Re: Living in a RAM-rich World

Discussion in 'Java' started by Dale King, Jul 2, 2003.

  1. Dale King

    Dale King Guest

    In article <>, says...
    > Sudsy wrote:
    > > Tim and Roedy,
    > > I haven't found much practical use for Eclipse but at least it
    > > seems snappy and starts with reasonable alacrity on an AMD Athlon
    > > XP1800+ with 384 MB of RAM (shared with various and sundry other
    > > applications).
    > > I still don't see why so many are fawning over it: I achieve
    > > greater productivity using vi in an xterm with the javadocs in a
    > > browser window. YM will most likely V.

    >
    > Debugging and Refactoring.
    >
    > Either one of those is where Eclipse can really help productivity.
    >
    > I do use it, although I still switch to Emacs+JDEE for heavy editing.


    I've seen you say this several times, but relly don't understand it. The
    only thing really missing from the eclipse editor for me is block
    selection operations. With code-complete, templates, and refactoring I
    find I really don't have much "heavy" editing to do.
    --
    Dale King
     
    Dale King, Jul 2, 2003
    #1
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  2. Dale King

    Tim Tyler Guest

    Dale King <Dale[dot]> wrote:
    : In article <>, says...

    [Eclipse]

    :> I do use it, although I still switch to Emacs+JDEE for heavy editing.

    : I've seen you say this several times, but relly don't understand it. The
    : only thing really missing from the eclipse editor for me is block
    : selection operations. With code-complete, templates, and refactoring
    : I find I really don't have much "heavy" editing to do.

    Macros seem like a bigger fundamental omission than block editing to me.

    There's no scripting, no folding, the syntax colouring is crummy,
    no split view facility, it can't display italics, its search and replace
    facilities are fresh out of the stone age - basically it's totally
    under-powered in just about every department.

    Frankly, it must be something of an embarassment to IBM to be foisting a
    crummy editor - like the one in Eclipse - on the world in mid-2003.
    --
    __________
    |im |yler http://timtyler.org/
     
    Tim Tyler, Jul 2, 2003
    #2
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  3. Dale King

    Jon A. Cruz Guest

    Dale King wrote:
    > In article <>, says...
    >
    >>I do use it, although I still switch to Emacs+JDEE for heavy editing.

    >
    >
    > I've seen you say this several times, but relly don't understand it.


    Well... it is somewhat related to the 'feel' of the editor. When I have
    lots of code to type or edit, Emacs just seems to make it all go quicker.

    One of the things is it's dynamic abbreviation expansion. I just hit
    Meta-/ and it looks through my recent buffers for what comes after the
    thing I'd just typed. Repeatedly hitting that key toggles through
    choices. Space moves on. Thus if I'm writing a section of code that is
    similar to some other section of code in my program, I can get the
    editor to type most of it for me.

    Another is Emacs' kill ring, and how it has multiple copy buffers. There
    are some nice, handy tricks that you can do with more than a single
    copy-n-past held in memory.

    Emacs' character set support is also very good (although unlike some of
    my coworkers, I don't edit mixed Japansese often). It is very handy when
    working with some files UTF-8, some Cp1252, some MacRoman, etc.

    Hmmm.... what else? Oh, I know. The indention. Emacs does customizeable
    indention style in some very handy modes, with full controll over just
    about anything. And it has quick commands to re-indent areas. Eclipse
    does a fair job if you paste code into a different indention level
    (although even this does get confused at times). However, the way that
    emacs indents as you go, based on context and not just previous
    indention) and hitting tab re-indents a line just make coding a hair faster.

    And then there's the GUI focus of Eclipse. It is very nice and powerful,
    but I find now and then there are things that make me take my hands off
    the keyboard and run the mouse. This almost always causes some slowdown,
    and sometimes even a slight break in concentration. The find/replace
    dialog is one of these places. When working within Emacs my hands never
    need to leave the keyboard for searches, replaces, regular expression
    replaces, and things are just a bit faster. Eclipse's find dialog is not
    too bad, and does seem to do about everything... however in doing
    everything, it's not quite as fast as doing one thing. (perhaps I'm just
    missing some hidden magic keystrokes in Eclipse)

    Etc, etc. just all sorts of little things like those.


    I'm not saying that Eclipse is a bad editor, just that Emacs is a bit
    faster in the pure editing depmartment.
     
    Jon A. Cruz, Jul 2, 2003
    #3
  4. Dale King

    Paul Tomblin Guest

    In a previous article, Sudsy <> said:
    >That's why I like working in vi: my hands never have to leave the
    >keyboard (or the ends of my arms ;-). While it doesn't indent
    >automatically, the block cut and paste functions, along with the
    >convenient one-key navigation, make it an efficient tool for me.


    Check out vim. Keystroke compatible with vi, plus it has a "smart indent"
    mode, syntax colouring, and some other cool stuff.


    --
    Paul Tomblin <>, not speaking for anybody
    ALL programs are poems, it's just that not all programmers are poets.
    -- Jonathan Guthrie in the scary.devil.monastery
     
    Paul Tomblin, Jul 2, 2003
    #4
  5. Dale King

    Jacob Guest

    Jon A. Cruz wrote:

    > Hmmm.... what else?


    Anything! When something is missing you simply
    program it yourself (or download some pieces
    already done elsewhere).

    See for instance http://geosoft.no/emacs.html
     
    Jacob, Jul 3, 2003
    #5
  6. Dale King

    Jon A. Cruz Guest

    Paul Tomblin wrote:
    > Check out vim. Keystroke compatible with vi, plus it has a "smart indent"
    > mode, syntax colouring, and some other cool stuff.


    Or...

    Fire up Emacs and type

    Meta-X vi-mode

    ;-)
     
    Jon A. Cruz, Jul 4, 2003
    #6
  7. Sudsy <>, Wed, 02 Jul 2003 15:08:00 -0400:

    > Jon A. Cruz wrote:
    > <snip>

    <snip>
    >> dialog is one of these places. When working within Emacs my hands never
    >> need to leave the keyboard for searches, replaces, regular expression
    >> replaces, and things are just a bit faster. Eclipse's find dialog is not
    >> too bad, and does seem to do about everything... however in doing
    >> everything, it's not quite as fast as doing one thing. (perhaps I'm just
    >> missing some hidden magic keystrokes in Eclipse)

    > <snip>
    >
    > That's why I like working in vi: my hands never have to leave the
    > keyboard (or the ends of my arms ;-). While it doesn't indent
    > automatically, the block cut and paste functions, along with the
    > convenient one-key navigation, make it an efficient tool for me.
    > Of course, when you've had more than a decade of practice then
    > things tend to go a bit faster anyway...
    > YMMV


    Are you using vi or vim? I am using the option:
    :set smartindent
    It works quite okay actually.

    I still haven't found an editor that focuses on XML editing and the most
    irritating aspect about hand writing XML type files is typing the < , </
    and > sequence; I just used ab them all away; I only started to use vim
    seriously since last year and after the initial struggle, it's quite
    formidable. (emacs probably is too, but I can't get used to the strange
    C-x M-x keyword combinations).



    Greets
    Bhun.
     
    dhek bhun kho, Jul 9, 2003
    #7
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