Re: CSS screws up display on a Mac??

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Andrew Urquhart, Apr 1, 2004.

  1. Leslie wrote:
    <cut />
    > Why in the world would this page that validated screw up so badly on
    > only Macs? Other pages throughout the site that have been converted
    > to CSS seem to work fine on all Macs.


    Unfortunately your post is one of those "My car is broken, what's wrong
    with it?" posts.

    That said, something that is syntatically valid doesn't necessarily mean
    that is functionally valid, take this bit of javascript for example:

    function GetTemperature(cat, wildebeast, lampost, pencil) {
    if (cat) {
    return wildebeast % lampost;
    }
    return pencil / cat;
    }

    .... it's syntactically correct, but is unlikely to function correctly.

    > I can't point you to an URL since the page is no longer online, but I
    > can post the style sheet code and HTML here if that would help.


    IMHO that would be a "code bomb" and many people that would have helped
    you will ignore it because amount of material to sift through. If you
    take the time to investigate this yourself, narrow down the problem to a
    few troublesome lines and then post that (and better still a demo URL)
    then you'll probably get a lot more helpful replies.
    --
    Andrew Urquhart
    - Archive: http://groups.google.com/groups?group=alt.html
    - Reply: www.andrewu.co.uk/contact/
    Andrew Urquhart, Apr 1, 2004
    #1
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  2. Andrew Urquhart

    Leslie Guest

    On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 01:02:20 +0100, "Andrew Urquhart"
    <> wrote:

    >Leslie wrote:
    ><cut />
    >> Why in the world would this page that validated screw up so badly on
    >> only Macs? Other pages throughout the site that have been converted
    >> to CSS seem to work fine on all Macs.

    >
    >Unfortunately your post is one of those "My car is broken, what's wrong
    >with it?" posts.


    >> I can't point you to an URL since the page is no longer online, but I
    >> can post the style sheet code and HTML here if that would help.

    >
    >IMHO that would be a "code bomb" and many people that would have helped
    >you will ignore it because amount of material to sift through. If you
    >take the time to investigate this yourself, narrow down the problem to a
    >few troublesome lines and then post that (and better still a demo URL)
    >then you'll probably get a lot more helpful replies.


    I've uploaded the page (html & style sheet) to:
    http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html

    I've uploaded the background graphic and the main picture in the
    center of the page, but not all the nav buttons. Obviously the links
    will take you only to my 404 error page.

    I have no clue what might be causing the problems with only Macs.
    There is nothing exotic on this page and nothing I haven't used on
    other pages that work on Macs.

    Any and all help/suggestions/pointers will be very much appreciated!

    Leslie
    "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
    Leslie, Apr 1, 2004
    #2
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  3. Andrew Urquhart

    Mark Parnell Guest

    Mark Parnell, Apr 1, 2004
    #3
  4. Andrew Urquhart

    Nik Coughin Guest

    Leslie wrote:
    > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 01:02:20 +0100, "Andrew Urquhart"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Leslie wrote:
    >> <cut />
    >>> Why in the world would this page that validated screw up so badly on
    >>> only Macs? Other pages throughout the site that have been converted
    >>> to CSS seem to work fine on all Macs.

    >>
    >> Unfortunately your post is one of those "My car is broken, what's
    >> wrong with it?" posts.

    >
    >>> I can't point you to an URL since the page is no longer online, but
    >>> I can post the style sheet code and HTML here if that would help.

    >>
    >> IMHO that would be a "code bomb" and many people that would have
    >> helped you will ignore it because amount of material to sift
    >> through. If you take the time to investigate this yourself, narrow
    >> down the problem to a few troublesome lines and then post that (and
    >> better still a demo URL) then you'll probably get a lot more helpful
    >> replies.

    >
    > I've uploaded the page (html & style sheet) to:
    > http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html
    >
    > I've uploaded the background graphic and the main picture in the
    > center of the page, but not all the nav buttons. Obviously the links
    > will take you only to my 404 error page.
    >
    > I have no clue what might be causing the problems with only Macs.
    > There is nothing exotic on this page and nothing I haven't used on
    > other pages that work on Macs.
    >
    > Any and all help/suggestions/pointers will be very much appreciated!
    >
    > Leslie
    > "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."


    Couldn't see anything myself, but I didn't look through it in much detail
    due to the difficult-to-read formatting. You might want to try running
    TidyHTML or something over your source if it's being generated by software,
    it's a great program and makes everything so much more readable. If you're
    coding by hand then you should really make more use of whitespace to break
    up the code, browsers (generally) ignore it anyway.

