Re: Looking For Direction

Discussion in 'Java' started by Arved Sandstrom, Jun 10, 2010.

  1. JC wrote:
    [ SNIP ]

    > Off the top of my head, I am thinking of a Unix based version of Oracle for
    > the DBMS. For the user interface I am thinking of something that is
    > integrated with a web browser. And of course some sort of interface between
    > the two. All this with my limited knowledge of what's out there today. I
    > might be a dinosaur but certainly not stupid; I am quite capable of
    > learning. I haven't been to school since 1996 when I graduated with a BS in
    > Comp/Sci & Math.
    >
    > Many Thanks to any/all that respond ...
    >
    > -JC


    I realize that you posted to Java newsgroups, and others have already
    provided good advice for Java-based work. However, in line with where
    you say you're currently at, I would recommend investigating a .NET
    approach in parallel with following up the Java/J2EE leads. For a web
    application you might then be looking at ASP.NET MVC 2, using C# as your
    primary programming language, with SQL Server as your database. The J2EE
    parallel to this could be JSF/Facelets in Java EE 6, with Java 1.6,
    using Oracle or PostgreSQL. There are lots of permutations, obviously,
    but these are broad brush suggestions.

    Would I recommend one over the other, J2EE over .NET, or vice versa? No,
    I simply recommend being aware of both technology sets. Especially since
    you are essentially coming in at ground zero, which is not necessarily a
    disadvantage here.

    HTH, AHS

    --
    It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
    ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
    ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
    which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
    -- Nathaniel Borenstein
    Arved Sandstrom, Jun 10, 2010
    #1
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  2. Arved Sandstrom

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 09-06-2010 20:19, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > JC wrote:
    > [ SNIP ]
    >
    >> Off the top of my head, I am thinking of a Unix based version of
    >> Oracle for
    >> the DBMS. For the user interface I am thinking of something that is
    >> integrated with a web browser. And of course some sort of interface
    >> between
    >> the two. All this with my limited knowledge of what's out there today. I
    >> might be a dinosaur but certainly not stupid; I am quite capable of
    >> learning. I haven't been to school since 1996 when I graduated with a
    >> BS in
    >> Comp/Sci & Math.
    >>
    >> Many Thanks to any/all that respond ...

    >
    > I realize that you posted to Java newsgroups, and others have already
    > provided good advice for Java-based work. However, in line with where
    > you say you're currently at, I would recommend investigating a .NET
    > approach in parallel with following up the Java/J2EE leads. For a web
    > application you might then be looking at ASP.NET MVC 2, using C# as your
    > primary programming language, with SQL Server as your database. The J2EE
    > parallel to this could be JSF/Facelets in Java EE 6, with Java 1.6,
    > using Oracle or PostgreSQL. There are lots of permutations, obviously,
    > but these are broad brush suggestions.
    >
    > Would I recommend one over the other, J2EE over .NET, or vice versa? No,
    > I simply recommend being aware of both technology sets. Especially since
    > you are essentially coming in at ground zero, which is not necessarily a
    > disadvantage here.


    Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 10, 2010
    #2
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  3. Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    > On 09-06-2010 20:19, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    >> JC wrote:
    >> [ SNIP ]
    >>
    >>> Off the top of my head, I am thinking of a Unix based version of
    >>> Oracle for
    >>> the DBMS. For the user interface I am thinking of something that is
    >>> integrated with a web browser. And of course some sort of interface
    >>> between
    >>> the two. All this with my limited knowledge of what's out there today. I
    >>> might be a dinosaur but certainly not stupid; I am quite capable of
    >>> learning. I haven't been to school since 1996 when I graduated with a
    >>> BS in
    >>> Comp/Sci & Math.
    >>>
    >>> Many Thanks to any/all that respond ...

