
    >> be heard.
    >>
    >>

    >
    > Whose opinion? Yours, or the market's?
    >
    >



    Just my $0.02:

    Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
    works.

    Walt Disney was a creator. Disney Inc. is not the creator, but has
    managed to twist copyright laws to maintain control of Walt's mouse.
    Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of
    the works _he_ was stealing. (See episode 7 of "From the Earth to the
    Moon" miniseries, re Georges Méliès' 1902 silent film «Le Voyage dans
    la lune»)
    Edwin Howard Armstrong invented FM radio (and even got the patent),
    but RCA won the war. The giant corporation was able to twist
    regulations to drive Edwin to a despairing death.

    Today, Anne A. Mator might create a new character for Disney Inc.,
    but the copyright belongs to Disney Inc., not Anne.
    Professor Suchn Such of Abig University might write a book, but "The
    Regents of Abig University" get the copyright.
    Annin Ventor might build a better widget for Transnational Megacorp,
    but Annin will probably never see a dime of profit or recognition.


    Why? IMHO, most inventors, writers and artists have too much to do
    and too little spare money to pay lobbyists to have laws written for
    them. Giant corporations do have the money to get laws written for
    them. Still, I've never seen a creative corporation or a creative
    law. The best corporations and governments can do is foster an
    environment where creativity flourishes and is justly rewarded.

    Thus, I must express my gratitude to all of those programmers who
    write open-source code (even if it doesn't go anywhere), and even
    shareware, and other works which are made available and open at no or
    reasonable cost. The Python community most of all.

    A free and open marketplace of ideas and products is quite capable of
    separating the triticale from the chaff.

    It makes all of us more productive!

    --David
     
    David T, Nov 13, 2005
    #1
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  2. Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    David T wrote:

    > Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
    > works.


    When someone pays you to create a work, then they own the copyright, not
    you. It's called work for hire.

    --
    Erik Max Francis && && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
    San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
    There is no fate that cannot be surmounted by scorn.
    -- Albert Camus
     
    Erik Max Francis, Nov 13, 2005
    #2
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  3. Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    On Sun, 13 Nov 2005 13:16:43 -0800, Erik Max Francis wrote:

    > David T wrote:
    >
    >> Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
    >> works.

    >
    > When someone pays you to create a work, then they own the copyright, not
    > you. It's called work for hire.


    That is *not* generally true, although it is true in certain industries,
    such as newspapers.

    Book publishers, for instance, do not generally own the copyright even if
    they ask you to write a book. Until the 1978 Copyright Act, neither did
    record labels: the creative musician owned the copyright.

    See http://www.cdbaby.net/articles/courtney_love.html for details of how
    the major record labels, through their enforcement arm the RIAA, stole
    rights from the creative artists that they claim to represent.


    --
    Steven.
     
    Steven D'Aprano, Nov 13, 2005
    #3
  4. Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    Erik Max Francis a écrit :
    > David T wrote:
    >
    >> Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
    >> works.

    >
    >
    > When someone pays you to create a work, then they own the copyright,


    Depends on the country's laws and the exact agreement.
     
    Bruno Desthuilliers, Nov 13, 2005
    #4
  5. Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:

    > Depends on the country's laws and the exact agreement.


    Work for hire is part of the Berne convention.

    --
    Erik Max Francis && && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
    San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
    Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum.
    -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
     
    Erik Max Francis, Nov 13, 2005
    #5
  6. Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    Steven D'Aprano wrote:

    > That is *not* generally true, although it is true in certain industries,
    > such as newspapers.


    It is true in many industries, including the software industry. My
    point was that the creator of a work and the copyright holder and not
    necessarily one and the same. Often, in fact, they are not.

    --
    Erik Max Francis && && http://www.alcyone.com/max/
    San Jose, CA, USA && 37 20 N 121 53 W && AIM erikmaxfrancis
    Life is painting a picture, not doing a sum.
    -- Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.
     