    Also, not all Macs apparently, on http://capture.danvine.com it worked fine:

    http://capture.danvine.com/results/8589.png

    Good luck sorting out your problem!
    Nik Coughin, Apr 1, 2004
    #4
  5. Andrew Urquhart

    Leslie Guest

    On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 11:46:47 +1000, Mark Parnell
    <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 01:41:25 GMT, Leslie <>
    >declared in alt.html:
    >
    >> http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html
    >> I have no clue what might be causing the problems with only Macs.

    >
    >What is actually happening on the Macs? What browser(s)? I don't have
    >one here so I can't check it, but it may be a known bug or something.


    The description I got about the behavior on the Macs was "the page
    displays funny, the graphics are all over the place and the page never
    loads completely. After it hangs for a few seconds the whole computer
    locks up and has to be rebooted." I was told it happens on ALL Macs
    regardless of age, software or browser.

    We're talking several hundred computers throughout the school district
    and I don't know what percentage are Macs and what are PCs. I do know
    that every classroom I've ever been in has Macs. The browser could be
    whatever that particular teacher and/or school has installed, but I'm
    presuming the majority of the browsers are IE, again ranging in age
    from ancient to current. (The district is in the process of
    standarizing everything, but it's very slow going, especially with all
    the "No child left behind" crap they're having to deal with now. BUT,
    that's a whole other thread)

    I'm very careful about making sure all pages validate because I know
    that within the district itself, and our community, we're dealing with
    all kinds of OS and browsers.

    Thanks for any and all help!

    Leslie
    "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
    Leslie, Apr 1, 2004
    #5
  6. Andrew Urquhart

    Leslie Guest

    On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:49:31 +1200, "Nik Coughin"
    <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> wrote:

    >Leslie wrote:
    >> On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 01:02:20 +0100, "Andrew Urquhart"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Leslie wrote:
    >>> <cut />
    >>>> Why in the world would this page that validated screw up so badly on
    >>>> only Macs? Other pages throughout the site that have been converted
    >>>> to CSS seem to work fine on all Macs.


    >> I've uploaded the page (html & style sheet) to:
    >> http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html


    >> I have no clue what might be causing the problems with only Macs.
    >> There is nothing exotic on this page and nothing I haven't used on
    >> other pages that work on Macs.


    >Couldn't see anything myself, but I didn't look through it in much detail
    >due to the difficult-to-read formatting. You might want to try running
    >TidyHTML or something over your source if it's being generated by software,
    >it's a great program and makes everything so much more readable. If you're
    >coding by hand then you should really make more use of whitespace to break
    >up the code, browsers (generally) ignore it anyway.
    >
    >Also, not all Macs apparently, on http://capture.danvine.com it worked fine:
    >
    >http://capture.danvine.com/results/8589.png
    >
    >Good luck sorting out your problem!


    Thanks for giving the page a Mac check! Your capture looks just the
    page is supposed to.

    As for the difficult-to-read formatting, the biggest chunk of code is
    for the nav buttons on the left. I use Arachnophilia and code by hand
    and usually make sure I've got enough white space to read the code
    easily. I keep the code for the nav buttons all bunched up because
    they very rarely need updating and I can skip right over them to get
    to what I want. (I've never used TidyHTML because I thought it
    stripped the code of all white space. I'm wrong??)

    Thanks for your help!

    Leslie
    "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
    Leslie, Apr 1, 2004
    #6
  7. On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:08:15 +0000, Leslie wrote:

    > The description I got about the behavior on the Macs was "the page
    > displays funny, the graphics are all over the place and the page never
    > loads completely. After it hangs for a few seconds the whole computer
    > locks up and has to be rebooted." I was told it happens on ALL Macs
    > regardless of age, software or browser.


    Speaking from tech-support experience, that's one of those descriptions
    you'll want to go verify yourself. In person, if possible. I would be
    very surprised if iCab, IE/mac (various versions), Safari, Mozilla, and
    whatever else is kicking around all fail in the exact same way, and *all
    take out the operating system*. If any of them do.