    >>
    >> I realize that you posted to Java newsgroups, and others have already
    >> provided good advice for Java-based work. However, in line with where
    >> you say you're currently at, I would recommend investigating a .NET
    >> approach in parallel with following up the Java/J2EE leads. For a web
    >> application you might then be looking at ASP.NET MVC 2, using C# as your
    >> primary programming language, with SQL Server as your database. The J2EE
    >> parallel to this could be JSF/Facelets in Java EE 6, with Java 1.6,
    >> using Oracle or PostgreSQL. There are lots of permutations, obviously,
    >> but these are broad brush suggestions.
    >>
    >> Would I recommend one over the other, J2EE over .NET, or vice versa? No,
    >> I simply recommend being aware of both technology sets. Especially since
    >> you are essentially coming in at ground zero, which is not necessarily a
    >> disadvantage here.

    >
    > Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    > have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.
    >
    > Arne
    >

    Based on what he said I wouldn't consider that to be a significant
    advantage however. An ancient version of Java, for starters. And by his
    own admission he's no DBA, so even discounting the old version of Oracle
    he doesn't have admin chops on the database side either.

    Again, I'm not recommending one over the other. I wouldn't even do that
    for myself; personally I'd like to be in a position where I could work
    with the latest Java EE for 6 months, then switch to the latest .NET for
    6 months, then back to Java EE, and so on. :) I simply believe that the
    OP is approaching this situation with practically a clean slate, so why
    not keep his eyes open while making choices?

    AHS
    --
    It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
    ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
    ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
    which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
    -- Nathaniel Borenstein
    Arved Sandstrom, Jun 10, 2010
    #3
  4. Arved Sandstrom

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <4c1033b3$0$278$>,
    says...

    ....

    > Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    > have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.


    Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    locks you into a windows-based network.
    David Kerber, Jun 10, 2010
    #4
  5. Arved Sandstrom

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
    so-tickle-me>, says...
    >
    > David Kerber <> writes:
    >
    > > In article <4c1033b3$0$278$>,
    > > says...
    > >
    > > ...
    > >
    > >> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    > >> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.

    > >
    > > Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    > > locks you into a windows-based network.

    >
    > And doesn't .NET also tend to drag you into to license fees and other
    > expenses; whilst Java has an open source eco-system?


    I don't know a whole lot about the .NET ecosystem, but Java absolutely
    has a very strong open-source community.

    Since he's the one writing the lab software, he can probably get the
    entire office redone with zero software expenses, if he were to use
    Linux for the OS, Postgres or mySQL (or the free version of Oracle) as
    the db, and his own software for the front end.

    The other nice thing about java is that his very old app will probably
    still run on the newest jvms, allowing him to upgrade the machines and
    rewrite the app later on in the process.

    D
    David Kerber, Jun 10, 2010
    #5
  6. David Kerber wrote:
    > In article <4c1033b3$0$278$>,
    > says...
    >
    > ...
    >
    >> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    >> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.

    >
    > Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    > locks you into a windows-based network.


    The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
    case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
    liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
    majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do J2SE/J2EE
    on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a
    majority - of other applications that have been on Windows. So it may be
    a point of pride that your app in theory could run on many OS's, but
    since almost everyone will have Windows who really cares?

    AHS

    --
    It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
    ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
    ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
    which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
    -- Nathaniel Borenstein
    Arved Sandstrom, Jun 10, 2010
    #6
  7. David Kerber wrote:
    > In article <-did-not-set--mail-host-address--
    > so-tickle-me>, says...
    >> David Kerber <> writes:
    >>
    >>> In article <4c1033b3$0$278$>,
    >>> says...
    >>>
    >>> ...
    >>>
    >>>> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    >>>> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.
    >>> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    >>> locks you into a windows-based network.

    >> And doesn't .NET also tend to drag you into to license fees and other
    >> expenses; whilst Java has an open source eco-system?

    >
    > I don't know a whole lot about the .NET ecosystem, but Java absolutely
    > has a very strong open-source community.
    >
    > Since he's the one writing the lab software, he can probably get the
    > entire office redone with zero software expenses, if he were to use
    > Linux for the OS, Postgres or mySQL (or the free version of Oracle) as
    > the db, and his own software for the front end.

    [ SNIP ]

    And apart from the price of a legal copy of Windows you could do
    everything else in the .NET ecosystem for free also.