    Erik Max Francis, Nov 13, 2005
    #6
  7. Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    David T <> wrote:
    ...
    > Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of


    I'm not aware of any move to California for either the better-known
    Thomas Alva Edison, or his lesser-known and less successful son of the
    same name. Could you clarify? The movie industry was born in
    California to skirt around some of Edison's (and others') patents, but
    that's a whole 'nother story, of course.


    Alex
     
    Alex Martelli, Nov 14, 2005
    #7
  8. David T

    David T Guest

    Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    I realize that this thread skirts with being OT, but there are
    serious implications for Pythonistas and Open Source software types.

    I didn't mean to suggest that T.E. moved to California. I did,
    however, misspeak (mis-type?) when I said Edison formed a studio in
    California. His was in NJ, according to Google and other officious
    oracles.

    A few different accounts of Edison's relationship to the film industry:

    http://www.filmsite.org/pre20sintro2.html
    http://www.cobbles.com/simpp_archive/edison_trust.htm

    FYI, as a newbie to _this_ list, I had some difficulties with my
    first post to this thread earlier today.

    It follows at the end of this post.
    On Nov 13, 2005, at 7:28 PM, Alex Martelli wrote:

    > David T <> wrote:
    > ...
    >> Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of

    >
    > I'm not aware of any move to California for either the better-known
    > Thomas Alva Edison, or his lesser-known and less successful son of the
    > same name. Could you clarify? The movie industry was born in
    > California to skirt around some of Edison's (and others') patents, but
    > that's a whole 'nother story, of course.
    >
    >
    > Alex
    > --
    > http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list



    Just my $0.02:

    Individuals, and perhaps groups of individuals are the creators of
    works.

    Walt Disney was a creator. Disney Inc. is not the creator, but has
    managed to twist copyright laws to maintain control of Walt's mouse.
    Tom Edison moved to California so _he_ could skirt copyright laws of
    the works _he_ was stealing. (See episode 7 of "From the Earth to the
    Moon" miniseries, re Georges Méliès' 1902 silent film «Le Voyage dans
    la lune»)
    Edwin Howard Armstrong invented FM radio (and even got the patent),
    but RCA won the war. The giant corporation was able to twist
    regulations to drive Edwin to a despairing death.

    Today, Anne A. Mator might create a new character for Disney Inc.,
    but the copyright belongs to Disney Inc., not Anne.
    Professor Suchn Such of Abig University might write a book, but "The
    Regents of Abig University" get the copyright.
    Annin Ventor might build a better widget for Transnational Megacorp,
    but Annin will probably never see a dime of profit or recognition.


    Why? IMHO, most inventors, writers and artists have too much to do
    and too little spare money to pay lobbyists to have laws written for
    them. Giant corporations do have the money to get laws written for
    them. Still, I've never seen a creative corporation or a creative
    law. The best corporations and governments can do is foster an
    environment where creativity flourishes and is justly rewarded.

    Thus, I must express my gratitude to all of those programmers who
    write open-source code (even if it doesn't go anywhere), and even
    shareware, and other works which are made available and open at no or
    reasonable cost. The Python community most of all.

    A free and open marketplace of ideas and products is quite capable of
    separating the triticale from the chaff.

    It makes all of us more productive!

    --David
     
    David T, Nov 14, 2005
    #8
  9. David T

    Guest

    Re: Copyright [was Re: Python Obfuscation]

    Erik Max Francis <> wrote:
    > Bruno Desthuilliers wrote:
    >
    >> Depends on the country's laws and the exact agreement.

    >
    > Work for hire is part of the Berne convention.
    >


    According to recent (2003) Slovak copyright law, ONLY the individual
    authors own the copyright, and they cannot transfer it even if they
    want. Of course, the right to publish and sell and profit from their
    works can be transfered to their employers, if specified so in the
    contract.

    --
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    | Radovan Garabík http://kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk/~garabik/ |
    | __..--^^^--..__ garabik @ kassiopeia.juls.savba.sk |
    -----------------------------------------------------------
    Antivirus alert: file .signature infected by signature virus.
    Hi! I'm a signature virus! Copy me into your signature file to help me spread!
     
    , Nov 15, 2005
    #9
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