Re: Please critic this page

Discussion in 'HTML' started by Sam Hughes, Aug 8, 2003.

  1. Sam Hughes

    Sam Hughes Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in news:IMCXa.22943
    $:

    >
    >> 11- Studies (in speed reading) have shown that reading text from left

    to
    >> right is easier when the text is left-aligned, not when it's centered.

    I
    >> don't have references on this right now but I do remember reading that
    >> left-aligned text was easier to parse, read.
    >> "Centered and right-justified text blocks. Centered and right-

    justified
    >> text blocks are difficult to read. (...)
    >> Left-justified text is the most legible option for Web pages because

    the
    >> left margin is even and predictable and the right margin is irregular.
    >> Unlike justified text, left justification requires no adjustment to

    word
    >> spacing; the inequities in spacing fall at the end of the lines. The
    >> resulting "ragged" right margin adds variety and interest to the page
    >> without interfering with legibility."
    >> http://www.webstyleguide.com/type/align.html

    >
    >
    > www.yahoo.com
    > www.google.com
    >
    > are centered aren´t they?


    Personally, I think that your site is fine, in terms of the centering of
    the text, because although the content is in the center of the page, the
    text itself _is_ left-justified.

    However, I think that the margins on the left and right are a bit too
    big...

    Your site and that page, in general, though, seems unreadable, with ugly
    colors and little contrast.
    Sam Hughes, Aug 8, 2003
    #1
    1. Advertising


  2. >
    > Personally, I think that your site is fine, in terms of the centering of
    > the text, because although the content is in the center of the page, the
    > text itself _is_ left-justified.
    >
    > However, I think that the margins on the left and right are a bit too
    > big...



    Please, compare the margins on the left and on the right between
    www.yahoo.com
    www.google.com and www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html
    Do you think that the margins on the left and right of the sites
    www.yahoo.com and
    www.google.com are too big?

    > Your site and that page, in general, though, seems unreadable, with ugly
    > colors and little contrast.


    Let`s talk on the page www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html now
    and not about the whole site because there are many colors on the different
    pages just now.
    Which contrast do you mean? Between the colors? Do you have examples of
    pages with good colors and good contrast to compare?

    - -
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)



    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/alloggisvezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Aug 9, 2003
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Sam Hughes

    Sam Hughes Guest

    "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in
    news:5VXYa.23427$:

    >
    >>
    >> Personally, I think that your site is fine, in terms of the centering
    >> of the text, because although the content is in the center of the
    >> page, the text itself _is_ left-justified.
    >>
    >> However, I think that the margins on the left and right are a bit too
    >> big...

    >
    >
    > Please, compare the margins on the left and on the right between
    > www.yahoo.com
    > www.google.com and www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html
    > Do you think that the margins on the left and right of the sites
    > www.yahoo.com and
    > www.google.com are too big?


    First of all, I do not see why you arbitrarily set yahoo.com or google.com
    as standards to follow.

    Also, there are a few differences between yahoo.com, google.com, and your
    page.

    Yahoo.com's problem is that it is designed with a fixed width of
    approximately 800 pixels, or slightly less, to fit browsers with
    scrollbars. When the browser gets resized to a small size, a horizontal
    scrollbar appears, which is trouble.

    Google.com, on the other hand, has large margins because it has minimal
    content on the first page. One does not have to scroll down when they
    visit Google. Also, all of Google's pages that _do_ have larger amounts of
    information happen to take up nearly the entire width of the browser.

    Your page happens to have the largest margin yet. According to my
    estimates, fifty percent of my browser window's width consists of margins
    or padding when viewing that page. If I resize my browser window to a
    small size, at least the content is still viewable, but it always uses only
    50% (or slightly less) of the available width. That is inefficient.


    >> Your site and that page, in general, though, seems unreadable, with
    >> ugly colors and little contrast.

    >
    > Let`s talk on the page
    > www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html now and not about the
    > whole site because there are many colors on the different pages just
    > now. Which contrast do you mean? Between the colors? Do you have
    > examples of pages with good colors and good contrast to compare?


    I would say that black on white, black on light gray, black on some light
    color, or a light color on a dark background would be good contrast. Your
    site seems tacky. Also, you have black with that blue shade of
    highlighting with yellow around it. The highlighting looks really ugly!

    But back to contrast. That is, contrast of the text on the background.
    And the large contrasts between the background colors, which occurs every
    few lines. A user has to jump from black on yellow to blue on yellow to
    black on blue... It makes reading troublesome and tiresome.