    In any case the cost of labour is going to dwarf the cost of software in
    this scenario.

    AHS

    --
    It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
    ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
    ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
    which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
    -- Nathaniel Borenstein
    Arved Sandstrom, Jun 10, 2010
    #7
  8. Arved Sandstrom

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 10-06-2010 10:34, wrote:
    > David Kerber<> writes:
    >> In article<4c1033b3$0$278$>,
    >> says...
    >>
    >> ...
    >>
    >>> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    >>> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.

    >>
    >> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    >> locks you into a windows-based network.

    >
    > And doesn't .NET also tend to drag you into to license fees and other
    > expenses; whilst Java has an open source eco-system?


    ..NET runtime, C# compiler, Visual Studio Express, SQLServer Express
    etc. are all free.

    It does require Windows which is not free.

    There are not as much open source for .NET as for Java, but there
    are plenty.

    Some of it is very familiar for Java people: NHibernate, NUnit,
    NAnt, Log4net etc..

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 10, 2010
    #8
  9. Arved Sandstrom

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 10-06-2010 17:45, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > David Kerber wrote:
    >> In article <4c1033b3$0$278$>,
    >> says...
    >>
    >> ...
    >>
    >>> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    >>> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.

    >>
    >> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    >> locks you into a windows-based network.

    >
    > The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true.


    True. But Mono is only 98% MS .NET compatible or so, which
    either is not compatible or requires extra work to ensure
    compatibility.

    > In any
    > case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
    > liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
    > majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do J2SE/J2EE
    > on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a
    > majority - of other applications that have been on Windows. So it may be
    > a point of pride that your app in theory could run on many OS's, but
    > since almost everyone will have Windows who really cares?


    The database is running on non-Windows platform today and he indicated
    interest in Unix as database platform.

    Windows is big but it is not everything.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 10, 2010
    #9
  10. Arved Sandstrom

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 10-06-2010 06:45, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    > Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >> On 09-06-2010 20:19, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    >>> JC wrote:
    >>> [ SNIP ]
    >>>
    >>>> Off the top of my head, I am thinking of a Unix based version of
    >>>> Oracle for
    >>>> the DBMS. For the user interface I am thinking of something that is
    >>>> integrated with a web browser. And of course some sort of interface
    >>>> between
    >>>> the two. All this with my limited knowledge of what's out there
    >>>> today. I
    >>>> might be a dinosaur but certainly not stupid; I am quite capable of
    >>>> learning. I haven't been to school since 1996 when I graduated with a
    >>>> BS in
    >>>> Comp/Sci & Math.
    >>>>
    >>>> Many Thanks to any/all that respond ...
    >>>
    >>> I realize that you posted to Java newsgroups, and others have already
    >>> provided good advice for Java-based work. However, in line with where
    >>> you say you're currently at, I would recommend investigating a .NET
    >>> approach in parallel with following up the Java/J2EE leads. For a web
    >>> application you might then be looking at ASP.NET MVC 2, using C# as your
    >>> primary programming language, with SQL Server as your database. The J2EE
    >>> parallel to this could be JSF/Facelets in Java EE 6, with Java 1.6,
    >>> using Oracle or PostgreSQL. There are lots of permutations, obviously,
    >>> but these are broad brush suggestions.
    >>>
    >>> Would I recommend one over the other, J2EE over .NET, or vice versa? No,
    >>> I simply recommend being aware of both technology sets. Especially since
    >>> you are essentially coming in at ground zero, which is not necessarily a
    >>> disadvantage here.

    >>
    >> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    >> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.
    >>

    > Based on what he said I wouldn't consider that to be a significant
    > advantage however. An ancient version of Java, for starters. And by his
    > own admission he's no DBA, so even discounting the old version of Oracle
    > he doesn't have admin chops on the database side either.


    Even though Java 1.1 is old, then the code should still work on
    a newer Java (there are few potential issues, but generally).

