Re: Outsoursing Hardware verification

Discussion in 'VHDL' started by Rajesh Bawa, Jul 5, 2003.

  1. Rajesh Bawa

    Rajesh Bawa Guest

    Hello,

    I pesonnally think that hardware desining can be outsourced (with
    correct spec). Once designed there is a lot of responsibility on people
    to ensure that the designed hardwrea meets the specification.

    any commnts most welcomed.

    Rajesh

    Morris Dovey wrote:

    > ben cohen wrote:
    >
    >> <And in some cases, it is better that the verification team be an
    >> automonous entity. I've done a bunch of reasearch on verification,
    >> and there's good things about 'pure' verification environments. (And
    >> frankly, most designers write terrible test benches! I'm sure Ben
    >> will back me up on this one. :)>

    >
    >
    > (I think I lost some attribution somewhere)
    >
    > It would seem that autonomy is an almost necessary condition for
    > verification. All of my verification work has been done on (what was
    > intended to be) production silicon/boards; with nothing to guide me but
    > a product spec document. My job was, of course, to determine if the
    > implementation behavior matched the spec; and to communicate mismatching
    > behaviors to the client. Once a problem was detected I met with members
    > of the design team to discuss the problem. Sometimes it was a matter of
    > intending one thing but saying another in the spec, sometimes a
    > misunderstanding of the spec on my part, and sometimes it was a genuine
    > bug.
    >
    > The designers seemed to be afflicted with an automatic denial response
    > ("No bugs in /my/ design!") I can confirm that people with real genius
    > for logic design frequently display a real lack of talent for writing
    > test code - especially test code that really stresses their design. I
    > just love being told that my test programs are /too/ fast for the
    > hardware :)
    >
    > On the other hand, I've been fortunate in working with designers who
    > were unbelievably cooperative and helpful. These qualities are major
    > cost reducers and time savers in the verification process.
    >
    > Note that my niche has not been in hardware design; but is rather in
    > testing embedded [whatever]. If you'd like a glimpse into my most recent
    > such project, there's a thumbnail sketch at:
    > http://www/iedu.com/mrd/philips.txt
     
    Rajesh Bawa, Jul 5, 2003
    #1
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  2. Rajesh Bawa

    cfk Guest

    "Rajesh Bawa" <> wrote in message
    news:3f068a10$0$12438$...
    > I pesonnally think that hardware desining can be outsourced (with
    > correct spec). Once designed there is a lot of responsibility on people
    > to ensure that the designed hardwrea meets the specification.
    >
    > any commnts most welcomed.
    >

    Well, the key is communication. It is sometimes difficult to get a consensus
    from the next office, much less from a different county, or <uggh> a
    different country.

    Writing specifications that are meaningful, understandable, unambiguous and
    testable will make any project go more smoothly. And that really doesnt have
    much to do with whether or not the team is local or not.

    However, to be the devils advocate, it is a whole lot easier if it is a
    local stroll to the next office or building instead of the next continent.

    Charles
     
    cfk, Jul 5, 2003
    #2
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  3. Rajesh Bawa

    Prasanna Guest

    "cfk" <> wrote in message news:<52INa.67$>...
    > "Rajesh Bawa" <> wrote in message
    > news:3f068a10$0$12438$...
    > > I pesonnally think that hardware desining can be outsourced (with
    > > correct spec). Once designed there is a lot of responsibility on people
    > > to ensure that the designed hardwrea meets the specification.
    > >
    > > any commnts most welcomed.
    > >

    > Well, the key is communication. It is sometimes difficult to get a consensus
    > from the next office, much less from a different county, or <uggh> a
    > different country.
    >
    > Writing specifications that are meaningful, understandable, unambiguous and
    > testable will make any project go more smoothly. And that really doesnt have
    > much to do with whether or not the team is local or not.
    >
    > However, to be the devils advocate, it is a whole lot easier if it is a
    > local stroll to the next office or building instead of the next continent.
    >
    > Charles


    My view here is purely technical and not political... :)

    I have found when designs are fed to totally unknown team (contract
    team), they ask questions that sometimes you wonder why you ever did a
    design like that.
    For eg: One of the legacy designs that needed verification was given
    to another company whose team was excellent. They asked, "why do you
    need 2 embedded processors in there. Cant you modify the design and
    utilise one instead of two and eliminate all those complex bridges".
    The idea was good and was implemented on next version. I have seen
    some architectures are basically flawed and you get to know only when
    you present such a design as a black box to good verification
    engineers. One of the designs actually could not do continous back to
    back packets and had a buffer overflow problem bcoz' of that. This was
    found during design review presentation during handover. Anyways the
    advantage I mention here is, "your verification team in your company
    may not be looking at the design from the angle other company looks at
    your design".

    Good luck...
     
    Prasanna, Aug 5, 2003
    #3
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