Re: Label tag?

Discussion in 'HTML' started by David Dorward, Jun 25, 2003.

  1. Samuël van Laere wrote:

    > Just a question:
    > Should i use the <LABEL> tag with forms elements?


    Yes

    > Currently i use the <P> tag, so wich is best to use?


    All form elements should be labeled. If they are paragraphs then they should
    be marked up as paragraphs too.

    > Will the <LABEL> tag stay in the HTML definition?


    Yes

    > Also:
    > Does anyone know a free speechbrowser, that i can use to test my pages?


    http://freshmeat.net/projects/emacspeak/ ... but good luck getting it to
    work.

    Generally, if it works well in lynx <http://www.lynx.browser.org>, then it
    will work well in an aural browser.

    --
    David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
    Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
    Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
    http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2003/5/30/microsoft-announces-ie-is-dead
    David Dorward, Jun 25, 2003
    #1
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  2. "David Dorward" <> schreef in bericht
    news:bdd6vm$kkq$1$...
    > Samuël van Laere wrote:
    >
    > > Just a question:
    > > Should i use the <LABEL> tag with forms elements?

    >
    > Yes
    >
    > > Currently i use the <P> tag, so wich is best to use?

    >
    > All form elements should be labeled. If they are paragraphs then they

    should
    > be marked up as paragraphs too.
    >
    > > Will the <LABEL> tag stay in the HTML definition?

    >
    > Yes
    >
    > > Also:
    > > Does anyone know a free speechbrowser, that i can use to test my pages?

    >
    > http://freshmeat.net/projects/emacspeak/ ... but good luck getting it to
    > work.
    >
    > Generally, if it works well in lynx <http://www.lynx.browser.org>, then it
    > will work well in an aural browser.
    >
    > --
    > David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
    > Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
    > Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
    > http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2003/5/30/microsoft-announces-ie-is-dead


    Thanks for your answers David,
    but what is considered "works well" in Lynx?
    Would you consider my site to work well with Lynx?


    --
    With regards,
    Samuël van Laere
    the Netherlands
    www.fortron.net
    Samuël van Laere, Jun 25, 2003
    #2
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  3. Samuël van Laere wrote:

    > but what is considered "works well" in Lynx?


    That comes down to opinion.

    > Would you consider my site to work well with Lynx?


    I don't understand the language, but it seems OK - aside from the alt text
    for the logos.

    Alt should hold a textual replacement for the image, not a description of
    it.

    --
    David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
    Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
    Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
    http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2003/5/30/microsoft-announces-ie-is-dead
    David Dorward, Jun 25, 2003
    #3
  4. "Jukka K. Korpela" <> schreef in bericht
    news:Xns93A6106969BC1jkorpelacstutfi@193.229.0.31...
    > David Dorward <> wrote:
    >
    > > All form elements should be labeled.

    >
    > Maybe not <input type="submit"> and relatives, though. They have name
    > attributes that should be descriptive enough. But if they need
    > explanations, the explaining texts could well be treated as labels:
    >
    > <div><label for="subs">Subscribe to the foo-bar mailing list:</label>
    > <input id="subs" type="submit" value="Subscribe"></div>
    >
    > --
    > Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    > Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    >
    >


    Yucca,

    This is what i currently use:

    <form method="POST" class="formElement">
    <label for="Name">Name:</label>
    <p>
    <input name="Name">
    </p>
    <label for="Email">E-mail:</label>
    <p>
    <input name="Email">
    </p>
    <label for="Message">Your message:</label>
    <p>
    <textarea name="Message" cols="30" rows="10"
    class="formElement"></textarea>
    </p>
    <p>
    <input type="submit" class="formButton" value="Send">
    </p>
    </form>

    Is this the correct way of doing forms and labels?
    Also i wonder, is there a way to use a "spacer" in html,
    without using any images??


    --
    With regards,
    Samuël van Laere
    the Netherlands
    www.fortron.net
    Samuël van Laere, Jun 25, 2003
    #4
  5. Samuël van Laere wrote:

    > This is what i currently use:


    > <label for="Name">Name:</label>
    > <p>
    > <input name="Name">
    > </p>


    It seems highly unlikely that somebody's name qualifies as a paragraph.

    > Is this the correct way of doing forms and labels?


    No. The "for" attribute of a <label> refers to the id of the related input.

    > Also i wonder, is there a way to use a "spacer" in html,
    > without using any images??


    HTML describes semantics, not presentation. Space between elements is
    handled by the CSS margin properties.

    --
    David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
    Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
    Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
    http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2003/5/30/microsoft-announces-ie-is-dead
    David Dorward, Jun 26, 2003
    #5
  6. Samuël van Laere wrote:

    >>Alt should hold a textual replacement for the image, not
    >>a description of it.

    >
    > I do not understand this answer to be honnest,
    > could you show me an example?


    A link to the validator with the text "W3C HTML 4.01 Validated Logo"

    > For instance what should the alt of the html validated logo be?


    Something along the lines of "Valid HTML 4.01" or "Validate this HTML"


    --
    David Dorward http://david.us-lot.org/
    Redesign in progress: http://stone.thecoreworlds.net/
    Microsoft announces IE is dead (so upgrade):
    http://minutillo.com/steve/weblog/2003/5/30/microsoft-announces-ie-is-dead
    David Dorward, Jun 26, 2003
    #6
  7. David Dorward

    Chris Morris Guest

    David Dorward <> writes:
    > Samuël van Laere wrote:
    > > Also:
    > > Does anyone know a free speechbrowser, that i can use to test my pages?


    IBM Home Page Reader isn't free, but does have a 30 day trial which
    you can use to get a good idea of its capabilities, limitations, etc.

    > http://freshmeat.net/projects/emacspeak/ ... but good luck getting it to
    > work.
    >
    > Generally, if it works well in lynx <http://www.lynx.browser.org>, then it
    > will work well in an aural browser.


    Hmm...to an extent. There's considerations for aural browsers that
    aren't there for Lynx.
    "click here" is a far greater problem in audio, since one uses
    link-skimming a lot.
    <b><font size="5">Heading</font></b> will 'work' in Lynx, on most
    terminals, since modern versions at least recognise <b>. Using proper
    heading elements is exceptionally useful for navigating long documents
    in audio.
    Data tables need a bit more consideration as well - <th> alone is
    usually good enough for Lynx, but I've not yet found an aural browser
    that requires anything less than the full <td headers="foo">, <th
    id="foo"> method. Scope doesn't seem to be enough, unfortunately.

    If it works well in Lynx, one can _get the content_ with an aural
    browser, but I wouldn't say it would 'automatically' work *well*...

    --
    Chris
    Chris Morris, Jun 26, 2003
    #7
  8. David Dorward <> wrote:

    >> For instance what should the alt of the html validated logo be?

    >
    > Something along the lines of "Valid HTML 4.01" or "Validate this
    > HTML"


    And the choice depends on what the image is meant to _say_.

    The simple rule for choosing an alt attribute value is to ask oneself:
    If images didn't exist in the universe, what would I write here?
    Even better, write the page as if images didn't exist, then add images
    as optional alternatives to some texts; those texts will then naturally
    become alt attribute values.

    But regarding the validation iconolatry, the _honest_ alternative would
    be alt="Validate (for no good reason) my page for me." More info:
    http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/html/validation.html

    --
    Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/
    Pages about Web authoring: http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/www.html
    Jukka K. Korpela, Jun 26, 2003
    #8
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