    He may not be a DBA, but if has been writing SQL statements for the
    app then he would know some of Oracles ways of doing things.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 10, 2010
    #10
  11. ilan wrote:
    > Arved Sandstrom <> writes:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
    >> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
    >> liability, not now and not for a few more decades.

    >
    > Being locked into a Windows-based anything is liability. It is. And
    > in this case its simply not necessary.


    You know, being locked into a Linux distro or a flavour of UNIX is just
    as much of a liability. I gotta tell you, I fail to see how being
    "locked into" Windows is a problem.

    >> As it is, the majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal
    >> with do J2SE/J2EE on Windows.

    >
    > So? How did the developers and clients you deal with suddenly become a
    > symbol of the entire wired world? Its your world. That's ok. But its not
    > everyone.
    >
    >> Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a majority -
    >> of other applications that have been on Windows.

    >
    > Yes. Every job *you* have worked in. So what...? Really.


    My statement was anecdotal, but I'm prepared to guess - damned if I know
    why I believe something this outlandish - that a whole bunch of people
    out there...maybe even a majority...use Windows. But if you think
    different that's your prerogative.

    >> So it may be a point of pride that your app in theory could run on
    >> many OS's, but since almost everyone will have Windows who really
    >> cares?

    >
    > Almost everyone will not have Windows. And almost everyone does not have
    > Windows.


    ???

    >> AHS

    >
    > --
    > ilAn


    --
    It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
    ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
    ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
    which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
    -- Nathaniel Borenstein
    Arved Sandstrom, Jun 10, 2010
    #11
  12. On 06/10/2010 06:42 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    >> Almost everyone will not have Windows. And almost everyone does not have
    >> Windows.


    I'm pretty sure most mobile phones lack Windows.

    --
    Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not
    tried it. -- Donald E. Knuth
    Joshua Cranmer, Jun 11, 2010
    #12
  13. Joshua Cranmer wrote:
    > On 06/10/2010 06:42 PM, Arved Sandstrom wrote:
    >>> Almost everyone will not have Windows. And almost everyone does not have
    >>> Windows.

    >
    > I'm pretty sure most mobile phones lack Windows.
    >

    Well, OK, fair enough. But I was thinking of devices that would have
    screens large enough to be useful for the kind of application being
    discussed, and the OS's that would be running the apps that populate
    those displays. "Desktop" or server OS's, IOW...not smartphone or tablet
    OS's.

    AHS
    --
    It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
    ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
    ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
    which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
    -- Nathaniel Borenstein
    Arved Sandstrom, Jun 11, 2010
    #13
  14. JC wrote:
    >> He may not be a DBA, but if has been writing SQL statements for the
    >> app then he would know some of Oracles ways of doing things.
    >>
    >> Arne
    >>

    >
    > I dream in SQL ... :)
    >
    > Even though I'm not a DBA, from time to time I have to do DBA oriented
    > things. Since the system is not highly sophisticated this is never been too
    > much of a problem. I'd say the most important thing I do along these lines
    > is monitor the size of the tablespaces, how fast they are growing. Maybe a
    > few times in the beginning I had to resize them; but I pretty much have a
    > handle on it now. By law we only have to keep ten years worth of data. So
    > every night I have a routine that deletes anything older than ten years
    > (actually I go ten years and six months just to be safe). We started doing
    > this (deleting old data) about a year or so ago. It helps keep the size of
    > the database more stable (except whenever we get new contracts that are big
    > clients which has happened twice ... once with the state of Alabama and more
    > recently with West Virginia). Anyway, what I worry about is with the
    > deleting and adding of data on a consistent basis whether something funky
    > will happen some day like file corruption, fragmentation, etc. Things which
    > I really don't know how to fix of have any experience with.
    > -JC


    I should note, I certainly wasn't casting any aspersions on you by
    emphasizing that you said you're not a DBA. Neither am I. I can get
    basic DBA things done on a number of RDBMS's like Oracle, SQL Server and
    PostgreSQL, and for the databases you use I suspect you're at the same
    level as myself.