    --
    Some say the Wired doesn't have political borders like the real world,
    but there are far too many nonsense-spouting anarchists or idiots who
    think that pranks are a revolution.
    Owen Jacobson, Apr 1, 2004
    #7
  8. Andrew Urquhart

    Leslie Guest

    On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:19:41 GMT, Owen Jacobson
    <> wrote:

    >On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:08:15 +0000, Leslie wrote:
    >
    >> The description I got about the behavior on the Macs was "the page
    >> displays funny, the graphics are all over the place and the page never
    >> loads completely. After it hangs for a few seconds the whole computer
    >> locks up and has to be rebooted." I was told it happens on ALL Macs
    >> regardless of age, software or browser.

    >
    >Speaking from tech-support experience, that's one of those descriptions
    >you'll want to go verify yourself. In person, if possible. I would be
    >very surprised if iCab, IE/mac (various versions), Safari, Mozilla, and
    >whatever else is kicking around all fail in the exact same way, and *all
    >take out the operating system*. If any of them do.


    I would go verify it myself, but at this point the "Mac problem" is
    very far down the list of the district's problems, probably right at
    the bottom. As far as they're concerned the problem *I* created was
    "fixed" when I reloaded the table based page. As long as the page
    displays properly they don't give a damn what code it used.

    I also doubt it happened on "all Macs" but that's what I was told.
    The info from an 800 employee district is funneled through my contact
    to me, so who knows the complete truth? I can only go with what I'm
    told, and hope I keep everyone at least reasonably happy.

    If possible I'd like to know what happened for my own benefit. If I
    did make a mistake somewhere I don't want to repeat it on any other
    pages, either for the district, other paying clients or my own
    personal pages.

    Thanks again!!

    Leslie
    "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
    Leslie, Apr 1, 2004
    #8
  9. Andrew Urquhart

    Mark Parnell Guest

    On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:08:15 GMT, Leslie <>
    declared in alt.html:

    > The description I got about the behavior on the Macs was "the page
    > displays funny, the graphics are all over the place and the page never
    > loads completely. After it hangs for a few seconds the whole computer
    > locks up and has to be rebooted." I was told it happens on ALL Macs
    > regardless of age, software or browser.


    I'm inclined to agree with Owen - that sounds very unlikely, so I think
    you need to go and check it out yourself.

    --
    Mark Parnell
    http://www.clarkecomputers.com.au
    Mark Parnell, Apr 1, 2004
    #9
  10. Andrew Urquhart

    Jeff Thies Guest

    > I've uploaded the page (html & style sheet) to:
    > http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html


    I havn't fired up my Mac, but...

    I see this in the HTML:

    <script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2"
    src="http://s17.sitemeter.com<A
    href="http://s17.sitemeter.com/stats.asp?site=s17ccsd1" target=_top>

    <IMG
    src="http://s17.sitemeter.com/meter.asp?site=s17ccsd1&refer=&ip=207.69.79.20
    5&hours=22&minutes=7&rtype=4" border=0 title="Site Meter"></A>

    That's just plain wrong. Chop it out and get a Mac friend to retry. I'm on
    a dialup here and and I have to go offline to fire up my G3...

    Cheers,
    Jeff

    >
    > I've uploaded the background graphic and the main picture in the
    > center of the page, but not all the nav buttons. Obviously the links
    > will take you only to my 404 error page.
    >
    > I have no clue what might be causing the problems with only Macs.
    > There is nothing exotic on this page and nothing I haven't used on
    > other pages that work on Macs.
    >
    > Any and all help/suggestions/pointers will be very much appreciated!
    >
    > Leslie
    > "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
    Jeff Thies, Apr 1, 2004
    #10
  11. Andrew Urquhart

    Leslie Guest

    On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 03:13:28 GMT, "Jeff Thies" <>
    wrote:

    >> I've uploaded the page (html & style sheet) to:
    >> http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html

    >
    >I havn't fired up my Mac, but...
    >
    > I see this in the HTML:
    >
    ><script type="text/javascript" language="JavaScript1.2"
    >src="http://s17.sitemeter.com<A
    >href="http://s17.sitemeter.com/stats.asp?site=s17ccsd1" target=_top>
    >
    ><IMG
    >src="http://s17.sitemeter.com/meter.asp?site=s17ccsd1&refer=&ip=207.69.79.20
    >5&hours=22&minutes=7&rtype=4" border=0 title="Site Meter"></A>
    >
    > That's just plain wrong. Chop it out and get a Mac friend to retry. I'm on
    >a dialup here and and I have to go offline to fire up my G3...


    the SiteMeter stuff was copied and pasted from their site. I wouldn't
    even know where to begin to edit javascript code. But, the code for
    the img src isn't what you've indicated above.