    Also, some of your hyperlinks are blue on blue, and some are blue on green.
    Others are blue on brown, and blue on red.

    Blue on blue is bad because of the contrast. Blue on green is also bad,
    because of the contrast, which gets especially bad for people with blue-
    green colorblindness (which is very common). Blue on brown has bad
    contrast between the colors, making it difficult to read. Blue on red is
    plain ugly :).

    The combination of little contrast in the text on background with big
    differences between the background colors, and the user having to jump
    between those background colors when reading, is what causes the problem.
    Sam Hughes, Aug 9, 2003
    #3
  4. "Sam Hughes" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:Xns93D1F367A48Esamreid@130.133.1.4...
    > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in
    > news:5VXYa.23427$:
    >
    > >
    > >>
    > >> Personally, I think that your site is fine, in terms of the centering
    > >> of the text, because although the content is in the center of the
    > >> page, the text itself _is_ left-justified.
    > >>
    > >> However, I think that the margins on the left and right are a bit too
    > >> big...

    > >
    > >
    > > Please, compare the margins on the left and on the right between
    > > www.yahoo.com
    > > www.google.com and www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html
    > > Do you think that the margins on the left and right of the sites
    > > www.yahoo.com and
    > > www.google.com are too big?

    >
    > First of all, I do not see why you arbitrarily set yahoo.com or google.com
    > as standards to follow.




    I see www.yahoo.com and www.google.com as two very known sites which is
    visited by many users.
    > Also, there are a few differences between yahoo.com, google.com, and your
    > page.
    >
    > Yahoo.com's problem is that it is designed with a fixed width of
    > approximately 800 pixels, or slightly less, to fit browsers with
    > scrollbars. When the browser gets resized to a small size, a horizontal
    > scrollbar appears, which is trouble.
    >
    > Google.com, on the other hand, has large margins because it has minimal
    > content on the first page. One does not have to scroll down when they
    > visit Google. Also, all of Google's pages that _do_ have larger amounts

    of
    > information happen to take up nearly the entire width of the browser.
    >
    > Your page happens to have the largest margin yet. According to my
    > estimates, fifty percent of my browser window's width consists of margins
    > or padding when viewing that page. If I resize my browser window to a
    > small size, at least the content is still viewable, but it always uses

    only
    > 50% (or slightly less) of the available width. That is inefficient.


    I do not understand why you see that as inefficiency.

    > >> Your site and that page, in general, though, seems unreadable, with
    > >> ugly colors and little contrast.

    > >
    > > Let`s talk on the page
    > > www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html now and not about the
    > > whole site because there are many colors on the different pages just
    > > now. Which contrast do you mean? Between the colors? Do you have
    > > examples of pages with good colors and good contrast to compare?

    >
    > I would say that black on white, black on light gray, black on some light
    > color, or a light color on a dark background would be good contrast. Your
    > site seems tacky. Also, you have black with that blue shade of
    > highlighting with yellow around it. The highlighting looks really ugly!



    Black on white has contrast but the white is a very light color on the
    screen, black on some light color would be ok.
    What about the background color on the page
    www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html
    and www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/valkommen.html ?
    > But back to contrast. That is, contrast of the text on the background.
    > And the large contrasts between the background colors, which occurs every
    > few lines. A user has to jump from black on yellow to blue on yellow to
    > black on blue... It makes reading troublesome and tiresome.



    On the other hand ( as user) I think that the same color on all the pages
    of a website can be little boring.


    - -
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)



    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/alloggisvezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Aug 9, 2003
    #4
  5. Sam Hughes

    Isofarro Guest

    Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:

    >
    > "Sam Hughes" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:Xns93D1F367A48Esamreid@130.133.1.4...
    >> "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in
    >> news:5VXYa.23427$:
    >>
    >> > Please, compare the margins on the left and on the right between
    >> > www.yahoo.com
    >> > www.google.com and www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien.html
    >> > Do you think that the margins on the left and right of the sites
    >> > www.yahoo.com and
    >> > www.google.com are too big?

    >>
    >> First of all, I do not see why you arbitrarily set yahoo.com or
    >> google.com as standards to follow.

    >
    > I see www.yahoo.com and www.google.com as two very known sites which is
    > visited by many users.


    And is that largely because of the size of their margins, or perhaps they
    offer content the visitor wishes to see?