    I was simply considering the fact that I myself don't have a great deal
    of time invested in learning how to do these basic DBA tasks. Also,
    there are a lot of resources available for any de facto DBA, for almost
    any widely used RDBMS. So switching from one to another, and acquiring
    the basic skill set that you have for your version of Oracle on another
    RDBMS, is not a large investment of time, IMO.

    To reiterate, I am _not_ suggesting that it's a trivial thing for a
    _true_ DBA on RDBMS #1 to acquire the equivalent skills on RDBMS #2.

    AHS

    --
    It should be noted that no ethically-trained software engineer would
    ever consent to write a DestroyBaghdad procedure. Basic professional
    ethics would instead require him to write a DestroyCity procedure, to
    which Baghdad could be given as a parameter.
    -- Nathaniel Borenstein
    Arved Sandstrom, Jun 11, 2010
    #14
  15. Arved Sandstrom

    David Kerber Guest

    In article <k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, says...
    >
    > David Kerber wrote:
    > > In article <4c1033b3$0$278$>,
    > > says...
    > >
    > > ...
    > >
    > >> Given that he has Java, JDBC and Oracle experience then he should
    > >> have at least some advantages going Java instead of .NET.

    > >
    > > Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    > > locks you into a windows-based network.

    >
    > The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
    > case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
    > liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
    > majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do J2SE/J2EE
    > on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a
    > majority - of other applications that have been on Windows. So it may be
    > a point of pride that your app in theory could run on many OS's, but
    > since almost everyone will have Windows who really cares?


    This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
    the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
    out there.

    D
    David Kerber, Jun 11, 2010
    #15
  16. Arved Sandstrom

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 11-06-2010 12:45, JC wrote:
    > Actually, everything I do on Oracle I learned on my own. And I think this
    > was only possible due to a limited amount of formal training on Sybase and
    > T/SQL.


    In which case SQLServer may not be that difficult, because SQLServer
    also uses T-SQL although today Microsoft's and Sybase's dialects
    has somewhat diverged.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 12, 2010
    #16
  17. Arved Sandstrom

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 11-06-2010 08:28, David Kerber wrote:
    > In article<k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, says...
    >> David Kerber wrote:
    >>> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    >>> locks you into a windows-based network.

    >>
    >> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
    >> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
    >> liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
    >> majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do J2SE/J2EE
    >> on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair bit - often a
    >> majority - of other applications that have been on Windows. So it may be
    >> a point of pride that your app in theory could run on many OS's, but
    >> since almost everyone will have Windows who really cares?

    >
    > This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
    > the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
    > out there.


    It is a rather big minority.

    Java is not exactly Microsofts backyard, but a recent study showed
    that Java EE projects was deployed:

    Windows 57%
    Redhat & Centos 35%
    Suse 12%
    Other Linux 16%
    Solaris 18%
    AIX 14%
    HP-UX 5%
    Other 7%

    (it adds up to more than 100% because some projects
    targets multiple platforms)

    For .NET the Windows percentage is approx. 100%.

    That is a lot of Windows servers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Servers

    gives the same picture.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 12, 2010
    #17
  18. Arved Sandstrom

    Arne Vajhøj Guest

    On 11-06-2010 06:57, wrote:
    > Arved Sandstrom<> writes:
    >> My statement was anecdotal, but I'm prepared to guess - damned if I
    >> know why I believe something this outlandish - that a whole bunch of
    >> people out there...maybe even a majority...use Windows. But if you
    >> think different that's your prerogative.

    >
    > Here is something factual.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_server
    > http://news.netcraft.com/archives/2010/01/
    >
    > Vendor Product Web Sites Hosted (millions) Percent
    > Apache Apache 111 54%
    > Microsoft IIS 50 24%
    > Igor Sysoev nginx 16 8%
    > Google GWS 15 7%
    > lighttpd lighttpd 1 0.46%


    Well - 24% only runs on Windows and 62% can run on Windows, so
    you have proved that Windows is used on 24-86% of web servers.