    The SiteMeter code is on both versions of the page, table layout and
    CSS, in addition to quite a few other pages on the site. That
    apparently is not the problem.

    Thanks for your input, Jeff.

    Leslie
    "I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person."
    Leslie, Apr 1, 2004
    #11
  12. In article <>,
    wrote:

    > >On Thu, 01 Apr 2004 01:41:25 GMT, Leslie <>
    > >declared in alt.html:
    > >
    > >> http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html
    > >> I have no clue what might be causing the problems with only Macs.


    > The description I got about the behavior on the Macs was "the page
    > displays funny, the graphics are all over the place and the page never
    > loads completely. After it hangs for a few seconds the whole computer
    > locks up and has to be rebooted." I was told it happens on ALL Macs
    > regardless of age, software or browser.

    <snip>
    > I'm very careful about making sure all pages validate because I know
    > that within the district itself, and our community, we're dealing with
    > all kinds of OS and browsers.
    >
    > Thanks for any and all help!


    Your site crashes MacIE5.1 as you describe. It loads in MacMozilla1.2.1,
    but at my 640x480 resolution, the links are listed at the top and the
    graphics on the bottom. In MacOpera5, the links don't load at all but the
    graphics are probably where they should be, high on the right hand side.
    Wow! Where'd the links go? I lied. They're there but invisible.
    I looked at your style sheet and "seem to remember" that MacIE5 doesn't
    like "position:relative". Google for "Mac IE5 CSS position:relative" and
    stuff comes up which might be of interest. I didn't have the fortitude to
    try your site with NN4. It takes too long to reboot :)
    If it were me, I'd work with floats and widths and forgo positioning with
    the CSS. The page is simple enough to do well with them.
    Comment out the position properties in a test folder and have someone view
    the page with MacIE. If it doesn't crash, you have the culprit. If it
    does, it may be your javascript. So comment that out and have them try
    again. You know the drill.

    leo

    --
    <http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/>
    Leonard Blaisdell, Apr 1, 2004
    #12
  13. Andrew Urquhart

    KirstyH Guest

    Leslie wrote:

    > On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 13:49:31 +1200, "Nik Coughin"
    > <nrkn!no-spam!@woosh.co.nz> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Leslie wrote:
    >>
    >>>On Thu, 1 Apr 2004 01:02:20 +0100, "Andrew Urquhart"
    >>><> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>>Leslie wrote:
    >>>><cut />
    >>>>
    >>>>>Why in the world would this page that validated screw up so badly on
    >>>>>only Macs? Other pages throughout the site that have been converted
    >>>>>to CSS seem to work fine on all Macs.

    >
    >
    >>>I've uploaded the page (html & style sheet) to:
    >>>http://www.bessiebee.com/TEST/csdindex_new.html

    >
    >
    >>>I have no clue what might be causing the problems with only Macs.
    >>>There is nothing exotic on this page and nothing I haven't used on
    >>>other pages that work on Macs.

    >
    >
    >>Couldn't see anything myself, but I didn't look through it in much detail
    >>due to the difficult-to-read formatting. You might want to try running
    >>TidyHTML or something over your source if it's being generated by software,
    >>it's a great program and makes everything so much more readable. If you're
    >>coding by hand then you should really make more use of whitespace to break
    >>up the code, browsers (generally) ignore it anyway.
    >>
    >>Also, not all Macs apparently, on http://capture.danvine.com it worked fine:
    >>
    >>http://capture.danvine.com/results/8589.png
    >>
    >>Good luck sorting out your problem!

    >
    >
    > Thanks for giving the page a Mac check! Your capture looks just the
    > page is supposed to.
    >
    > As for the difficult-to-read formatting, the biggest chunk of code is
    > for the nav buttons on the left. I use Arachnophilia and code by hand
    > and usually make sure I've got enough white space to read the code
    > easily. I keep the code for the nav buttons all bunched up because
    > they very rarely need updating and I can skip right over them to get
    > to what I want. (I've never used TidyHTML because I thought it
    > stripped the code of all white space. I'm wrong??)
    >


    Arachnophillia's "Beautify HTML" command works wonders. Personally I
    think it does tend to add a lot of unnecessary formatting (such as
    breaking a previously single line Anchor tag over three lines) but it
    definatly makes my code much much more readable!

    Kirsty
    KirstyH, Apr 1, 2004
    #13
  14. Andrew Urquhart

    Gnarlodious Guest

    Gnarlodious, Apr 2, 2004
    #14
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