    --
    Iso.
    FAQs: http://html-faq.com http://alt-html.org http://allmyfaqs.com/
    Recommended Hosting: http://www.affordablehost.com/
    Web Standards: http://www.webstandards.org/
    Isofarro, Aug 9, 2003
    #5
  6. "Isofarro" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:...
    > Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:
    >
    > > a site which has many
    > > visitors is usually also well designed isn´t it?

    >
    > No
    >
    > > Or do you suggest perhaps that www.yahoo.come is not good designed?

    >
    > http://www.happycog.com/lectures/dwws/6.html
    >
    > --
    > Iso.


    Your link was interesting.
    If there are sites which are not well designed but still have very many
    visitors ( you can visit www.alexa.com and check up Yahoo´s rate)
    the question is whether good webdesign is not something necessary and how
    useful or useless it is for a commercial site to get more visitors.


    - -
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)



    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/alloggisvezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Aug 9, 2003
    #6
  7. Sam Hughes

    Sam Hughes Guest

    Toby A Inkster <> wrote in
    news:p:

    > Sam Hughes wrote:
    >
    >> Blue on green is also bad,
    >> because of the contrast, which gets especially bad for people with blue-
    >> green colorblindness (which is very common).

    >
    > Huh? I think you mean red on green. Red/green colourblindness is the most
    > common form[1]. Blue/yellow is probably the next.
    >
    > [1] Approximately one in six men is red/green colourblind (although to
    > varying extents)


    That still makes blue-green colorblindness very common.

    Do a search within this document for
    "Inherited Color Perception Impairments" and read that paragraph:
    http://www.abledata.com/text2/NIRE/Color_Blind.htm

    Red-green indeed happens to be the most common form; blue-green is second,
    also very common.
    Sam Hughes, Aug 10, 2003
    #7
  8. "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> skrev i meddelandet
    news:G0pZa.19361$...
    >
    > "Sam Hughes" <> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:Xns93D17881A50Esamreid@130.133.1.4...
    > > "Luigi Donatello Asero" <> wrote in news:IMCXa.22943
    > > $:
    > >
    > > >
    > > >> 11- Studies (in speed reading) have shown that reading text from left

    > > to
    > > >> right is easier when the text is left-aligned, not when it's

    centered.
    > > I
    > > >> don't have references on this right now but I do remember reading

    that
    > > >> left-aligned text was easier to parse, read.
    > > >> "Centered and right-justified text blocks. Centered and right-

    > > justified
    > > >> text blocks are difficult to read. (...)
    > > >> Left-justified text is the most legible option for Web pages because

    > > the
    > > >> left margin is even and predictable and the right margin is

    irregular.
    > > >> Unlike justified text, left justification requires no adjustment to

    > > word
    > > >> spacing; the inequities in spacing fall at the end of the lines. The
    > > >> resulting "ragged" right margin adds variety and interest to the page
    > > >> without interfering with legibility."
    > > >> http://www.webstyleguide.com/type/align.html
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > www.yahoo.com
    > > > www.google.com
    > > >
    > > > are centered aren´t they?

    > >
    > > Personally, I think that your site is fine, in terms of the centering of
    > > the text, because although the content is in the center of the page, the
    > > text itself _is_ left-justified.

    >
    >
    >
    > Can you tell me why Google placed just
    > www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/test.html which is centered ( see cached
    > version) instead of www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien which is
    > not? Does that mean that Google prefers the centered version for some
    > reason?
    >
    >
    > - -
    > Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)
    >
    >
    >
    > http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/alloggisvezia.html
    > http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html



    Or may-be Google prefers the colors which I used on that version.


    - -
    Luigi ( un italiano che vive in Svezia)



    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/alloggisvezia.html
    http://www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/it/svezia.html
    Luigi Donatello Asero, Aug 10, 2003
    #8
  9. Luigi Donatello Asero wrote:
    >> Can you tell me why Google placed just
    >> www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/test.html which is centered ( see cached
    >> version) instead of www.scaiecat-spa-gigi.com/sv/boendeiitalien which is
    >> not? Does that mean that Google prefers the centered version for some
    >> reason?

    >
    > Or may-be Google prefers the colors which I used on that version.


    I think you'll find that Google doesn't visit your site every day, hence
    has an older version.

    --
    Toby A Inkster BSc (Hons) ARCS | mailto: | pgp:0x6A2A7D39
    aim:inka80 | icq:6622880 | yahoo:tobyink | jabber:
    http://www.goddamn.co.uk/tobyink/ | "You've got spam!"
    playing://(nothing)
    Toby A Inkster, Aug 10, 2003
    #9
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