    I think that confirms Arveds claims.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 12, 2010
    #18
  19. On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:56:59 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:

    > On 11-06-2010 08:28, David Kerber wrote:
    >> In article<k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, says...
    >>> David Kerber wrote:
    >>>> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    >>>> locks you into a windows-based network.
    >>>
    >>> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
    >>> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
    >>> liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
    >>> majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do
    >>> J2SE/J2EE on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair
    >>> bit - often a majority - of other applications that have been on
    >>> Windows. So it may be a point of pride that your app in theory could
    >>> run on many OS's, but since almost everyone will have Windows who
    >>> really cares?

    >>
    >> This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
    >> the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
    >> out there.

    >
    > It is a rather big minority.
    >
    > Java is not exactly Microsofts backyard, but a recent study showed that
    > Java EE projects was deployed:
    >
    > Windows 57%
    > Redhat & Centos 35%
    > Suse 12%
    > Other Linux 16%
    > Solaris 18%
    > AIX 14%
    > HP-UX 5%
    > Other 7%
    >
    > (it adds up to more than 100% because some projects targets multiple
    > platforms)
    >
    > For .NET the Windows percentage is approx. 100%.
    >
    > That is a lot of Windows servers.
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Servers
    >
    > gives the same picture.
    >


    That doesn't altogether tally with webserver usage:

    Apache 54%
    Microsoft IIS 24%
    Igor Sysoev nginx 8%
    Google GWS 7%
    lighttpd 0.46%

    unless there are a *lot* more Apache webservers running under Windows
    than I've always heard there are.


    --
    martin@ | Martin Gregorie
    gregorie. | Essex, UK
    org |
    Martin Gregorie, Jun 12, 2010
    #19
  20. On 12-06-2010 11:04, Martin Gregorie wrote:
    > On Fri, 11 Jun 2010 20:56:59 -0400, Arne Vajhøj wrote:
    >> On 11-06-2010 08:28, David Kerber wrote:
    >>> In article<k2dQn.6548$z%6.2043@edtnps83>, says...
    >>>> David Kerber wrote:
    >>>>> Not to mention that those are all cross-platform options. while .NET
    >>>>> locks you into a windows-based network.
    >>>>
    >>>> The way Mono is moving along that's not strictly speaking true. In any
    >>>> case, being "locked into" a Windows-based network is not exactly a
    >>>> liability, not now and not for a few more decades. As it is, the
    >>>> majority of fellow developers and clients that I deal with do
    >>>> J2SE/J2EE on Windows. Every job I've had there's always been a fair
    >>>> bit - often a majority - of other applications that have been on
    >>>> Windows. So it may be a point of pride that your app in theory could
    >>>> run on many OS's, but since almost everyone will have Windows who
    >>>> really cares?
    >>>
    >>> This is certainly true on the front (end-user) end, but much less so on
    >>> the server side. Windows still makes up only a minority of the servers
    >>> out there.

    >>
    >> It is a rather big minority.
    >>
    >> Java is not exactly Microsofts backyard, but a recent study showed that
    >> Java EE projects was deployed:
    >>
    >> Windows 57%
    >> Redhat& Centos 35%
    >> Suse 12%
    >> Other Linux 16%
    >> Solaris 18%
    >> AIX 14%
    >> HP-UX 5%
    >> Other 7%
    >>
    >> (it adds up to more than 100% because some projects targets multiple
    >> platforms)
    >>
    >> For .NET the Windows percentage is approx. 100%.
    >>
    >> That is a lot of Windows servers.
    >>
    >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems#Servers
    >>
    >> gives the same picture.

    >
    > That doesn't altogether tally with webserver usage:
    >
    > Apache 54%
    > Microsoft IIS 24%
    > Igor Sysoev nginx 8%
    > Google GWS 7%
    > lighttpd 0.46%
    >
    > unless there are a *lot* more Apache webservers running under Windows
    > than I've always heard there are.


    There are Apache servers on Windows.

    But I don't understand why you think web server platform
    should relate to either Java EE platform or overall
    server platform.

    Arne
    Arne Vajhøj, Jun 12, 2010
    #20
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